The Sandman needs it's old stats back. - Games

Inb4 they nerf the Sandman again because a 7-year-old gets owned by the now-shitty humiliation 'stun' (if you can even call it that now), bitches on the Steam forums, and Valve actually [i]listens[/i] once more. 5 internet cookies, double or nothing.

The sandman was ridiculously overpowered and bullshit, don't try to glorify it.

[QUOTE=TizzYcho;20040764]Still trying to figure out what the triple jump is useful for.[/QUOTE] you can't believe how useful it is on ctf_2fort. god damn i can get around the map so fast with that.

The very first incarnation was, indeed, unbalanced highly in the Scouts favor. =\ Being a career scout it was pathetically easy to get some pretty cheap kills. Lest we also forget that stunning ubers was possible... If I recall correctly. The next incarnation was the minimum stun range and stunee takes less damage incarnation. Probably one of my favorites, simply because how often a Stun + Fan + Running forward and crouching would land on my head so I could bat them from below. Very fun to preform on heavies who NEVER expect death from below. Third was just number tweaking regards to max range and I think lower damage resistance of Stunee, not much change. I think this was where it lost the stunning of Ubers though. Fourth was the 'retreat' stun if I remember correctly. Quite a shocker, the huge health penalty really killed the unlock for awhile in my eyes. Still, getting the double-jump back was nice. The current incarnation I've already discussed. Kinda undermines the regular bat a bit for me, but i don't think a health hit is really something a Scout needs. I've always wondered why Scouts get the 'They're so annoying!!!' tag slapped on them so often. Even Pyros haven't had such venomous comments cast their way as Scouts do in that regard... And they've had a damage over time Force-a-nature for quite some time! *Sigh* King of the small servers, joke of the large I guess. But I digress, even 'Minor tweaking' of the original would leave a sour taste in peoples mouths. Be it the user or receivers. I reckon that the Sandman will always remain controversial in regards to which side it's balanced towards...

[QUOTE=Keychain;20040355]A lot of Scouts used the stun offensively rather than for their own personal defense. [/QUOTE] This. This is why people bitched. Because scouts used it to get free kills rather than escape. "OHOHO STUNNED FREE KILL TIME!" Then they put in damage reduction on stuns. Didn't stop them. Then they removed uber stuns, which was a fucking horrible idea to begin with. Then so on and so on until its current state. Scouts still use it to get that free kill, instead of an escape tool. I'm not one to say 'hey stop that', but it was quite annoying, stuns being in an FPS and all. They should just scrap it and do something new with it, really. It was a bad idea from the start, and it still is. It's saved me a few times, where fleeing players actually get a chance to run instead of being immobilized 2 feet from you. Ugh. [editline]09:12AM[/editline] :ninja:'d

They should just remove it, it's a broken weapon, and it doesn't seem like it's going to be balanceable ever.

[QUOTE=ZCaliber;20056524] I've always wondered why Scouts get the 'They're so annoying!!!' tag slapped on them so often. Even Pyros haven't had such venomous comments cast their way as Scouts do in that regard... And they've had a damage over time Force-a-nature for quite some time! [/QUOTE] Something zipping in and out doing a fuckton of damage per hit while you have no chance to fight back versus some asshole in an asbestos suit blowing you back while you're on fire, even though he's not as fast and easily disposed of. [editline]09:15AM[/editline] Breaking my automerge.

Give scouts a second pistol unlock and remove the sandman forever.

Better idea: Stop making melee unlocks. Give scout secondary that lets him glide. Gimmick class go.

[QUOTE=Vaught;20056634]Better idea: Stop making melee unlocks. Give scout secondary that lets him glide. Gimmick class go.[/QUOTE] OH god yes

It just isn't a fun weapon by design. Nobody likes to have to just stand there, even for like 4 seconds, it just isn't fun. Yet Valve insist on keeping this terrible idea for a weapon, what would be more fun is not stick you into third person and have some sort of blur effect similar to the MW2 stun grenades (of course in the TF2 style) that way you can still fight back and have some control over your character, yet the scout can still have the edge.

i hated stun sandman every single scout i met just pegs the ball at you and if he misses he fucks off but if he hits you he runs up and kills you while you have NO CHANCE. You are COMPLETELY still, defenseless, and useless. I wouldnt mind overpowered, but being turned into a vegetable for ten seconds is pretty gay.

In my opinion, it would be perfect with 95 HP, stun at any range, slightly reduced stun time, none of that humiliation mode crap, and no effect on Ubers.

I think sandman just needs to be removed and replaced by a better unlockable, ofcourse not gonna happen with all the people whining...

[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;20051402]On the first day of the update, the sandman was an OP piece of shit, I don't know how people can think it should go back to how it was. 2 step guide to win any fight 1v1 as a scout. Go up close to them, stun, pull out FaN, all done.[/QUOTE] It should be like after the update where they added the distance you need to stun someone, and iirc downed the duration

Personally I think they original Sandman (with no double jump and uber stun) was the best one, on maps like goldrush or dustbowl where the double jump wasn't the most useful ability it gave the Scout the ability to push his way through and not get insta gibbed by rockets.

Sandman stun from a short distance shouldn't put them in 3rd person and let them run away. It should put them in 1st person, blur their screen, and make them walk and fire at a reduced rate for a few seconds.

[QUOTE=Lijitsu;20039291]Ahahahahahahahahahahaa... No.[/QUOTE] When the Scout update came out, the FaN was actually underpowered. Then Valve gave it a little buff, 10% more damage. And then people found out how annoying (=/= overpowered) it was, and whined to Valve. Thanks to you people who whined about it, it's really bad today.

My idea to fix the sandman? Keep everything the same and bring uberstuns back.

Somebody beat me... in a VIDEOGAME?!!! [b]HOW DARE THEY![/b] NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF!

[QUOTE=Invulnerable;20061548]When the Scout update came out, the FaN was actually underpowered. Then Valve gave it a little buff, 10% more damage. And then people found out how annoying (=/= overpowered) it was, and whined to Valve. Thanks to you people who whined about it, it's really bad today.[/QUOTE] The FANs pretty awesome now though?? The knockback actually means something now.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;20039323]Scattergun is more powerful than FaN, but lacks force/triple jump and knockback.[/QUOTE] Wrong sir, at -10% damage per pellet but 20% more pellets, the FaN is more powerful.

Assuming you land a majority of those pellets. It's like "More pellets" really means "More damage, but don't tell anyone."

It means you have more chance to miss at range.

VALVe nerfed it for a reason... it was way to OP

I don't think it is that important. In fact I feel it's better off without.

If they un-nerf it, people will be happy, but some might do this: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgrVv0w8na4[/media]

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;20087259]If they un-nerf it, people will be happy, but some might do this:[/QUOTE] Easily solved by not walking that way.

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;20075744]The more negative you are towards the Sandman, the more fun it will be to bust your ass with [B]THE CURRENT SANDMAN[/B], If I ever find you in a TF2 match in the future :smile:[/QUOTE] Bring it.

[QUOTE=gufu;20088698]Easily solved by not walking that way.[/QUOTE] True, true.