Has your opinion of a class / character changed since 2007?
236 replies, posted
I dont think/have thought about the personalities. I just play the game.
[QUOTE=Benvil;29720133]Flamethrower is efficient for some purposes, and using one does not make you less murder or more crazed than other crazed gunmen.[/QUOTE]
While not really important, I disagree just a little there. There's a difference between shooting someone with a rocket (Instant death likely), shooting someone in the head with a rifle (Near guaranteed instant death), then lighting someone on fire and having them horrifically roast to death. I would personally put somebody a few notches up on the crazy meter for picking a weapon made largely to painfully kill or disfigure, over a guy just putting a few shots into someone with a rifle.
I now think the Medic is a closet homosexual.
I just can't see him with a woman.
[QUOTE=Yardbomb;29720322]While not really important, I disagree just a little there. There's a difference between shooting someone with a rocket (Instant death likely), shooting someone in the head with a rifle (Near guaranteed instant death), then lighting someone on fire and having them horrifically roast to death. I would personally put somebody a few notches up on the crazy meter for picking a weapon made largely to painfully kill or disfigure, over a guy just putting a few shots into someone with a rifle.[/QUOTE]
That's the point, it a weapon of FEAR. People do not like burning to death.
[editline]9th May 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=McNab;29720385]I now think the Medic is a closet homosexual.
I just can't see him with a woman.[/QUOTE]
But he has a wife.
A cheating wife with a thing for black scottish cyclopes, but a wife none the less.
[QUOTE=TraderRager;29720394]That's the point, it a weapon of FEAR. People do not like burning to death.[/QUOTE]
That wasn't much the point, just that someone who uses a weapon like that probably has to be a bit more off or crazed than your typical guy who just guns somebody down with X firearm. Was putting an extra point forward for the whole *Pyro is/might be crazy* thing.
[QUOTE=Yardbomb;29720322]While not really important, I disagree just a little there. There's a difference between shooting someone with a rocket (Instant death likely), shooting someone in the head with a rifle (Near guaranteed instant death), then lighting someone on fire and having them horrifically roast to death. I would personally put somebody a few notches up on the crazy meter for picking a weapon made pretty largely to painfully kill or disfigure, over someone just putting a few shots into someone with a rifle.[/QUOTE]
I've had the whole thought about Flame Throwers being a pain coursing weapon, but war is war, and as I see it, you are equally crazed no matter what you plan to kill people with. Hell, there is warfare worse than flames, like acid and nuclear. Nuclear being the worst which can force generations to spring up as mutants who leave in an eternal pain, untill death tear them apart.
Everyone in war is "crazy" and in my eyes it doesn't matter what tool they use for it. Beside, like I said, the Flame Thrower have unique uses which make it an efficent addition to the team. It's the best weapon for creating horror/fearhavoc/chaos/panic, good for getting large group and in TF2 also the only weapon who can penetrate Engineer buildings(which makes sense). Those things add towards it's unique efficency and contriubtion to the team.
War is a crazy thing to begin with, and I'm not seeing any way as being more morally correct. You go in war with the intend to hurt others(or gain money in some cases) so how you do it is irrelevant, and when you do it the important thing is being efficient to beat the enemy.
Beside, explosives and bullets course pain as often Flame Throwers does(specially when it's not even a napalm based one). Having your limbs blown off or your body penetrated with steel aren't exactly a walk on the flowerfield either. Explosive kills you instantly if close, bullets will likely kill you instantly in the head, and Flame Thrower will likely kill you before you even feel a thing if you aren't extremely fast to escape.
There is no morals on the battlefield, yet I'm glad things like nuclear is banned, because it's a horrible tool of destruction. But I wouldn't blame anyone for using them, since they are efficient at the intend.
[QUOTE=Benvil;29720133] Also, I don't see why most people mark him as some crazy madman because he uses a Flame Thrower. Why is that more wrong to use than other tools of war? It's a team of 9 mercenaries, and someone had to take the weapon which great chaos and crowd control. Flame is efficent for some purposes, and using one does not make you less murder or more crazt than other crazed gunsmen. Pyro COULD be crazy, much like Soldier is, but he shouldn't be judge by being so just because of his weapon choice, when we have no idea how his personality and identity is truly.[/QUOTE]Although I agree with most of what you say otherwise, there are good reasons as to why the Geneva Convention prohibited most incendiary weapons. Things like flamethrowers are [i]not[/i] efficient or practical so far as person-to-person combat is concerned. What they do excel in is... "Morale undermining", I suppose is a way to put it.
Hit someone with a rifle, they are lucky if they live. Hit someone with a flamethrower, they are lucky if they [i]die[/i]. This would be the part where I should suggest looking up what fire can do to someone, but I honestly think that plugging something like "burn victim" into a search engine is a bloody [i]horrible[/i] idea. What I can note, though, is that flamethrower operators in wars were almost never taken prisoner. If they were incapacitated, they were most often killed on the spot simply because someone who touted such a malicious and spiteful weapon did not deserve mercy. Someone who used a flamethrower against infantry was considered an unrepentant monster even by other soldiers, and the Pyro does [i]nothing but[/i] that. While [i]laughing[/i].
-snip-
[QUOTE=Pennywise;29720742]Although I agree with most of what you say otherwise, there are good reasons as to why the Geneva Convention prohibited most incendiary weapons. Things like flamethrowers are [i]not[/i] efficient or practical so far as person-to-person combat is concerned. What they do excel in is... "Morale undermining", I suppose is a way to put it.
Hit someone with a rifle, they are lucky if they live. Hit someone with a flamethrower, they are lucky if they [i]die[/i]. This would be the part where I should suggest looking up what fire can do to someone, but I honestly think that plugging something like "burn victim" into a search engine is a bloody [i]horrible[/i] idea. What I can note, though, is that flamethrower operators in wars were almost never taken prisoner. If they were incapacitated, they were most often killed on the spot simply because someone who touted such a malicious and spiteful weapon did not deserve mercy. Someone who used a flamethrower against infantry was considered an unrepentant monster even by other soldiers, and the Pyro does [i]nothing but[/i] that. While [i]laughing[/i].[/QUOTE]
Yes, and I'm glad such tools a forbidden. Hell, I wish I lived in a world where all such tools was banned, but that is wishful thinking. Not efficent? Lucky to die? Most Flame Throwers WILL kill you nearly instantly if you get caught dead-on without notice(which is rarely the case with real-life Flame Thrower troops, those are slow, cluncky and pretty obvious). They will melt your face off. It's horrible if you get caught on fire and kill the person with the Flame Thrower, in which case you could very likely survive with horrible pains... But... Valve intended Pyro as an ambush class(despite how most use him), which would make me think Pyro "want" to ambush people, in which case people most often will be dead before they notice a thing. Sometimes Pyro will even be gentleman enough to cut you down with an axe before you feel a thing :)
I guess I'm reapting myself quite a lot now, but as I see it, Pyro is taking part in the team effort. No matter how horrible a tool his weapon is. They all want to contribute with something different to make them efficent at war, and someone had to take the weapon which spreads fear among the horde(specially since it's base in a time where weaponary was more limited).
Also, I just remembered. People often judge Medic as being nice, since his contribution to the team is to healing people. I rarely hear people call Medic crazy, despite he shoot people to death with needles. It's the same with the Pyro, he is doing a contribution to the team he believe in, at the cost of spreading fear among the enemies.
Also, yes, he do cheer and laugh when he get kills. Much like all the other classes... Heavy doesn't exactly hide his maniac laughing when mowing people down with a mini-gun, and the other classes certainly doesn't mind laughing and saying offences either. Also, do mind Pyro laugh when he actually get kills, not when people get set on fire and run in pain.
I guess I'm the only person who doesn't want to judge the poor Pyro as being crazy, until I've seen what contents hide under the mask :smith:
[editline]9th May 2011[/editline]
So, I guess I do agree to some extend, but Pyro does NOT act as your average real life Flame Thrower user. He wish to kill you before you notice a thing, which is rarely the case with the real life alternative, who fairly often would die and only set you on fire. That is also why Pyro's with Axtinguisher's are such fine gentlemen, killing you before the pain kicks in!
Scout is a lot more accurate to actual people from Boston than he used to be
[QUOTE=TraderRager;29720394]But he has a wife.
A cheating wife with a thing for black scottish cyclopes, but a wife none the less.[/QUOTE]
Huh
[QUOTE=majan_pl;29720977]shit I accidentally clicked disagree :(
Scout:
errand boy -> saucy bastard
Soldier
madman -> even more crazy madman
Pyro:
Mysterious creepy guy -> creepy clown
Demoman:
Badass guy -> friendly guy who loves his family
Heavy:
Badass guy with badass weapon -> clown with his sandvich
Enginner:
Mysterious creepy guy -> not so creepy and not so Mysterious guy
Medic
Still good nazi, some kind of mysterious
Sniper:
Clam mysterious killer who knows what he is donig -> sissy madman
Spy:
Mysterious killer -> not so mysterious killer who knows everything about everyone, also he likes your mother[/QUOTE]
Valve has stated that Medic was not a former nazi
Engineer went from a chill Texan who's loving machines and is indifferent to killing people to a closet psychopath exposing his true, unnatural love to technology by cutting his hand of and replacing it with a mechanical one without even knowing whether it will work or not.
It scared me deeply when I saw the Gunslinger for the first time, and I'd bet Engie would sacrifice his entire body except for the brain to become an android if he had a possibility. That's a pretty terrifying thought if you ask me.
You know, this is what I like about TF2. You can either just play the game, or go in for some deep analysis on the character's personalities :buddy:
I'd really wish there would be a couple more of the comics, not only because they look badass, but they also reveal so much, like what their life is beyond all the war.
[QUOTE=McNab;29721646]Huh[/QUOTE]
Demoman's domination lines.
And I've been shaggin' yer' wife.
[QUOTE=McNab;29721646]Huh[/QUOTE]
Demoman domination line, when he dominates a Medic.
"And I've been shagging (=fucking) your wife!"
[B]Edit:[/B]
Zhe ninjas!
[QUOTE=Benvil;29721060]Yes, and I'm glad such tools a forbidden. Hell, I wish I lived in a world where all such tools was banned, but that is wishful thinking. Not efficent? Lucky to die? Most Flame Throwers WILL kill you nearly instantly if you get caught dead-on without notice(which is rarely the case with real-life Flame Thrower troops, those are slow, cluncky and pretty obvious). They will melt your face off. It's horrible if you get caught on fire and kill the person with the Flame Thrower, in which case you could very likely survive with horrible pains... But... Valve intended Pyro as an ambush class(despite how most use him), which would make me think Pyro "want" to ambush people, in which case people most often will be dead before they notice a thing. Sometimes Pyro will even be gentleman enough to cut you down with an axe before you feel a thing :)
I guess I'm reapting myself quite a lot now, but as I see it, Pyro is taking part in the team effort. No matter how horrible a tool his weapon is. They all want to contribute with something different to make them efficent at war, and someone had to take the weapon which spreads fear among the horde(specially since it's base in a time where weaponary was more limited).
Also, I just remembered. People often judge Medic as being nice, since his contribution to the team is to healing people. I rarely hear people call Medic crazy, despite he shoot people to death with needles. It's the same with the Pyro, he is doing a contribution to the team he believe in, at the cost of spreading fear among the enemies.
Also, yes, he do cheer and laugh when he get kills. Much like all the other classes... Heavy doesn't exactly hide his maniac laughing when mowing people down with a mini-gun, and the other classes certainly doesn't mind laughing and saying offences either. Also, do mind Pyro laugh when he actually get kills, not when people get set on fire and run in pain.
I guess I'm the only person who doesn't want to judge the poor Pyro as being crazy, until I've seen what contents hide under the mask :smith:
[editline]9th May 2011[/editline]
So, I guess I do agree to some extend, but Pyro does NOT act as your average real life Flame Thrower user. He wish to kill you before you notice a thing, which is rarely the case with the real life alternative, who fairly often would die and only set you on fire. That is also why Pyro's with Axtinguisher's are such fine gentlemen, killing you before the pain kicks in![/QUOTE]
I agree with Pennywise more.
Pyro uses the most unethical weapon in the game, a weapon that always kills slowly and that disfigures and causes immense pain while doing so. He has more maniacal laughters than most classes, and he's also the only class you never see the face of. To his enemies he is likely nothing more than a psychopathic monster, while to his teammates he still appears as a rather friendly guy.
I like the frontpage suggestion best for Pyro's purse.
Psycho crossdresser, like from Silence of the Lambs.
For Pyro's hats?
I would give no other explanation than Valve being dumb and listening to the fandom too much.
[img]http://gyazo.com/bd7ef85bebeecccfd84c2ba0623bc666.png[/img]
[img]http://gyazo.com/3096436d9c6bdc0b3598c8a2888c6207.png[/img]
[img]http://gyazo.com/b09e367d195c93665976075353d7efe7.png[/img]
Soldier: A fucking mental headobsessed guy
Ms. Pauling: A total narcistical young woman who doesn't feel fucking anything when killing a poor guy who has jack shit to do with TF Industries
[QUOTE=Simski;29722973]I agree with Pennywise more.
Pyro uses the most unethical weapon in the game, a weapon that always kills slowly and that disfigures and causes immense pain while doing so. He has more maniacal laughters than most classes, and he's also the only class you never see the face of. To his enemies he is likely nothing more than a psychopathic monster, while to his teammates he still appears as a rather friendly guy.
I like the frontpage suggestion best for Pyro's purse.
Psycho crossdresser, like from Silence of the Lambs.
For Pyro's hats?
I would give no other explanation than Valve being dumb and listening to the fandom too much.[/QUOTE]
Ethics in war... Really now? Already been through that argument 3 times now. Your intends is to MURDER someone, I honestly don't see why you want to do it nicely. What is next? Giving people a pillow so they wont get hurt when you will kick them out from Mount Everest a second after? Again, I have no idea where you got the idea that a point blank Flame Thrower kills "slowly"... I guess people aren't aware how immense a heat Flame Throwers actually gives. You brain is likely toast before can give the pain a thought.
That is completely ignoring the fact that unethic=/=crazy. This whole argument started with people claiming for him to be crazy. I guess that one guy who fired a nuclear missile in a war, and afterwards live a completely normal life with his family, is completely crazy and out of his mind too? Ethics and crazy does not have to go hand in hand. War is war, there was nothing ethic with the concept to begin with, so there is not such thing as being ethic about murdering people.
Also, laughing more maniacly than Heavy? I have to object on that one. Try to play some voice clips with Pyro laughing, then Heavy, then tell me who sound more like a maniac. Heavy enjoy slaughtering more than anything.
Not to mention I find it fairly weird that you want to diss the "dumb" hats, but want him to be some crossdressing freakshow.
Pyro could be crazy, but it's unknown. Well, except that all the TF2 classes is crazy to some extend, but Pyro doesn't have to be it more than the others. Beside the whole ethic thing being stupid to begin with, I really have no idea why people are comapring the two. Soldier is crazy, we know he went on a nazi killing spree, was rejected from all armies, continued to murder when the war was over, make up his own historic facts and talk to severed heads.
Pyro burn people and laugh... Maybe, it's just an "I'm happy" laugh, because he's being credit to team? Sort of hard to conclude it as being a maniec laugh when it's muffled so heavily. I've always heard it as a more giggling and happy laughter.
Oh well... Apparently I'm the only one who believe Pyro COULD be a reasonable person, who just contribute in the war with the weapon he master. Note the could, because, maybe he is crazy/disgusting/freak/insane/female/etc, but saying he is based on such a narrow view is stupid in my honest opinion, specially when we know so little about him.
I just hope Meet the Pyro will shed some light on everything, so people could stop stating their thoughts as facts, even if it was to be him being a crossdressing freak.
I think Pyro and Heavy are both crazy.
Pyro is just a walking suit filled with the burning souls of its enemies.
[QUOTE=Erfly;29725049]Pyro is just a walking suit filled with the burning souls of its enemies.[/QUOTE]
Then wouldn't that meant that Pyro would've needed to kill it's enemies for it to exist in the first place? :v:
[QUOTE=lol user;29721985]Valve has stated that Medic was not a former nazi[/QUOTE]
If they let the Medic be regarded as a nazi, a legal or media shitstorm in Germany would be pretty imminent.
Hell, German officials censor swastikas out of [I]World War II games[/I].
[QUOTE=Yardbomb;29727354]Yup, they pretty explicitly said something before along the lines of "He has a dark past, however *The Medic is NOT a Nazi, current or former*"[/QUOTE]
That doesn't mean he couldn't have worked with or for Nazis, in my opinion.
Scout : Started: A punk from boston who thought he was much tougher than he was. A narcissistic.
Now : Still a narcississt, but more insane. And sadistic.
Soldier : Started: All American Crazy Badass.
Now : Japanese obsessed crazy. (Badass?)
Pyro :started : Insane serial killer. with a penis.
Now : Insane Serial killer. With a penis.
Heavy, started badass but now is a weird man-child, and Sniper, went from cool and suave to crazy, and Spy the same.
[QUOTE=Blooper Reel;29727367]They even removed a whole section of the game adaption of And I Must Scream, making it unfinishable.
I am talking about the right version, right?[/QUOTE]
Yes you are, they removed the scenario for Dr. Nimdok, who worked with Mengele in concentration camps, which is where a deal of his scenario takes place. They were having none of that though and took out his scenario, making the game unfinishable.
Sad too, Nimdok had one of the more interesting scenario's and some of the creepier dialogue from AM put to him. (Been replaying it a bit on ScummVM)
"How are things in the pastry corps, Nimdok? Tell me again how you saw the smoke from the furnaces and they they might be "r-roasting chickens." Or don't you want to talk about all that? About your pal, the good Doktor Mengele?"
Ever since playing Poker Night, I've viewed Heavy as a completely different person than when I first saw him.
[QUOTE=Benvil;29723706]
I just hope Meet the Pyro will shred some light on everything, so people could stop stating their thoughts as facts, even if it was to be him being a crossdressing freak.[/QUOTE]
At this point I don't think we will ever get a straight explanation of the pyro.
Which is a shame in a way, I can understand everyone wanting to keep the mystery alive but the pyro has the potential for any number of incredible background story's. I would love to have seen what the tf2 team could do with it.
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