[QUOTE=Arc Nova;50963464]it'd be neat to import old builds from past generations and make them appear dilapidated. Remove all torches as well and leave the ruins to the mobs. If anybody wants to try and raid the old builds for supplies they certainly can but they will also have to deal with a massive mob infestation.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the addition of spawners, too, could help with this and add to the danger factor
[QUOTE=Fhenexx;50963723]Maybe the addition of spawners, too, could help with this and add to the danger factor[/QUOTE]
That would be pretty badass to dig a tunnel, discover a buried castle filled with zombie hordes. Straight out of a D&D story.
If Viral ever ends up sending me the old world save I'll totally load it up and put it in the world in damaged states. Come next Friday I'll increase the world size by 1000 blocks. (500 on each side). Would people be willing for me to set up a meeting at some point next week, in team speak, for everyone to discuss where we want to take MNR?
A weekend would be preferable for me to take part. Or a weekday morning (EST)
I think generally, you can acheivr better results with one custom developed forge mod .jar than with a number of poorly optimized plugins not designed to work together, and developed for old versions of Minecraft with little to no developer support. Everyone here already probably has forge, so it'd literally be drag-and-drop the MNRMOD.jar into the folder, and boom, done. This versus trying to make plugins work that don't exactly do what you want, and ending up with a server that's "just another" MCMMO/Factions/etc. server that's an amalgamation of the only working plugins for 1.10, instead of a unique experience. If people want vanilla, we have a vanilla server for building centric gameplay, and the hardcore experience of the server currently is more of a second thought that gets in people's way as they build mega-structures than as a focus on survival and barely scraping by against the environment. With the community working together, and with MC full of OP endgame gear designed primarily for PVP, the PVE is even more easy, as all those cool endgame items useful for PVP can only be used against mobs that stand absolutely no chance against them. I myself have hardly seen any challenge against mobs and I know most people here have died exclusively to accidents and mistakes, rather than against challenging enemies or starvation due to a lack of food or what have you. The hardcore difficulty is superfluous when the challenge isn't real and it only serves as an annoyance that keeps people from building, rather than as the focus of the server. This can't be remedied with tacked on plugins that just slightly reshape the experience or add gimmicky timers and stats, or by completely removing materials in a game where there's only four resources used for tools. Instead, a mod should be developed that addresses these issues one-by-one in a way that would make MNR the only server to have this gameplay, making it both unique and challenging, and while keeping things feeling vanilla, as I feel a mod that fits in with the general aesthetic feels far more vanilla than a plugin that has to be text based or generally doesn't fit with the default controls due to limitations of plugins.
This can be anything, whatever the community wants. A single mod made for the server with all the wants and needs of the server that can be easily developed, updated, and distributed, and without any sort of difficulty in installation because the developer is a part of a community and because the mod is the only one needed for the server, and it houses everything you could want or need.
This can be quality of life stuff for variety and role-playing, like vanilla-feeling blocks and foods, additions to the material tier list to fill in the gaps between leather and iron, like copper and bronze, this could be mob nests for a server-wide challenge, new mobs, decreased ore spawning that only spawns in large clusters that take more time to mine, making TNT and finding pre-existing caves more useful for actual mining since currently making giant holes in the ground is too easy for finding any material. It could mean torches go out after a week ingame, making lanterns useful, and on that note, custom lanterns that fit aesthetically and use less glowstone than blocks, the possibilities are endless.
These are all things I've done, although most people are probably only familiar with the fallout Minecraft thing I did and the other little mods, but the idea remains, that if people want a vanilla experience that doesn't create too many out of place methods and such, that is very acheivable very quickly with a single mod that will run well and be unique to the server, with all the ideas the server has to offer, instead of "text on screen that says you're a faster miner now."
Ehh, went to go join and it said I wasn't whitelisted. Rip.
?? That's weird let me try again.
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;50964440]?? That's weird let me try again.[/QUOTE]
it's /whitelist add just in case
Just did it twice to be double sure, try again
EDIT: I fucked up the first time, I always fuck it up the first time I put it in :v:
If any user wants to get added make sure you ask me at least twice, or just ask terry/viral
BB used to do permanent night from time to time usually on unban days to hike up the difficulty.
I'll try and find time to upload the old world it's pretty hefty filesize wise. Is mega okay with everyone?
Can we ramp up the difficulty and make nighttime super long on full moons?
Loriborn feels like a salesman, I am not opposed to what he suggesting at all, maybe we need to take a step back from we what we consider "Usual MNR" and offer a gameplay that is completely original?
[url]http://www.strawpoll.me/11103736[/url]
We will be discussion a whole ton of things:
Map Gen
Plugins/Mods
Difficulty
Etc, I'll make a proper meeting questions and stuff.
[QUOTE=ViralHatred;50964552]BB used to do permanent night from time to time usually on unban days to hike up the difficulty.
I'll try and find time to upload the old world it's pretty hefty filesize wise. Is mega okay with everyone?[/QUOTE]
We ought to take these changes slowly and I think an extended night time would be best as a first step.
Or, is there a pluggin that prevents bad mobs from burning in sunlight? I always thought that ought be a hardcore feature anyway.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50965055]We ought to take these changes slowly and I think an extended night time would be best as a first step.
Or, is there a pluggin that prevents bad mobs from burning in sunlight? I always thought that ought be a hardcore feature anyway.[/QUOTE]
What about a mod that makes players burn in the sunlight?
Be prepared to experience [B]tension[/B] and [B]suspence[/B] this week, as a mysterious unnamed felon has put a bounty on NitronikALT's head!
(events might not be true at all)
If mobs didnt burn in daylight that alone would be a great feature
I feel like the best way to approach difficulty is by changing the focus of gameplay to something inherently focused on difficulty, rather than creativity. Like I have mentioned earlier, we already have a number of servers that exclusively exist for people who want to be creative and build large structures and work cooperatively, this server was originally designed as a PVE server, with inklings of PVP and roleplaying because vanilla Minecraft just didn't put up much of a challenge when MNR first sprung up. Now, years later, Minecraft is even easier than before, with easily accessible end game gear designed to make PVP more fun, but that intrinsically makes PVE even easier than before. Potions and shield make PVP nice and varied, but against dumb mobs, it only makes fighting hordes of zombies and skeletons a breeze, with player deaths occurring more due to falling off ledges, lag, glitches, starvation because of forgetting to bring food from your impenetrable base's multi-chest supply of near endless potatoes and bread, or some other accident. The only times I feel a player is actually going to die of enemies or legitimate starvation, is probably when first joining, and because everyone is so obscenely friendly, free enchanted armor, food, arrows, etc. (all items that make the game too easy) are given away at spawn, so new players go only a few seconds before having high end gear with decent enchantments, putting them at near invincible status if only considering mobs and food the biggest threats. That's why everyone on the server has focused on these mega structures and huge civic projects; not for survival or to protect the town from threats, not even really for roleplaying either, as was the case in the first MNR, rather instead, these buildings and projects are taken on because the "hardcore survival" server has evolved into a sandbox chat room build server where you get banned every now and then when you accidentally move your pinkie off the crouch key and fall off the ledge of your 100 block high tower of excess. I should know, that's the only way I've ever died in this iteration. When a player can make a serverwide puzzle prize hunt game with the loot their accumulated, (however fun it was) you have to see that the focus on survival and "hardcore scraping by with bases and forts that exist for practicality rather than 'just for fun' " has been left in the dust for something more focused on creativity. This is fine, but we have other servers that let players build crazy impenetrable cities. In hardcore survival, people shouldn't be taking on huge mega projects for fun, and shouldn't be afraid of having their structures partially damaged or destroyed due to dangers. This is what makes something hardcore; knowing your stuff is safe and sound 24/7 from any risk or harm means you have no reason to leave your houSe during the night, no incentive to work together legitimately, as you just need a coal and stick and a bit of time to make entire swathes of land completely safe, and you can spend the rest of your afternoon sitting in a safe little tunnel grinding away at stone for hours on end until you have chests of diamond. This isn't survival, nor is it a challenge. It's like min-maxing Morrowind.
There are no plugins that can address this issue. Messing with night and day just makes building more annoying, making the diamond class super soldiers that are the server's playerbase, just have to be a bit extra watchful when making their super structure. If you're in a safe zone like spawn, you have no risk whatsoever, and most players already have huge mansions that are completely impenetrable and lit up. 2 hours of night? Just stay inside and mine during that time. If one hour of night is a breeze because your clad in diamond enchanted armor with OP gear, how would extending this time make it any more challenging? You just get even more time to chop away at non-dangerous mobs like a warm knife through butter, and on top of that you get to grind away and get even more loot to build your structures and make your wealth of tools you'll never really use or need. More night wouldn't make the server challenging, because as it is, even the vanilla night is easy for most everyone who has good gear; factor in how easily one can get good gear because of my previously explained reasons, and you can see why this isn't the best solution.
One major problem is that mobs are dumb, weak, too few, and uncoordinated. Usually a player threat would make players on edge because humans can plot and scheme and steal, but against the environment, there is no overarching threat, at least in vanilla. Mobs are spread out, don't often tag team players, and if they do, it's accidentally. Knockback is OP, and shields prevent all damage without mobs having a way to block player attacks. Mobs can be outrun by players even without horses.
These are all things that can be remedied with a focused mod, as plugins can't do this level of editing, and few exist that do even a few of these things. Those that do exist are outdated with little configuration options and no support from the developer. With a mod, nests could exist and spread, providing an overarching threat similar to the taint in Thaumcraft or Terraria, but while being a relatively casual threat that wouldn't force players to focus on it immediately; this would hopefully prevent players from eradicating all nests immediately. A "boss" matriarch could exist in original nests, making complete eradication a true "endgame" challenge that requires legitimate cooperation. Mobs can be modded to have shields or blocking modes that prevent damage, could throw items like witches while still carrying a bow or sword to pose a threat, and certain mobs can do damage to certain blocks so people have to build properly rather than whimsically. Food can be made more sparse, animals spawning less frequently but in larger herds. Players can be made to have smaller inventory space to make planning trips and work more of a challenge. Mobs can drop bodies instead of popping into the anther, meaning players would have to take corpses home and butcher them, rather than killing a cow in a few seconds and getting good stuff. This would mean the life of a mob would be harder to take, more time consuming, but a single cow would produce way more than they do currently. Ore could work the same way, rarer veins that are larger, making towns pop up around them, and the time it takes to mine them could be extraordinary. Mines would pop up around caves rather than every player having their own strip mine. TNT could be made more valuable this way as well, since it'd be the only simple way to get decent number of ores. Armor and weapons could be less simple to make, requiring more resources, or at the vary least, a more difficult to acquire forging method.
These are just a few ideas that I feel make the game more challenging.
Plus, a mod could introduce quality of life features. Chairs, tables, fences, furniture, different containers that offer aesthetic choices, like caskets, boxes, display cases, urns, vases, etc., while making chests hold less to coincide with resources having more intrinsic value so having fewer of them would be a bigger deal. Little additions like other plants and tree types, different woods, additional ores to bridge iron and leather, so that players can more naturally evolve from leather to copper to bronze and so on. Maybe even introducing advantages for types of armor so that there is more to armor than just amount of protection, like leather decreasing likeliness for mobs to notice the player. Walking speed affected by armor weight, weapon material effecting swing speed, bows being harder to obtain but having slings be a weaker alternative.
These are all little additions that are not necessarily difficult to code, but would alter the gameplay to be much less focused on the rush to diamond enchantment, and more on surviving and roleplaying, as I think MNR does best.
you sure do love mods
One huge problem with your proposal is bordering on altering the game too much.
Nests, corruption, better mobs? Okay. Mobs being witches v2? having to butcher corpses? less inventory? ehhhhhhh.
[QUOTE=NitronikALT;50965595]you sure do love modsOne huge problem with your proposal is bordering on altering the game too much.Nests, corruption, better mobs? Okay. Mobs being witches v2? having to butcher corpses? less inventory? ehhhhhhh.[/QUOTE] I mean, haven't we all played vanilla Minecraft for literally years? What's the problem with a new experience. It's not as if vanilla Minecraft is intrinsically more fun or challenging, I think people just have this notion of "purity." I don't see why people want to build just another castle with cobblestone over and over again. Obviously any MNR mod would be whatever players wanted or suggested, rather than any one person's idea. These are just doable things to show what can be done to increase difficulty. Why try to keep the game vanilla when people are relatively outspoken in saying how poorly designed MC is? Wouldn't that make additions, so long as they're fun, better regardless of how different the experience is? It just means the server won't be more of same. It also wouldn't just be another forge modpack server, because it'd all be exclusive to MNR.
Not to say you shouldn't but if the server strays too far from being vanilla I probably would leave.
[editline]28th August 2016[/editline]
I don't play MNR looking for difficulty. I play MNR because it has (and had) the best, most friendly community on any kind of gaming server I've ever been on.
we're just looking for a source of excitement that doesn't come directly from building/cooperating with others, but we're basing it off of difficulty because that's how MNR prides itself in the first place.
I never really attributed the word "exciting" to Minecraft before but that may just be me :v:
[QUOTE=DJswitch;50966004]we're just looking for a source of excitement that doesn't come directly from building/cooperating with others, but we're basing it off of difficulty because that's how MNR prides itself in the first place.[/QUOTE]
It's been tried before with plugins in iterations of MNR, it's never really quite good enough. This is only something mods can do. Obviously we don't need super game changing things, but you won't achieve fun additional difficulty without server specific modding, even if it's just lightly.
My only concern with a modded server (and thus a modded client) is making sure players with weaker rigs can join. Some of our players can barely make 30 on low, adding complicated mods may make it worse. I'm not totally closed off to the idea of mods but if we do go that route we need to be absolutely sure all players can still participate.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;50966148]My only concern with a modded server (and thus a modded client) is making sure players with weaker rigs can join. Some of our players can barely make 30 on low, adding complicated mods may make it worse. I'm not totally closed off to the idea of mods but if we do go that route we need to be absolutely sure all players can still participate.[/QUOTE]
Generally, plugins and mods don't affect player performance online, but if they cause issues with the server performance due to instability and poor optimization, it would be just as bad, or worse, than a single player modded client. This is why it's important to have a single mod with all the custom content rather than a bunch of plugins not designed to work together.
Most of the performance loss for a client would only due to clientside code, and since it's a server only mod, no one should experience any performance degradation on their side unless there is a lot of particles or custom models being rendered at the same time, but even then, it would take a good number of particles to cause FPS drop on the client. I'm sure the server can handle most of the stuff anyone here has as an idea without any sort of issue.
Things like custom blocks for building variety wouldn't affect performance at all. Server performance would mostly be dependent on number of entities and blocks or entities that tick often. If a nest thing is done, that would use some server resources, but no more than an additional player, and it wouldn't affect player's clientside performance. Dead bodies and changes to ore, blocks, etc. wouldn't affect performance on anyone's end, though it would increase how long it would take the server to initialize and shut down.
[editline]29th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50965754]I don't play MNR looking for difficulty. I play MNR because it has (and had) the best, most friendly community on any kind of gaming server I've ever been on.[/QUOTE]
I mean, that's a nice bonus, but at least historically, MNR has focused on being difficult. FP has a good number of MC servers, and they all pull from the same playerbase of MC players on this site. There's no reason to only stick to one server, just go to the "vanilla build" server when you want to play creatively, and the "max no relax hardcore survival" server when you want a difficult experience. I mean, difficulty is sort of in the name of the server.
I'll tell you the difference straight off between other vanilla servers and this one: It doesn't make death an afterthought or something that can transport you to your spawn faster. It pressures players into acting safer than usual even if the situation comes off as easy. You might have 'unstoppable' armor, but good luck taking a dip into the void and surviving.
People place so much boredom on the fact that challenge goes away the stronger you get. That sounds exactly like any other sandbox game. Face it, most people don't have the capacity to continue interest through other means. They want an all-new experience in combat, building, and other shit. Still I believe that Minecraft is first and foremost a building game with survival as an added benefit, and as long as the community lives, I don't care what gets added or removed.
People who get involved with others in this server have so much more fun and their interest stays because they're bonding with others who have different tastes in building and playing. People are the only thing in Minecraft that will be limitlessly entertaining! I'd get bored slapping down a 2 ton megastructure by myself quickly because it severs the ties to community that really fuel what MP Minecraft is all about.
I love this community so much. When people band together to build and make environments livelier, it directly contributes to the passion that players have to the server. It wouldn't be nearly as a great, developed spawn if it weren't for the players who put their heart into making it. I personally want only one demand put through: I want the people to work together more often. I want to see a town other than spawnville.
The draw of MNR was that it was a vanilla facepunch server that banned you for dying and unlike traditional hardcore servers of the time we were manually unbanned by deleting the playerfiles of people and unbanning them- in doing so they lost all their inventory, their ender chests had their spawn reset. MNR has never focused on being difficult the fun was trying to do the riskiest shit possible without dying and being brothers in arms whilst getting slaughtered by your own stupidity because if you died you had to start over.
I think it's the changes to enchantments and XP that have thrown everything off a little since they cost nothing now and there's not even a reason to risk fighting the Ender Dragon when all he drops is a tiny 500xp after being respawned.
[QUOTE=DJswitch;50966843]You might have 'unstoppable' armor, but good luck taking a dip into the void and surviving.[/QUOTE]
That's the solution! The server should be End only!
I hopped on the server for a short while, had to leave unfortunately. However I did start off being chased by a creeper near spawn, and for the first time in a while I actually ran from the thing. Started building a little house near by that I didn't get to finish, going to try and have it match the aesthetics of the starter city but I haven't honestly put any sort of effort into building a house beyond functionality, so this is a pretty neat new experiance for me. What is there to protect my property besides nametags?
[QUOTE=Rammlied;50967624]That's the solution! The server should be End only![/QUOTE]
I won't lie, that sounds like it'd be fun for a week or so if the end islands were generated with ores/grass/etc for standard building.
[editline]29th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Toy_Soldier;50967637]I hopped on the server for a short while, had to leave unfortunately. However I did start off being chased by a creeper near spawn, and for the first time in a while I actually ran from the thing. Started building a little house near by that I didn't get to finish, going to try and have it match the aesthetics of the starter city but I haven't honestly put any sort of effort into building a house beyond functionality, so this is a pretty neat new experiance for me. What is there to protect my property besides nametags?[/QUOTE]
Putting a sign on a chest, furnace, other usable items, and above doorframes and leaving it blank sets it to [Private] YourNameHere. If you right click the sign, you can type /lockette LineNumber Input. If you want, you can add shit like other users, [Everyone], [Timer:#].
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