The Detonator is not glitched/bugged/or whatever and I have proof. - Games

[QUOTE=IDTL;30772199]You shittin' me? The pyro would be a terrible nuisance if he could rocket jump, because he can do afterburn, is relatively speedy for a class, and can't be lit on fire.[/QUOTE] Hahahaha he still thinks afterburn is worth a damn. That mechanic lost use many an update ago. Det Jumping is EXACTLY what Pyro needs, and it STILL probably isn't enough to put him at the level that he needs to be.

[QUOTE=Skunkrocker;30772204]Quick question guys. Why would ANYONE use the Detonator now? Sure, the little bit of a flare jump you get off of it can barely get you up to the BLU spawn in Gravel Pit, but other than that it has no use. None. Zero. It's worse than the Flare Gun. The blast radius even before it hits anything is only big enough to ignite two people if you're lucky, which removes that purpose of it as well, and forget igniting someone if you hit the wall next to them because it will never happen, not to mention the damn thing doesn't explode when hitting alt fire half the time anyway. There are no upsides to using it and one downside: minicrits on an already burning target. So in other words, it's only good for one ambush technique on one map and it's intended purpose doesn't work in the first place. Because of those, it's downside makes it a straight nerf compared to the original Flare Gun. So why would anyone use it? Why, Valve? Why? Explain the reasoning for giving us a straight downgrade weapon. You might as well have given us a Flare Gun that when you press the attack button, the Pyro sticks the gun up into it's mask and pulls the trigger, blowing it's head off, because it'd be the same exact thing.[/QUOTE] Someone does not know how to use it. :v: i can get 3 people on fire if you time the explosive flare right.

Engineer gets a teleporter that can be placed on walls/ceilings with a new melee weapon. Community loves it. Valve states it was a bug, and removes it. Community goes sadface.

[QUOTE=SirKai;30772223]Hahahaha he still thinks afterburn is worth a damn. That mechanic lost use many an update ago. Det Jumping is EXACTLY what Pyro needs, and it STILL probably isn't enough to put him at the level that he needs to be.[/QUOTE] The afterburn is great if you're playing on a dry map with few health kits. Just because it's not obscenely "overpowered" doesn't mean it's terrible.

haha wtf

[QUOTE=IDTL;30772346]The afterburn is great if you're playing on a dry map with few health kits. Just because it's not obscenely "overpowered" doesn't mean it's terrible.[/QUOTE] AKA afterburn is great is some overly specific situation that is not at all reliable. Afterburn is shit and has been shit for a really long time. Every class can minimize afterburn damage, if not outright extinguish it. Oh and if you manage to light a mob on fire and can't end up killing anyone you've given the other team a much faster Ubercharge rate. Way to go. It's fucking pathetic that the Scout, Sniper, and Engineer can inflict stronger afterburn than Pyro.

Now now guys, we all know the Pyro is way too OP to have this kind of ability. Instead, the Soldier is in clear need for some new items to buff him. We should give him items which put him to Scout speed, and give him the ability to heal himself! Because, as you all know, he got barely any health, poor mobility and a very sad damage output.

[QUOTE=IDTL;30772346]The afterburn is great if you're playing on a dry map with few health kits. Just because it's not obscenely "overpowered" doesn't mean it's terrible.[/QUOTE] That used to be the case but let's look at a list of things that counter the afterburn. Medics Milk Jarate Other Pyros Dispensers Dead Ringer Sandvich Afterburn is also pathetically weak. The only purpose it serves is to set up for flare gun crits. The only time it really kills someone is if they're ridiculously low on health. [editline]28th June 2011[/editline] Also most maps are not dry with a few health kits.

[QUOTE=FKop_Dragon;30772527]That used to be the case but let's look at a list of things that counter the afterburn. Medics Milk Jarate Other Pyros Dispensers Dead Ringer Sandvich Afterburn is also pathetically weak. The only purpose it serves is to set up for flare gun crits. The only time it really kills someone is if they're ridiculously low on health. [editline]28th June 2011[/editline] Also most maps are not dry with a few health kits.[/QUOTE] Don't forget the Demoknight shields and the Black Box.

[QUOTE=SirKai;30772636]Don't forget the Demoknight shields and the Black Box.[/QUOTE] In addition, medics will out heal burn damage, and if they have a blutsauger they can even out heal the flamethrower damage.

[QUOTE=FKop_Dragon;30772720]In addition, medics will out heal burn damage, and if they have a blutsauger they can even out heal the flamethrower damage.[/QUOTE] How about that Crossbow that let's them fully heal burn damage + 15 extra HP from across the map. Or the Ampy taunt that literally lets you counteract an entire group's worth of afterburn damage in only a few seconds. :V Go Pyro.

[QUOTE=The Party Spy;30771848]That's like calling the soldiers rocket jump or the Demos Sticky Jump OP[/QUOTE] That's an incredibly stupid point. First off, Valve designed Soldier and Demoman from the beginning to specifically have advanced mobility through the use of self propelled explosion jumps. Pyro wasn't included in on this. The current balance of TF2 would be completely thrown off if Soldier or Demoman LOST their advanced mobility. The metagame of having 2 Soldiers, 2 Scouts, 1 Demo, and 1 Medic would be completely reworked if either of the two classes lost their advanced jumps completely. The same effect would happen if another class got into the advanced jump mobility scene. The intended balance of TF2 would be forever changed if Pyro got a self-propelled jump technique. Valve spent 6 or so years in development tweaking and balancing weapon stats, movement speed, health, etc. They'd have to spend another 6 to give Pyro advanced mobility through the use of self-propelled jumping. Engineer has a half-assed jump technique which is by far completely useless. Not only does it require a Lvl 3 Sentry, but it requires you to place the sentry in a specific spot to gain the optimal mobility to get to where you want to go. Even if all these conditions were met and the Lvl 3 Sentry wasn't destroyed before you could attempt the jump, the jump would leave you dead anyways. And why is Engineer dead? Because there is special coding in the game for Soldier and Demoman to specifically receive reduced damage from their own explosives. The Engineer does not have reduced damage from sentry rockets and neither does the Pyro have reduced damage from self detonating the flare on himself. In fact, Pyro actually receives bonus damage onto himself for exploding it on himself, specifically to dissuade Pyro jumps. The Detonator was meant to be an exploding flare and absolutely nothing more. It's meant to be a side-grade equal in worth to the Shotgun or Flaregun, not the new Pyro's brean'n'butter weapon.

I like how you mention their original intends, those was thrown out the window long ago. Even Engineers can rocket jump now. But Pyro having it? A class who actually need it to ambush with his terribly short ranged weapon? God forbid! Not to mention he have to give up his only hitscan weapon to use it. I'd say that's a fair payoff.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NVb7naVj5E&feature=related[/media] Seriously this is what I always dream to do :sympathy:

Ok, I'm furious with Valve right now. The night before the thing was announced I made this GIF, hoping they would add it. [img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Flarejump1.gif[/img] Then they nerfed it before I could even use it like this in the actual game. [img]http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=964485448153&id=9691391e6edd4807b44c0d41a783ebac&url=http%3a%2f%2fwebservice.imagesauce.net%2fimage%2f120160%2f400x.jpg[/img] I guess I'll just use my Strange Shotgun instead...

[QUOTE=Doc_Fisherman;30773015][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NVb7naVj5E&feature=related[/media] Seriously this is what I always dream to do :sympathy:[/QUOTE] I don't know why but that makes me laugh so much.

[QUOTE=Joey JoJo;30772906]That's an incredibly stupid point. [/QUOTE] Allow me to make a statement. Pyro will not, under [i]any[/i] circumstance be made OP by the addition of mobility. I'll answer it with a question: what can the Pyro do when in the air? That's right, nothing. The Pyro is rendered to do nothing but throw 1 flare at someone if he/she has enough airtime to reload or just reflect incoming airshots. Soldiers, Demomen, and Scouts are not limited to a short range, they can still rain destruction from the skies. Even if you want to talk about higher ledges like the roof of B on Gravelpit, Soldier and Demoman can still bomb people from up there, Pyro would be forced to lose his positioning to take someone out because of the class' limited effective range. The Incendiary Cannon back in QWTF and TFC allowed a minute amount of mobility for the Pyro of yore, but the Pyro back then was so pathetic that it was embarrassing to be killed by one, the mobility didn't even make a difference. For an "ambush" class, the Pyro hasn't any tools to ambush with that other classes can't do themselves or do better. I'm not arguing that it needs to become a bread & butter weapon, I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be made almost worthless to be "balanced".

[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;30773040]I don't know why but that makes me laugh so much.[/QUOTE] It's the Robot Unicorn Attack music. It made me laugh too :v: [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] Also, how can they even mention it as being OP? It's not like Pyro stomped everything on beta with it... Far from! Seeing a Pyro topping the board even with the Detonator Jumping is wishful thinking.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;30773043]Allow me to make a statement. Pyro will not, under [i]any[/i] circumstance be made OP by the addition of mobility. I'll answer it with a question: what can the Pyro do when in the air? That's right, nothing. The Pyro is rendered to do nothing but throw 1 flare at someone if he/she has enough airtime to reload or just reflect incoming airshots. Soldiers, Demomen, and Scouts are not limited to a short range, they can still rain destruction from the skies. Even if you want to talk about higher ledges like the roof of B on Gravelpit, Soldier and Demoman can still bomb people from up there, Pyro would be forced to lose his positioning to take someone out because of the class' limited effective range. The Incendiary Cannon back in QWTF and TFC allowed a minute amount of mobility for the Pyro of yore, but the Pyro back then was so pathetic that it was embarrassing to be killed by one, the mobility didn't even make a difference. For an "ambush" class, the Pyro hasn't any tools to ambush with that other classes can't do themselves or do better. I'm not arguing that it needs to become a bread & butter weapon, I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be made almost worthless to be "balanced".[/QUOTE] I agree. I can't stand it when people on SPUF keep screaming "STOP WHINING, YOU JUST SUCK AT PYRO" while I'm trying to explain that a Soldier/Demoman can still poop out winbombs while they're flying through the air, whearas a Pyro is a sitting duck. Metaphorically.

[QUOTE=Benvil;30773052]It's the Robot Unicorn Attack music. It made me laugh too :v: [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] Also, how can they even mention it as being OP? It's not like Pyro stomped everything on beta with it... Far from! Seeing a Pyro topping the board even with the Detonator Jumping is wishful thinking.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they'll give the Heavy the Tomislav but they'll have the audacity to call the Beta Detonator OP?

[QUOTE=The Party Spy;30771446]Why the fuck would they put a 20% explosive damage effect on the weapon if the explosion caused from the flare usually won't affect you since you won't be flare jumping?[/QUOTE] Fucking. Seriously. I'm so mad right now I can't even see straight. Why the fuck would they do this shit?

[QUOTE=MrCasual;30773103]Fucking. Seriously. I'm so mad right now I can't even see straight. Why the fuck would they do this shit?[/QUOTE] Amusement? Money? Shutting up of annoying faggots?

[QUOTE=Spybreak;30773095]I agree. I can't stand it when people on SPUF keep screaming "STOP WHINING, YOU JUST SUCK AT PYRO" while I'm trying to explain that a Soldier/Demoman can still poop out winbombs while they're flying through the air, whearas a Pyro is a sitting duck. Metaphorically.[/QUOTE] I like how I'm still able to hold my own in a TF2 balance discussion despite not being able to play the game since November :v:

Depressing. :smith:

[QUOTE=Joey JoJo;30772906] Engineer has a half-assed jump technique which is by far completely useless. Not only does it require a Lvl 3 Sentry, but it requires you to place the sentry in a specific spot to gain the optimal mobility to get to where you want to go. Even if all these conditions were met and the Lvl 3 Sentry wasn't destroyed before you could attempt the jump, the jump would leave you dead anyways. And why is Engineer dead? Because there is special coding in the game for Soldier and Demoman to specifically receive reduced damage from their own explosives. The Engineer does not have reduced damage from sentry rockets and neither does the Pyro have reduced damage from self detonating the flare on himself. In fact, Pyro actually receives bonus damage onto himself for exploding it on himself, specifically to dissuade Pyro jumps. [/QUOTE] Engineer got an unintentional jump ability, and thus, allowed him to build in places that wasn't intended to be built upon, the biggest offender being Egypt. While he'll end up nearly dead, he'll get to his destination, toss a teleporter down, run back and take his sentry with him. Granted he doesn't die, he can create an untouchable bastion until the other team figures out how to attack it. So it is not useless, believe me. Not sure what you mean by this metagame, when its just your typical comp set-up team. [QUOTE=Clovernoodle;30771486]Go away, we're mourning the loss of the most fun you could have as Pyro in a long time.[/QUOTE] It's okay, you kids can still do it. Just borrow that Soldier's crit rocket to help you jump. Don't worry, it won't hurt if you can poof everything. [QUOTE=The Party Spy;30771446]Why the fuck would they put a 20% explosive damage effect on the weapon if the explosion caused from the flare usually won't affect you since you won't be flare jumping?[/QUOTE] So you don't spam it endlessly in your face and expect to get away with it. [QUOTE=Paradoxmoa;30771598]B-but... No. I can't believe this. It was seemingly very popular with the community. People were asking for a Pyro mobility buff for years. Saying the flare jump was too powerful is like saying the rocket jump is too powerful. This is insanity.[/QUOTE] It wasn't intended. While I agree it was rather neato in the Beta, like I said in the annoyance thread before everyone said 'no you're wrong', I'm glad this didn't make it to the official game. [QUOTE=SirKai;30772223]Hahahaha he still thinks afterburn is worth a damn. That mechanic lost use many an update ago. Det Jumping is EXACTLY what Pyro needs, and it STILL probably isn't enough to put him at the level that he needs to be.[/QUOTE] Need? Nah. What people want so they can hunt people down faster? Indeed. That's why he has a secondary mid-long range gun :v: [QUOTE=Benvil;30772475]Now now guys, we all know the Pyro is way too OP to have this kind of ability. Instead, the Soldier is in clear need for some new items to buff him. We should give him items which put him to Scout speed, and give him the ability to heal himself! Because, as you all know, he got barely any health, poor mobility and a very sad damage output.[/QUOTE] Won't argue with that, Soldier got more love in this update than any other class, save for the Demoknight players. Hell, I was surprised Medic actually got the short end of the stick when it came to getting items in his own update (Excluding Pyro and Engineer getting nearly jackshit)

[QUOTE=Spybreak;30773095]I agree. I can't stand it when people on SPUF keep screaming "STOP WHINING, YOU JUST SUCK AT PYRO" while I'm trying to explain that a Soldier/Demoman can still poop out winbombs while they're flying through the air, whearas a Pyro is a sitting duck. Metaphorically.[/QUOTE] Go to SPUF and mention Soldier/Demoman as being OP, I dare you. I once dared suggest them to just nerf explosives damage SLIGHTLY(It would be a start), because they are way too easy to use and is way too rewarding. I was literally ripped to shreds. OMFG HOW DAR U SAI SOLLY IS OP! I PWN ERRYONE WIT HIM ND HE IS FINE U JUST SUK LOL. What's even worse is... Valve Like Soldier so much themselves that asking for some balancing have become really wishful thinking. Like they weren't bad enough even with vanilla unlocks, they shower them with new gear, some even being terribly out of balance. Soldier's escaping from combat godspeed with their Equalizers(Not to mention instant kills with crits on everything but overhealed Heavies) and Demomen getting their health back by bitchslapping you with a Katana. Valve is honestly very biased around the class balance. They truly do favour some classes.

While I'm not for or against it totally, I can see why Valve would do this.

[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;30773101]Yeah, they'll give the Heavy the Tomislav but they'll have the audacity to call the Beta Detonator OP?[/QUOTE] The Tomislav was literally designed as a heavy's "fuck you" weapon to the pyro.

[QUOTE=Benvil;30773207] Valve is honestly very biased around the class balance. They truly do favour some classes.[/QUOTE] Sad but true. :frown:

[QUOTE=Benvil;30773207]Go to SPUF and mention Soldier/Demoman as being OP, I dare you. I once dared suggest them to just nerf explosives damage SLIGHTLY(It would be a start), because they are way too easy to use and is way too rewarding. I was literally ripped to shreds. OMFG HOW DAR U SAI SOLLY IS OP! I PWN ERRYONE WIT HIM ND HE IS FINE U JUST SUK LOL. What's even worse is... Valve Like Soldier so much themselves that asking for some balancing have become really wishful thinking. Like they weren't bad enough even with vanilla unlocks, they shower them with new gear, some even being terribly out of balance. Soldier's escaping from combat godspeed, and Demomen getting their health back by bitchslapping you with a Katana. Valve is honestly very biased around the class balance. They truly do favour some classes.[/QUOTE] Look how little amount of shit the Medic got before the Uber Update.