Map of Europe 1946
[URL="http://maps.omniatlas.com/europe/19460501/"]http://http://maps.omniatlas.com/europe/19460501/[/URL]
Not sure why Poland is Poland
[editline]12th October 2014[/editline]
CCCP won't be dividing Eastern Germany into smaller German states.
[QUOTE=KriegsMar1ne;46219288]Map of Europe 1946
[URL="http://maps.omniatlas.com/europe/19460501/"]http://http://maps.omniatlas.com/europe/19460501/[/URL]
Not sure why Poland is Poland
[editline]12th October 2014[/editline]
CCCP won't be dividing Eastern Germany into smaller German states.[/QUOTE]
CCCP doesn't have full diplomatic authority over what happens to East Germany. You're welcome to deal with it in international diplomacy, but we need to agree to a plan for the whole of Germany.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];46219399']CCCP doesn't have full diplomatic authority over what happens to East Germany. You're welcome to deal with it in international diplomacy, but we need to agree to a plan for the whole of Germany.[/QUOTE]
To an extent semi-correct as I retain full authority over the soviet occupied zone (Within of course the Potsdam), however I was stating the intent to not let Germany be divided into smaller nations nor absorbed by neighboring countries.
I do however stand by the borders proposed in which the GDR was created in the eastern territories. The rest of that agreement in which west came together into west Germany I could care less about and do with what you will.
[QUOTE=KriegsMar1ne;46219478]To an extent semi-correct as I retain full authority over the soviet occupied zone (Within of course the Potsdam), however I was stating the intent to not let Germany be divided into smaller nations nor absorbed by neighboring countries.
I do however stand by the borders proposed in which the GDR was created in the eastern territories. The rest of that agreement in which west came together into west Germany I could care less about and do with what you will.[/QUOTE]
There's no sense in establishing a German state after two world wars. It's in your interests as well to prevent a powerful Germany, and unless you're going to do some puppeting then you have no reason to establish the DDR.
I don't care if you influence the eastern portions but there's no sense in establishing a unified eastern German state.
Why are you breaking up Germany.
Like, really, it went fine in real life.
[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;46219559]Why are you breaking up Germany.
Like, really, it went fine in real life.[/QUOTE]
IRL France wanted to break up Germany. This was also the plan the Americans had pre-Truman (option C is based off of the Roosevelt Plan). It was backed by the Soviets for a long while also. No one wanted a powerful German state, no one wanted their European power challenged, and no one wanted that threat on their borders.
I'm running from this mindset. And you know that as soon as someone plays Germany they'll want unity and then it's the Fourth Reich.
As the only person thinking of playing germany, I can assure you I don't want to conquer everyone - it went poorly enough the last two times, and the crimes of the nazis must never be committed again.
That would be a fucking horrible idea for germany to try to be a fourth reich, pretty much all of its young men are deaded.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;46220078]That would be a fucking horrible idea for germany to try to be a fourth reich, pretty much all of its young men are deaded.[/QUOTE]
Germany at this point still has enough men to form a small (compared to what they were) but semi-capable military.
However being on who Germany is now surrounded by, even if these men and the people were to overcome war exhaustion and their shortages they'd be wiped out within a few short weeks.
The men that would be in this army could however be best used elsewhere, like rebuilding their ravaged country. Not to mention more large scale death would hurt the countries ability to increase population even more-so.
To another matter, a seperation of German states helps nobody. They eliminate a possible threat sure but in that sense it's regardless as one can band enough german states together easily, Division also eliminates a large economic partner which a collection of mini states would have a tough time rivaling. While I'd prefer Western Germany as a whole, I'd be fine with it's dissolution. However I will not dissolve Eastern Germany and intend to form the DPR as a communist extension state, for which I'd like the transfer of Berlin to CCCP control, if that's negotiable.
I should also state that the only nations to "benefit" from the elimination of Germany as a collective whole would be those in it's vicinity: France and England. Both an economic and (improbable) military powerhouse on your doorstep would be obviously a contender for superiority. Which is why I can understand a western dissolution.
Seed, it's almost as if you want history to repeat itself. But, I am just the GM. The games decided by you guys.
[sp]No, I am not being sarcastic either.[/sp]
Anyways,
I have South Africa, USSR, France, and Ethiopias turns. Get ye turns in guys.
I think I'll sit this turn out
[QUOTE=Mallow234;46224862]I think I'll sit this turn out[/QUOTE]
Don't blame you. I personally think dividing Germany in states will only make it worst for France. He's asking for them to unite and fuck him over again.
Turn will be out tomorrow by 9p.m. est.
[QUOTE=LoganIsAwesome;46225100]Don't blame you. I personally think dividing Germany in states will only make it worst for France. He's asking for them to unite and fuck him over again.[/QUOTE]
I'm open to negotiation but no one's come forward.
If you divide it, I'll take Bavaria.
[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;46227670]If you divide it, I'll take Bavaria.[/QUOTE]
Well, there's another nation agreeing to my proposal, so in terms of the liklihood of it being divided, at least in the west, we're looking at at least 4 German states, if not more.
Hold it to a vote
[QUOTE=LoganIsAwesome;46227902]Hold it to a vote[/QUOTE]
Four occupying powers- France, US, UK, and USSR
Five if you count Poland, but let's not
It would be a 50/50 split.
I'm that case I'd like to put forth my own edition.
It's the same as the image B. Minus the Soviet occupational zone; which becomes a single party communist state/protectorate of the CCCP. West Berlin is rejoined into a single communist Berlin, the capitol of the GDR (German Democratic Republic).
[QUOTE=KriegsMar1ne;46227958]It's not really a voting matter, it's the western occupying nations (US,ENG,FRA) deciding on what they want to do with the west. So far only Seed has put forth ideas of what to do with them.
I however support plan B, minus of course the SOZ
Snipping this give me a minute[/QUOTE]
Yea but that won't work because then you have a powerful communist germany and a weak western germany.
I'd also like to change the output of the German industrial system from war capable production to civil production.
(Removal of drydocks, etc)
This will limit any large, non defensive military from being raised.
[editline]13th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];46227974']Yea but that won't work because then you have a powerful communist germany and a weak western germany.[/QUOTE]
Then how would you propose changing the west. We could of course go with the Morgenthau plan. But at the cost of a 40% populace kill-off.
[editline]13th October 2014[/editline]
Communist Germany also would have no industry for war, as stated above.
A small 100k man total defense force would be enough to protect each Germany from minor aggression, and prevent it from moving in an aggressive manner.
This number can of course be reduced.
Tbh I'd just prefer Germany be divided the same way it was historically. Fucking them up worked so well when the treaty of Versailles tried it.
[QUOTE=KriegsMar1ne;46228016]I'd also like to change the output of the German industrial system from war capable production to civil production.
(Removal of drydocks, etc)
This will limit any large, non defensive military from being raised.
[editline]13th October 2014[/editline]
Then how would you propose changing the west. We could of course go with the Morgenthau plan. But at the cost of a 40% populace kill-off.
[editline]13th October 2014[/editline]
Communist Germany also would have no industry for war, as stated above.[/QUOTE]
I think this could be a possibly compromise.
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38678023/propd.png[/img]
I'd prefer Berlin to be wholly under the DPR.
We both have no intentions of reunification so there's no need in dividing it.
[editline]13th October 2014[/editline]
Other than Berlin I'm on board.
What about changing Germany's production output.
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38678023/prope.png[/img]
Most likely occurrence.
Also I'd only agree to concede Berlin if you agree to split your portion of Germany.
Kriegsmarine get online on steam damnit
[QUOTE=Karishnikova;46228265]Kriegsmarine get online on steam damnit[/QUOTE]
he is
I thought he was Cyrus the Great lol
[QUOTE=Karishnikova;46228325]I thought he was Cyrus the Great lol[/QUOTE]
He's not turkey or Saudi arabia so that's kinda obvious it's not cyrus
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