The Sandman needs it's old stats back. - Games

In my opinion the -30 health was perfect Because it makes the player focus on dodging and Valve really needs to buff the Bonk a speed boost would be good.

From the start, the sandman was a really touchy subject. Valve stated that they would never take control away from players (ie. stunning players, etc). The sandman did this, and as a result there was a huge uproar. The fact that it could stun an ubercharge made it even worse. It also made no sense at all. How could an ubercharge make you immune to rockets, yet a stupid baseball can knock you out? My idea was to make the sandman disorient players that it hits. Like some sort of wobbly druggy screen effect. The health nerf is a horrible idea and it puts me off using the Sandman. The scout is already fodder for most classes, giving him less health is stupid. So yeah. My ideal sandman stats: - Knocks out a stunball that causes the hit player to maintain control, but they are disoriented and have a harder time aiming. Does not affect ubercharged players. The ball would deal a small amount of damage, and deals double damage if it hits a player in the head. - Rate of fire decreased 25% (slower melee attacking). This way, stunned players still have a chance at attacking you, but you have the upper hand. This would make it especially useful against heavies who know how to counter a scout attack.

[QUOTE=Rambo_9;20042539]From the start, the sandman was a really touchy subject. Valve stated that they would never take control away from players (ie. stunning players, etc). The sandman did this, and as a result there was a huge uproar. The fact that it could stun an ubercharge made it even worse. It also made no sense at all. How could an ubercharge make you immune to rockets, yet a stupid baseball can knock you out? My idea was to make the sandman disorient players that it hits. Like some sort of wobbly druggy screen effect. The health nerf is a horrible idea and it puts me off using the Sandman. The scout is already fodder for most classes, giving him less health is stupid. So yeah. My ideal sandman stats: - Knocks out a stunball that causes the hit player to maintain control, but they are disoriented and have a harder time aiming. Does not affect ubercharged players. The ball would deal a small amount of damage, and deals double damage if it hits a player in the head. - Rate of fire decreased 25% (slower melee attacking). This way, stunned players still have a chance at attacking you, but you have the upper hand. This would make it especially useful against heavies who know how to counter a scout attack.[/QUOTE] You sir, are a genius!

[QUOTE=ComboTroop;20042806]You sir, are a genius![/QUOTE] Not really, this has been suggested plenty of times already.

its probably one of the better solutions. health nerfs on the scout are retarded, making enemies unable to use their weapon/unable to move is going to always receive negative criticism from players. The best way to go about the sandman is to allow players to keep control of their weapons but make them woozy or something similar. instead of nerfing the scout's health or removing his double jump, just make the melee weapon less powerful. Slower rate of fire or remove random crits.

No. Stunning isn't that bad. It happened once every 8 games but it happened on the whiniest faggots who can't dodge a fucking ball. When I get stunned it's because the scout actually predicted my path or he flanked me from behind. With the 95 health I wouldn't get notice a difference because scout is about being fast and dodging projectiles. Getting hit and dying is better than having 10 HP and just running around for health and getting killed while doing so. If you die : 10 seconds out. If you're at 10 hp : You run around for medics or health and lose about 30 seconds of your time just to not die. Stunning people was rewarding to those who could do it and made the scout interesting. I loved the old scattergun-pistol-bat loadout but ever since the scout update I've been playing with the sandman. I loved when they changed it so that it removes health instead of doublejumping and didn't really care for ubers as that was actually pretty cheap. Scout is a run and gun kind of class. You run in a room, gun what you can and get out. With the sandman you could strafe to stun anything dangerous in that room and gun it 'til he's dead. Stop saying "BUT STUNNING IS GAY I DON'T WANNA INSTA DIE". Crit rockets are worse if you're thinking like that. You see it coming too, you can dodge it too, but it goes in a straight line and if you're hit you don't get stunned, you fucking die. "But heavies !!! They don't die from crits !" Yeah and they don't die from getting stunned either. You can't kill a heavy unless he already took damage.

[QUOTE=ThePutty;20039866]I actually prefer the FaN, you can force jump with it, not to mention in unison with the pistol it's deadly.[/QUOTE] Situational.

[QUOTE=TizzYcho;20040764]Still trying to figure out what the triple jump is useful for.[/QUOTE] Triple jump is useless, Forcejump is fucking incredible.

[QUOTE=TizzYcho;20040764]Still trying to figure out what the triple jump is useful for.[/QUOTE] Not much on Valve maps. 2Fort, and maps with similar areas that are frequently accessed only by double-jumps, it helps if you mistime your jump off the bridge and accidentally fall off, causing your first jump to actually be your double jump, which causes you to rage at your space bar or the game for screwing you out of a few HP and the high ground. Custom maps, there are a few maps that have great spots to use it. On CTF_Mach4, for instance, you can get from base to base in just 2 full jumps, as well as getting from the intel room, which is lower than the balcony you normally enter through using triple jumps, up to the main level so you can get back out through the balcony.

[QUOTE=Helelos;20041921]The new stun (ghost disarm animation) is just lame. So much bitching about stuns ruined a useful and fun weapon I solely blame the Steam forums, they consist of nothing but idiotic kids and autistic man-children[/QUOTE] Don't forget the mods that ban you for having a different opinion than the rest of the group, because you're evidently "trolling" if you have a different opinion nowadays. I still think (which I have been saying since the Sandman was announced), that the stun should take them into 3rd person, and stumble around like they are a drunk in a Looney Toons episode, but still be able to shoot, but it makes it a lot harder to aim. Like being Flashbanged, but slightly less annoying.

Asking for the old stun back is stupid. Having absolutely no control over your character is not fun at all. Go ahead and ask for stunned guys to be even slower, but don't ask for them to have to stand completely still.

I was just starting to get into the SandMan too

sandman ? is that the wooden pole unlockable right?

Something's wrong when you see a soldier get stunned in the Badlands pit and the entire server stops for 10 seconds saying [quote]WHAT THE FUCK IS HE STUNNED?[/QUOTE]

I say it need to have a short-time stun on normal and longer "coward-stun" on Ubers (and, maybe overhealed enemies).

Valve needs to stop listening to every nine year old who bitches about how OP everything is.

Your biggest worry as a scout is a pyro chasing you down a hallway? Seriously? If you're smarter than a brick you'll know that pyros are basically free points to a scout.

You guys should state your opinions in the Steam Forums more. I know it's a hell hole... but it's the only place Valve checks often. So if you guys complained over there.. there would be a chance that Valve would take your opinions into consideration rather than all the numbnuts who think this new taunt is exactly how the sandman should be.

I think that perhaps an Ubercharge Paitient can be stunned, but not the medic himself. That way, the Medic can simply switch off to another paitient, if the push was well planned.

On the first day of the update, the sandman was an OP piece of shit, I don't know how people can think it should go back to how it was. 2 step guide to win any fight 1v1 as a scout. Go up close to them, stun, pull out FaN, all done.

I'm pretty happy with the current incarnation of the Sandman. Truth be told I take it more often than not. Though, unlike it's previous inception, it's FAR better paired with the Scattergun than the current FaN. Honestly though, the Sandman is a balancing NIGHTMARE. It's something neither side, giving and receiving, will ever truly be happy with. As it stands now, it's certainly not a bad unlock, though it is yet another thing to add to the long list of things that heavies dread... I'd guess it's even longer than the current list of 'Spy's bane' weapons. I doubt that the Sandman won't see further tweaks, but this current generation of Sandman is pretty decent, even if it does slightly make the Bat an undesirable choice in my book. The major health decrease of the previous generation was horrid... While the current generation isn't enough to warrent much concern. Like I said, balancing nightmare. @_@

[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;20050212]If you're smarter than a brick you'll know that pyros are basically free points to a scout.[/QUOTE] Flame + airblast, with a follow up of axtinguisher. If he tries to double jump, repeat airblast. Bam, free point.

I career pyro, nothing is more terrifying then a smart scout. Unless you can catch him in close quarters, he chooses the battlefield, and he'll always pick just outside flamer range.

[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;20051912]I career pyro, nothing is more terrifying then a smart scout. Unless you can catch him in close quarters, he chooses the battlefield, and he'll always pick just outside flamer range.[/QUOTE] A Pyro should never be anywhere without corners. Unless he is ubered.

Go back to original. Remove Uber stun. Lower Stun time. Lower weapon damage. Remove health loss. Add a crotch shot, and we have a deal.

I use the sandman all the time, I pretty much barely miss with it ever and most of my stuns result in a free kill for me. I enjoy long walks on the beach and stunning a heavy once, picking up my ball and stunning him again.

[QUOTE=Mamok Zalku;20053011] Add a crotch shot, and we have a deal.[/QUOTE] So you can reskin it to the Thor dildo?

[QUOTE=eatdembeanz;20053649]So you can reskin it to the Thor dildo?[/QUOTE] I meant the added ability to stun them by hitting them in the 'nads.

[QUOTE=Mamok Zalku;20054480]I meant the added ability to stun them by hitting them in the 'nads.[/QUOTE] Now there's a dinger for ya! Kind of an interesting idea... Maybe an automatic critical and crowd "Augh!" (Or at the least, the person hit screams their 'Critical death' scream.) if you hit your target in their happy place. I dunno if a full-on 'Moonshot' stun would work without hurricane shitstorm rearing it's ugly head... Perhaps if a Half Moonshot distance in the baby factory would cause a stun rather than retreat animation? Need to juggle this around hy head a bit. Hmmm... 6^^ Maybe pitching this on the Steam forums would be a pretty good idea... [b]Edit[/b]: Instant-kills a Demoman if he gets hit in the smiley face! Bwahahaha!

[QUOTE=ThePutty;20039146] tl;dr The Sandman needs to get nerfed even more[/QUOTE] Wait what? The sandman doesn't need to be nerfed ! you're saying the opposite of what you just said!