Empires and revolutions - Historical Forum RP V2: Blame Brazil for all our problems. - Games

I meant to players.

What the fuck happened in the US? I was not paying attention.

Also technically wasn't it [i]you[/i] that did most of the invading into the Balkans? [editline]2nd February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=wulfe8857;34521784]What the fuck happened in the US? I was not paying attention.[/QUOTE] AUFC collapsed into Canada, the United States, and many little confederate nations. The United States pissed off the Confederate Nations, which were people protected by Canada, who was rebelling against Mexico and being helped by Columbia, which declared war against Mexico to take back Canada and the United States because NO ONE PICKS ON THE YANKEES. [editline]2nd February 2012[/editline] Oh. Seed. You did a lovely job on the map but you got a bit of it wrong. Canada owns all those islands off the Eastern coast of Florida. The Jamaicas and Bahamas and all that. And that other island waaaaay out in the middle of the Atlantic fuck if I know what it is.

The Arabians want to invade the African territory I'm liberating next turn. Looks like I'll have to deal with more bloody war.

To be fair I asked for you to cede them to me quite nicely first. And I'll say here what I sent to you via PM They're not European nations and they shouldn't be governed by European nations. They're Islamic states. Islam should govern Islam. Not Christianity.

[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;34521782]I meant to players.[/QUOTE] Apart from Spain, Italy and the Balkan States. The latter having formerly been Austrian possessions.

[QUOTE=UrbanMachismo;34521912]To be fair I asked for you to cede them to me quite nicely first. And I'll say here what I sent to you via PM They're not European nations and they shouldn't be governed by European nations. They're Islamic states. Islam should govern Islam. Not Christianity.[/QUOTE] Yes, but like I told you, I have no interest in liberating them from one imperialist rule, just to have them annexed into another. I have no intentions of governing them, but as of next turn, they are free, secular, socialist states in the alliance and under the protection of the International. If you want to take them by force, then you'll have to deal with me. It is my suggestion that you not try it. What you are doing is trying to take advantage of freed nations, that I didn't have to free in the first place.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;34522020]Apart from Spain, Italy and the Balkan States. The latter having formerly been Austrian possessions.[/QUOTE] Which I want back. Seed I suggest we break the USSR into smaller states like the allies did to Germany after WW2, but probably more than just east and west. We need to ensure that this won't happen again. At least not from them.

[QUOTE=Skullivan21;34522062]Which I want back.[/QUOTE] I accidentally edited out what I replied. Basically, we can work out borders if you want, but I'm not giving the Balkans to you. [quote]Oh. Seed. You did a lovely job on the map but you got a bit of it wrong. Canada owns all those islands off the Eastern coast of Florida. The Jamaicas and Bahamas and all that. And that other island waaaaay out in the middle of the Atlantic fuck if I know what it is.[/QUOTE] I'll fix it.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];34522040']Yes, but like I told you, I have no interest in liberating them from one imperialist rule, just to have them annexed into another. I have no intentions of governing them, but as of next turn, they are free, secular, socialist states in the alliance and under the protection of the International. If you want to take them by force, then you'll have to deal with me. It is my suggestion that you not try it. What you are doing is trying to take advantage of freed nations, that I didn't have to free in the first place.[/QUOTE] Except I'm NOT an Imperialist Ruler. Imperialism is defined as "the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination." An example of Imperialism is a Christian nation ruling over Islamic people. Islamic nations ruling over Islamic people is NOT Imperialism. Especially not with the social work I'm doing. Or, better, if the USSR controlled land in South America. That's Imperialism defined as “the practice, the theory and the attitudes of a dominating metropolitan centre ruling a distant territory"

[QUOTE=Skullivan21;34522062]Which I want back. Seed I suggest we break the USSR into smaller states like the allies did to Germany after WW2, but probably more than just east and west. We need to ensure that this won't happen again. At least not from them.[/QUOTE] I say we do that too. [editline]2nd February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=UrbanMachismo;34522160]Except I'm NOT an Imperialist Ruler. Imperialism is defined as "the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination." An example of Imperialism is a Christian nation ruling over Islamic people. Islamic nations ruling over Islamic people is NOT Imperialism. Especially not with the social work I'm doing. Or, better, if the USSR controlled land in South America. That's Imperialism defined as “the practice, the theory and the attitudes of a dominating metropolitan centre ruling a distant territory"[/QUOTE] They are not ruled under a Christian nation, they are ruled under themselves, and the USSR was secular.

I don't think Austria should be punished. Give him back the Balkans. They were his until the USSR instigated rebellion. An instigated rebellion is NOT the same as a natural rebellion. As for the USSR, split it up into its' constituent states. France, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Libya, Algeria, and Niger. Make them COMPLETELY autonomous and NO alliances between them and Seed Eater's nation. Limit their military like in the Versailles Treaty, but not in a way to destroy their economy and encourage the rise of a Hitler-esque leader.

Oh, and we should kid nap Hitler when he is born.

[QUOTE=UrbanMachismo;34522160]Except I'm NOT an Imperialist Ruler. Imperialism is defined as "the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination." An example of Imperialism is a Christian nation ruling over Islamic people. Islamic nations ruling over Islamic people is NOT Imperialism. Especially not with the social work I'm doing. Or, better, if the USSR controlled land in South America. That's Imperialism defined as “the practice, the theory and the attitudes of a dominating metropolitan centre ruling a distant territory"[/QUOTE] The primary mode of imperialism, and even the source of the word, is from empire. You are the Arabian Empire. From my point of view, you owning and controlling land, especially (now) free land, or land with a different culture or population, is imperialism. Same reason why I'm dissolving the USSR and don't intend to return the Balkans to Austrian rule. As far as I'm concerned, you owning North African land that has its own culture, government, and as of next turn its own freedoms and sovereignty is as much imperialism as the Soviets ruling it. And quit pulling that "because I'm an Islamic state it's not imperialism" stuff, because it is. The cultures of Arabia and North Africa are notably different. There's no difference between what you're doing and the French annexing Spain under the banner of "mutual Christiandom." "Obviously because we're in the same general region and are both Christian nations, it makes sense that I should annex you and control your government and culture and people, right Spain?"

No. No. That'd make it worse. Let him into the Art Academy. Let his artistic talents flourish. DON'T stifle him. In fact sponsor him by the state. He was Austrian. He was born in 1889. Won't be long.

Whatever happens I plan to have what is rightfully mine once again.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];34522258']The primary mode of imperialism, and even the source of the word, is from empire. You are the Arabian Empire. From my point of view, you owning and controlling land, especially (now) free land, or land with a different culture or population, is imperialism. Same reason why I'm dissolving the USSR and don't intend to return the Balkans to Austrian rule. [highlight]Except they're NOT different culture and population wise. They're the same as my people. We're even Socialist. And 'Empire' is just a name. It sounds nice.[/highlight] As far as I'm concerned, you owning North African land that has its own culture, government, and as of next turn its own freedoms and sovereignty is as much imperialism as the Soviets ruling it. [highlight]Again, not true. Same culture as us, only slightly modified by CHRISTIAN rule. Still core Islam though. Still core Muslim culture. Same as in Yemen.[/highlight] And quit pulling that "because I'm an Islamic state it's not imperialism" stuff, because it is. The cultures of Arabia and North Africa are notably different. There's no difference between what you're doing and the French annexing Spain under the banner of "mutual Christiandom." "Obviously because we're in the same general region and are both Christian nations, it makes sense that I should annex you and control your government and culture and people, right Spain?"[/QUOTE] And that's also not true. During that era, Spain was Catholic, not Christian. 76% of Spain is Catholic.

[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;34522216]I don't think Austria should be punished. Give him back the Balkans. They were his until the USSR instigated rebellion. An instigated rebellion is NOT the same as a natural rebellion. As for the USSR, split it up into its' constituent states. France, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Libya, Algeria, and Niger. Make them COMPLETELY autonomous and NO alliances between them and Seed Eater's nation. Limit their military like in the Versailles Treaty, but not in a way to destroy their economy and encourage the rise of a Hitler-esque leader.[/QUOTE] It's a matter of ideology. Austrians have no place in the Balkans. It has nothing to do with punishing him. I'll edit my turn to include a referendum to the Balkan provinces on the idea of being annexed by Austria. Those that have a majority approval of the idea will be given to the Austrians. And currently, the USSR will be divided into: USSR (France) Italy Spain Catalonia Belgium Netherlands Luxembourg Corsica and Sardina Vatican City Tunisia Libya Algeria All these nations will have troops in the Soviet army returned to their nation's military, receive a loan to get the economy on track individually, and will join the International as socialist nations friendly to the USSR, Swiss, and West Germans, but completely independent. I will not be controlling nor influencing their politics or actions, beyond adoption of the principles of the alliance. If any one of them acts aggressively, then we as Europe can decide how to deal with it. This way, other players can now join as those nations as well. [editline]2nd February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=UrbanMachismo;34522301]And that's also not true. During that era, Spain was Catholic, not Christian. 76% of Spain is Catholic.[/QUOTE] I'm talking now, in game. They weren't under christian rule, the Soviets were secular. There is a notable culture difference. you still don't have a right to own the land and invade their sovereignty. Also, I'd like the Europeans to create an alliance to my alliance, so we can work together and not against each other. A sort of European diplomatic council.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];34522312'] I'll edit my turn to include a referendum to the Balkan provinces on the idea of being annexed by Austria. Those that have a majority approval of the idea will be given to the Austrians.[/QUOTE] I don't think you fully understand my intentions... I will be attaining the former members of the old Empire. And they will become fully functioning members of the Federation. Or they will become my personal penal legions...

1. You forgot Niger 2. I don't think the nations should be in "The International". There should be fewer ties between you and them. Otherwise the same thing might happen again. 3. Austria spanned all of the Balkans before, as I said before I'll say again, an INSTIGATED Rebellion. It should be returned to them.

[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;34522362]1. You forgot Niger 2. I don't think the nations should be in "The International". There should be fewer ties between you and them. Otherwise the same thing might happen again. 3. Austria spanned all of the Balkans before, as I said before I'll say again, an INSTIGATED Rebellion. It should be returned to them.[/QUOTE] 1. I did. 2. It's an alliance that keeps all members in check with guiding principles. No single entity will control it. A council with other European nations will keep be used to balance its influence. 3. Talking with UCEF now.

No but the most powerful entity will have the biggest influence. You will be that most powerful entity. Therefore, regardless of whether or not you mean to, you WILL control it. The 'International' should not exist. Let the nations alone. No alliance between them. Help them get on their feet sure but otherwise leave them be.

[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;34522460]No but the most powerful entity will have the biggest influence. You will be that most powerful entity. Therefore, regardless of whether or not you mean to, you WILL control it. The 'International' should not exist. Let the nations alone. No alliance between them. Help them get on their feet sure but otherwise leave them be.[/QUOTE] I'm not sticking as the USSR, I'm returning to poor and weak West Germany as soon as we get Europe settled down. I won't have shit for influence. What I'm doing now is creating several weakened states from one powerful one. In fact, I'm more or less handing power in Europe to the Republican Germans. All the International is is an alliance that will: 1) put these nations under the protection of each other, and hopefully of Europe as a whole. 2) prevent these nations from acting offensively or pre-emptively. 3) create an open relation between each other and hopefully with Europe as a whole. 4) over time weaken these nations through decentralization, including the dissolution of their national militaries. It will also allow for the Europeans to more easily communicate with all of these nations together, as opposed to individually, preventing any sort of splintering or factionalism in Europe.

[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;34522460]No but the most powerful entity will have the biggest influence. You will be that most powerful entity. Therefore, regardless of whether or not you mean to, you WILL control it. The 'International' should not exist. Let the nations alone. No alliance between them. Help them get on their feet sure but otherwise leave them be.[/QUOTE] Just pm'd u for the world in balance thread

[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;34522362]1. You forgot Niger 2. I don't think the nations should be in "The International". There should be fewer ties between you and them. Otherwise the same thing might happen again. 3. Austria spanned all of the Balkans before, as I said before I'll say again, an INSTIGATED Rebellion. It should be returned to them.[/QUOTE] Also, The Third International was the Comintern, I see what seed is doing.

Yes I get notifications thanks wizard.

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;34522527]Also, The Third International was the Comintern, I see what seed is doing.[/QUOTE] I believe this is the second international, if we count Comintern as the first, wouldn't it be? [editline]3rd February 2012[/editline] Dividing Europe is a pain.

Politics in "Empires and Revolutions" [video=youtube;v07Q9i2UpNk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v07Q9i2UpNk[/video]

[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;34522888]Politics in "Empires and Revolutions" [video=youtube;v07Q9i2UpNk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v07Q9i2UpNk[/video][/QUOTE] Yea, that's the situation right there.

Jesus. Next time people want to settle something... go to the guy yourselves... or pay me for my services.