The Detonator is not glitched/bugged/or whatever and I have proof. - Games

Almost everyone had some way to jump like fucking crazy such as a rocket jump in TFC. Even the medic did...

Pyro players are big babies who don't realise what they DO have. A weapon that can instant kill near every class. The ability to easily and completely dominate the movement of every single class with airblast that can waste the most powerful ability in the game easily. The ability to reflect any projectile back to it's shooter. But no, those aren't good enough. Pierow neds a rucket jamp! :V

[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;30775370]How do you know exactly what pyros are meant to do? I don't see you on TF2's development team. It was overpowered and unintended, as said by Greg Chirlin himself in the OP.[/QUOTE] I already explained how it's not overpowered. It may have been unintended, but don't you dare try to tell me that it's overpowered without backing up your claim. [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=PSI Guy;30775439]Pyro players are big babies who don't realise what they DO have. A weapon that can instant kill near every class. The ability to easily and completely dominate the movement of every single class with airblast that can waste the most powerful ability in the game easily. The ability to reflect any projectile back to it's shooter. But no, those aren't good enough. Pierow neds a rucket jamp! :V[/QUOTE] Other classes can do those things better and with more safety, Pyro needs to get right up in someone's face to axtinguish someone which is where damage rampup will destroy him/her with ease. The only thing that's Pyro-specific is projectile deflection and afterburn extinguishing.

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;30775439]Pyro players are big babies who don't realise what they DO have. A weapon that can instant kill near every class. The ability to easily and completely dominate the movement of every single class with airblast that can waste the most powerful ability in the game easily. The ability to reflect any projectile back to it's shooter. But no, those aren't good enough. Pierow neds a rucket jamp! :V[/QUOTE] I've been playing Pyro for a long time and as time goes on the Pyro feels less and less effective. Basically all of the classes have way to put out themselves if on fire and the fact that some of the Pyro's best strategies require him to get behind his enemy make him feel more like the Spy. Degreaser+Axtinguisher "Puff and Sting" is basically suicidal as a frontal attack on most classes, reducing it to having to get behind the enemy. Backburner: Get behind the enemy or W+M1, make your choice. I use the Puff and Sting, so I know what I'm talking about. (And I used to use the Backburner before Degreaser was created)

sorry but I can go slightly higher than a scout double jump with the detonator, are you really saying you want the pyro to be able to jump as high as a soldier? of course that would be overpowered

[QUOTE=NeoDement;30775567]sorry but I can go slightly higher than a scout double jump with the detonator, are you really saying you want the pyro to be able to jump as high as a soldier? of course that would be overpowered[/QUOTE] They could have nerfed the propulsion of the Detonator then, not removed it completely. My [u]opinion[/u] is that a Detonator jump would add a new play style to the Pyro, just as the Huntsman, Chargin' targe and other weapons have done in the past.

yeah a stupid playstyle i dont want pyros in my high up unexpected areas without a SEVERE downside

[QUOTE=NeoDement;30775655]yeah a stupid playstyle i dont want pyros in my high up unexpected areas without a SEVERE downside[/QUOTE] Isn't being completely unable to do anything up there except lob potshots from afar a big enough downside?

Detonator? ZOMF NERF NAO. Tomislav? A-OK. Why is the Pyro still in the game?

[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;30775370]How do you know exactly what pyros are meant to do? I don't see you on TF2's development team. It was overpowered and unintended, as said by Greg Chirlin himself in the OP.[/QUOTE] Valve said that the pyro was meant as an ambush class. [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=NeoDement;30775655]yeah a stupid playstyle i dont want pyros in my high up unexpected areas without a SEVERE downside[/QUOTE] It takes down a third of his health not to mention he's a flying target that yells "Shoot me." [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=PSI Guy;30775439]Pyro players are big babies who don't realise what they DO have. A weapon that can instant kill near every class. The ability to easily and completely dominate the movement of every single class with airblast that can waste the most powerful ability in the game easily. The ability to reflect any projectile back to it's shooter. But no, those aren't good enough. Pierow neds a rucket jamp! :V[/QUOTE] "The most powerful ability" is worthless when dealing with people with half a brain or people who know the pyro's "most powerful ability" making him worthless as they can easily just switch to their second range and do damage, when in close range again it's worthless because they don't have a reaction time and it's relied on by luck.

The most powerful ability is the ubercharge. Dunno what you're talking about, pal.

[QUOTE=NeoDement;30775655]yeah a stupid playstyle i dont want pyros in my high up unexpected areas without a SEVERE downside[/QUOTE] the new shotgun soldier is smiling

[QUOTE=Keyblockor;30775704]Valve said that the pyro was meant as an ambush class. [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] It takes down a third of his health not to mention he's a flying target that yells "Shoot me." [editline]29th June 2011[/editline] "The most powerful ability" is worthless when dealing with people with half a brain or people who know the pyro's "most powerful ability" making him worthless as they can easily just switch to their second range and do damage, when in close range again it's worthless because they don't have a reaction time and it's relied on by luck.[/QUOTE] He's referring to the Pyro's ability to use the airblast to disrupt the most powerful thing in TF2, the ubercharge.

[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;30775904]He's referring to the Pyro's ability to use the airblast to disrupt the most powerful thing in TF2, the ubercharge.[/QUOTE] In order to do that, it requires getting close. Getting close allows the [i]invincible[/i] Ubercharge recipient to annihilate the Pyro with the damage rampup. The ability to juggle the Medic doesn't mean it's impossible for the patient to turn around and tear you a new neck unless the Pyro is selective in his/her approach and/or has team-support to focus-fire the patient.

[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;30775904]He's referring to the Pyro's ability to use the airblast to disrupt the most powerful thing in TF2, the ubercharge.[/QUOTE] Ah. Well then I can offer the same thing, as long as the person being ubercharged has half a brain you're not getting close to them and if you start airblasting the medic away the ubercharged person will follow so you don't fuck up their medic, still you might've made them waste an ubercharge but most of the time the chance to disrupt an ubercharge with their airblast is not going to succeed. I also note my arguement is based on experience based on my playstyle and the people who I play with, they're too sensible to have their medic blasted away from them.

[QUOTE=Sukor;30771516]What about the explosion apparently lighting only 1 person on fire at once? [/QUOTE] no idea what you're smoking. [url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/newdetonator.jpg]this isn't true[/url] it just needs a shitload of better timing than with stickies

[QUOTE=Suttles;30775285]You can't use projectiles to jump now, without taking more damage reflecting rockets/nades will be dangerous now.[/QUOTE] Have you taken 4th grade English? Where is your reading comprehension. Kryblockor said the Detonator has a -20% damage attribute. I copy-pasted the Detonator's stats, which doesn't include that attribute, to prove his argument wrong. Then you reply to me with something completely irrelevant to what I was saying. The only thing the Detonator's nerf does is make you take more damage from reflecting enemy rockets to rocket jump and of course make you take more damage from your own detonator flares. This nerf is much more preferable than having a straight +20% damage from Explosives, which was part of the beta stats. As long as you're careful, the nerf shouldn't harm you in any way. Hardly anyone plays Pyro with the intention of using enemy rockets to rocket jump anyways.

[QUOTE=Joey JoJo;30776175]This nerf is much more preferable than having a straight +20% damage from Explosives, which was part of the beta stats. As long as you're careful, the nerf shouldn't harm you in any way. Hardly anyone plays Pyro with the intention of using enemy rockets to rocket jump anyways.[/QUOTE] It's the [i]only[/i] advanced movement option that Pyros have available since Flarejumping was removed. It requires an enemy rocket from the right place at the right time and, even then, it's not exactly amazing to need to [b]rely on your enemies' mistakes to do something[/b].

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;30776227]It's the [i]only[/i] advanced movement option that Pyros have available since Flarejumping was removed. It requires an enemy rocket from the right place at the right time and, even then, it's not exactly amazing to need to [b]rely on your enemies' mistakes to do something[/b].[/QUOTE] not to mentionit has to be a specific class out of the other 8.

[QUOTE=Keyblockor;30776305]not to mentionit has to be a specific class out of the other 8.[/QUOTE] You could technically do a grenade jump by reflecting a grenade and crouch jumping onto the roller at the right time. You could also use a level 3 sentry rocket. Both of those are far riskier and hurt more than using a soldier's rocket, though.

Balancing suggestion. The detonator explosion minicirts vs burning players. This allows you to deal significant damage to kill larger groups of enemies or cause them to scatter. The precision and timing required to pull this off makes it less of a cheap tactic.

Technically any class can rocket jump using enemy rockets. I've been able to conveniently rocket jump as a Medic while attempting to evade a Soldier's rockets many times before. This isn't anything Pyro specific.

[QUOTE=Joey JoJo;30776358]Technically any class can rocket jump using enemy rockets. I've been able to conveniently rocket jump as a Medic while attempting to evade a Soldier's rockets many times before. This isn't anything Pyro specific.[/QUOTE] The ability to have a slight damage resistance is what makes it different (it also negates the mini-crit/critical status of the rocket). Surfing on an enemy rocket can always have disastrous results. It's more efficient to be able to control where the rocket goes and yourself than it is to just control where you go relative to the rocket.

[IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2mqls9u.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Spybreak;30776400][IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2mqls9u.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] It's funny because it's true.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;30776385]The ability to have a slight damage resistance is what makes it different (it also negates the mini-crit/critical status of the rocket). Surfing on an enemy rocket can always have disastrous results. It's more efficient to be able to control where the rocket goes and yourself than it is to just control where you go relative to the rocket.[/QUOTE] So you're really complaining now that the Detonator 'nerfed' Pyro's extremely situational ability (which likely doesn't happen more than 2 or 3 times per 20 minute match, even if you can pull it off) to rocket jump using enemy rockets now? Seriously, how much more will you guys complain? It's not enough that Pyro is an extremely hard counter to Soldier, Demoman, and Spy. It's not enough that Backburner got the airblast. It's not enough that all reflected projectiles became mini-crits. It's not enough that the Degreaser made Axtinguisher much more potent of a weapon. Pyro is NOT a shit class as most of you seem to think it is. It has a very healthy 175 HP, standard movement speed and provides invaluable utility to the team. Pyro's in a much better boat than Spy who get his shit tossed at his own face. The latest 2 knife unlocks both cut Spy's health to incredibly fragile levels, and the first knife unlock removed his ability to disguise at will. That or Engineer who hasn't gotten many viable unlocks other than the Jag and the situational Wrangler and Gunslinger. Pyro's squarely mid-tier as far as class balance seems to feel, but he's not shit bottom like you guys seem to think he is.

[QUOTE=Joey JoJo;30776509]So you're really complaining now that the Detonator 'nerfed' Pyro's extremely situational ability (which likely doesn't happen more than 2 or 3 times per 20 minute match, even if you can pull it off) to rocket jump using enemy rockets now? Seriously, how much more will you guys complain? It's not enough that Pyro is an extremely hard counter to Soldier, Demoman, and Spy. It's not enough that Backburner got the airblast. It's not enough that all reflected projectiles became mini-crits. It's not enough that the Degreaser made Axtinguisher much more potent of a weapon. Pyro is NOT a shit class as most of you seem to think it is. It has a very healthy 175 HP, standard movement speed and provides invaluable utility to the team. Pyro's in a much better boat than Spy who get his shit tossed at his own face. The latest 2 knife unlocks both cut Spy's health to incredibly fragile levels, and the first knife unlock removed his ability to disguise at will. That or Engineer who hasn't gotten many viable unlocks other than the Jag and the situational Wrangler and Gunslinger. Pyro's squarely mid-tier as far as class balance seems to feel, but he's not shit bottom like you guys seem to think he is.[/QUOTE] Spy is still damn dangerous, all it takes is one suicidal spy with his sapper to bring down an entire enemy engie nest. And don't get me started on what one good spy can do to a group of enemies who lack situational awareness. I can even show you a video of one spy taking down an entire enemy defense in both Payload and Attack/Defend. You know why I know I can find this video? Because I made one, and it was easy as shit. Saying the spy is UP is BS, yes his new knives suck, but vanilla spy is still a large threat.

[QUOTE=Keyblockor;30773342]Eh, Razorback in all honesty is a protector for idiot spies, soon as I see a sniper with that I just shoot him three times with my enforcer and he's dead :v:.[/QUOTE]Except when he's standing right behind a medic with full ubercharge healing the demo topping the scoreboard about to go past the engineer wrangling his level 3 sentry that's wrecking your team. It's a protector for chainstabs and snipers that actually use teamplay. The flare jumps being removed made me sad, yeah. I wouldn't mind something like a reload speed penalty or basically making it useless beyond the first shot if I could flare jump a medium distance for a reasonable amount of health with it. I also wouldn't mind if it didn't have splash that's even smaller than the direct hit.

[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;30776547]Spy is still damn dangerous, all it takes is one suicidal spy with his sapper to bring down an entire enemy engie nest. And don't get me started on what one good spy can do to a group of enemies who lack situational awareness. I can even show you a video of one spy taking down an entire enemy defense in both Payload and Attack/Defend. You know why I know I can find this video? Because I made one, and it was easy as shit. Saying the spy is UP is BS, yes his new knives suck, but vanilla spy is still a large threat.[/QUOTE] And I can provide many videos on any class who wrecked the other team solo. Scout uses Crit-A-Cola and Scattergun to meatshot the entire enemy team. Soldier shoots a crit-rocket and kills the entire team. Pyro reflects a crit-rocket and kills the entire team. Demoman shoots a crit-sticky and kills the entire team. Heavy gets crit-Brass Beast and mows down the entire enemy team. Engineer's Sentry wipes out an entire assault. Medic's ubercharge helps push enough to destroy a sentry and wipe the enemy team. Sniper continuously headshots the entire enemy team. Spy's sappers disable a sentry nest and backstabs the entire enemy team. Situational evidence is no proof of relative performance of the class. Besides, I'm specifically talking about how Spy has gotten 2 awful knife unlocks and 1 situationally decent knife unlock, while everyone in here seems to love complaining about how Pyro got a decent Flaregun sidegrade. Pyro for the most part has very, very good sidegrade weapons while some classes are plagued with awful sidegrades. You guys are complaining about the wrong class. Pyro is not getting continuously shafted. Other classes are.

[QUOTE=Joey JoJo;30776509]So you're really complaining now that the Detonator 'nerfed' Pyro's extremely situational ability (which likely doesn't happen more than 2 or 3 times per 20 minute match, even if you can pull it off) to rocket jump using enemy rockets now? Seriously, how much more will you guys complain?[/QUOTE] You misunderstand, I'm stating that [b]requiring[/b] an enemy Soldier, Grenade Launcher Demoman, or Level 3 sentry to have any mobility that's greater than base mobility is [i]really[/i] weak for a so-called "ambush" class. [quote]It's not enough that Pyro is an extremely hard counter to Soldier, Demoman, and Spy. It's not enough that Backburner got the airblast. It's not enough that all reflected projectiles became mini-crits. It's not enough that the Degreaser made Axtinguisher much more potent of a weapon.[/quote] Except he's not. A competent player can easily dispatch a Pyro unless caught completely offguard (even then, damage rampup is in their favor). The Backburner was shit-tier without it. Reflected projectiles becoming more potent was to make the ability seem more rewarding instead of being affected doubly by damage falloff (was due to a bug that still exists in the game's code but isn't seen at all because mini-crits negate falloff). Degreaser and Axtinguisher are bandages. You cannot truly fix a class with weapons, you need to address the core class to [i]properly[/i] balance it across the board. Valve hasn't done this because it's a large investment and it's risky, it's not desirable to invest a lot of time and effort into something that has a considerable chance of not getting past preliminary alpha stages. [quote]Pyro is NOT a shit class as most of you seem to think it is. It has a very healthy 175 HP, standard movement speed and provides invaluable utility to the team.[/quote] 175 hp and 100% movement speed is practically required with a short range primary weapon. Any slower or lower HP and he'd get shredded even when in his prime range: people would be able to escape it by running or shooting it to death (which happens already). Almost everything that the Pyro can do can be done by some other class, but better. For it's own worth, Pyro is the most cost-efficient spychecker and has a self-sacrificial (or at least incredibly risky) anti-ubercharge ability. Deflecting projectiles is a minor utility when your teammates discover the wonders of dodging. Extinguishing fires isn't that useful unless they're near death anyway, otherwise it's free Ubercharge for your team's Medic. [quote]Pyro's in a much better boat than Spy who get his shit tossed at his own face. The latest 2 knife unlocks both cut Spy's health to incredibly fragile levels, and the first knife unlock removed his ability to disguise at will. That or Engineer who hasn't gotten many viable unlocks other than the Jag and the situational Wrangler and Gunslinger. Pyro's squarely mid-tier as far as class balance seems to feel, but he's not shit bottom like you guys seem to think he is.[/quote] Dead Ringer. Enforcer. Saharan Spy set. Wrangler isn't exactly situational if the Engineer has a brain. The entirety of map balance is centered around the existence of Engineer buildings: sentries, dispensers, and teleporters play a [i]huge[/i] role in gameplay for allies and enemies (as proven by internal testing with the Repair Node). Pyro's not squarely mid-tier, but it's not complete shit either. I'd rank it at about low-middle tier as far as effectiveness goes. It may be fun to play Pyro, but the Pyro can only do so much before the other classes begin outclassing him by a long shot.