[QUOTE=NanoSquid;24440095]So much hatred in this thread. Look guys, no matter how much Valve has changed weapons, they've all retained their original characteristics. The sandman still "stuns". Natascha will keep slowing people down. Wrangler will still be used for manual control. Even if the sandvich is more limited now, it's still the sandvich.
Can't we all just get along? :love:[/QUOTE]
No
[QUOTE=scotty-furs;24440373]No[/QUOTE]
:saddowns:
[QUOTE=MendozaMan;24437995]Scouts have to get close to kill their target. A good soldier will frag you from that distance because dodging a 0.5 sec. rocket is practically impossible.
Stop assuming direct hit rockets always come from a long range.[/QUOTE]
You forget the fact that ALL Direct Hit Soldiers suck at aiming.
[QUOTE=NanoSquid;24440095]So much hatred in this thread. Look guys, no matter how much Valve has changed weapons, they've all retained their original characteristics. The sandman still "stuns". Natascha will keep slowing people down. Wrangler will still be used for manual control. Even if the sandvich is more limited now, it's still the sandvich.
Can't we all just get along? :love:[/QUOTE]
I just want the Sandvitch back to the way it was. :saddowns:
Here's a simple fix that will fix natascha without making to many people rage, make natascha's slow down based on how far away your target is, so say a spy tries to backstab you and you catch him before he gets to you, he will feel the full slow down of Natascha, while say your just keeping people away from a point and your shooting into a group, they won't be fully slowed down and can still get away.
[QUOTE=scotty-furs;24438073]Nope, was all you.[/QUOTE]
How can you be so ignorant. The competitive beta has been dead for ages (ie very little competitive feedback, if any), and all these recent nerfs have had nothing whatsoever to do with competetive players. Gunboats are universally regarded as being worse than shotgun, heavies will usually have time for eating one Sandvich (if at all), and no comp players give a shit about the Shiv since it's the melée weapon for a situational class.
These were Valve's ideas and Valve's only. The only changes suggested by comp have all been good - the blut/syringe balance, the heavy buffs and the nerfing of the sandman. And if you think the sandman was better in it's original form, god help you.
[QUOTE=Djokson;24152850]The next major update, great, so it'll probably be in December then.[/QUOTE]
I thought trading update was in Septemeber.
Source: [url]http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/65093[/url]
They could be wrong though...
[QUOTE=~Myst;24438197]You act as if you are the leader of the comp people.
"We were not responsible..."
Anyways, I personally think that valve needs to just hurry and shut out what SPUF says, because 80% of the time it's unnecessary.[/QUOTE]
What about this - if at least 20% of SPUF is objecting to something everyone else is going for, they shut out the idea, because that 20+% is more than likely the SPUFers that actually know what they're talking about.
I wish the TF2 part of SPUF had an age limit proportional to that of the game.
If the majority of the users that went there were equal to or above the age limit of TF2, the level or retarded in their suggestions would probably be toned down a bit.
[QUOTE=Simski;24445644]I wish the TF2 part of SPUF had an age limit proportional to that of the game.
If the majority of the users that went there were equal to or above the age limit of TF2, the level or retarded in their suggestions would probably be toned down a bit.[/QUOTE]
Maybe, but the largest population of the game is 15-18 years of age. Shutting out 13 years and younger would be best. Not all 14 year olds are dumb, but a lot of them are.
[QUOTE=EvilShadow777;24445710]Maybe, but the largest population of the game is 15-18 years of age. Shutting out 13 years and younger would be best. Not all 14 year olds are dumb, but a lot of them are.[/QUOTE]
Yup, and most of the people I have seen on SPUF have usually been below 15 years of age. But at 13 would probably be enough.
[QUOTE=Communist Cake;24441273]I just want the Sandvitch back to the way it was. :saddowns:[/QUOTE]
This, so much
[QUOTE=iRunner;24448451]This, so much[/QUOTE]
yes TOTALLY YES!!!!!!
but...why they nerf it in the first place, was perfect..........
One word.
SPUF
[QUOTE=El Maco;24442932]How can you be so ignorant. The competitive beta has been dead for ages (ie very little competitive feedback, if any), and all these recent nerfs have had nothing whatsoever to do with competetive players. Gunboats are universally regarded as being worse than shotgun, heavies will usually have time for eating one Sandvich (if at all), and no comp players give a shit about the Shiv since it's the melée weapon for a situational class.
These were Valve's ideas and Valve's only. The only changes suggested by comp have all been good - the blut/syringe balance, the heavy buffs and the nerfing of the sandman. And if you think the sandman was better in it's original form, god help you.[/QUOTE]
I was totally being serious and not in any way trying to mess with him.
Can't valve just make the competitive weapon stats separate from the non-competitive weapons? Wouldn't that work?
[QUOTE=Cl0cK;24452024]Can't valve just make the competitive weapon stats separate from the non-competitive weapons? Wouldn't that work?[/QUOTE]
they can do it, but when non competitive players play against competitive players, comp players going to bitch around the non competitive weapons
they want just one thing: if anyone have a ''different weapon'' they going to complain.....
[QUOTE=Hellduck;24436678]Uh no. TF2 was designed to be easy to pick up, and so that even a mute moron can play.[/QUOTE]
It was designed for a large audience consisting of both new players and competitive players, and every shade in between.
It's meant to be easy to pick up, and still fun for the comp players.
Also, balancing Natascha would be easy enough.
Make the slowdown based on class speed, so a slowed scout will still go faster than a slowed soldier.
Make the slowdown only apply when a certain number of bullets hit, to prevent it from slowing at long range.
[b]Maybe[/b] reduce the damage a bit more so it does 66% damage. Or give it a completely different flaw.
Those might work. Let's just hope with all our souls that Valve sees sense, shunning SPUF and seeing us as their favoured ones.
Options menu is OP, plz nerf :downs:
[QUOTE=XplodingNoggin;24462541]Options menu is OP, plz nerf :downs:[/QUOTE]
This isn't funny anymore.
[QUOTE=EvilShadow777;24445230]What about this - if at least 20% of SPUF is objecting to something everyone else is going for, they shut out the idea, because that 20+% is more than likely the SPUFers that actually know what they're talking about.[/QUOTE]
Far less than 20% knows what they're talking about on SPUF.
[QUOTE=GamerKiwi;24452448]It was designed for a large audience consisting of both new players and competitive players, and every shade in between.
It's meant to be easy to pick up, and still fun for the comp players.
Also, balancing Natascha would be easy enough.
Make the slowdown based on class speed, so a slowed scout will still go faster than a slowed soldier.
Make the slowdown only apply when a certain number of bullets hit, to prevent it from slowing at long range.
[b]Maybe[/b] reduce the damage a bit more so it does 66% damage. Or give it a completely different flaw.[/QUOTE]
I like the second option the best out of those three, though I'd still prefer scaling slowdown with distance. Close range = full slowdown, midrange = 40-50% slowdown and longrange = no slowdown.
Surely the fact that 90% of the tf2 players haven't complained about the heavy means its not worth nerfing.
I really don't think the Natasha is underpowered nor overpowered.
I just think that competitive players are acting like a bunch of crybabies with it comes to natasha.
It's slower at killing enemies and will put you at a much bigger risk against classes such as Soldiers, Pyros, Demomen, and Sasha Heavies if they manage to ambush or get close to you, and it eats up ammo like a motherfucker.
[QUOTE=RoBaDoB;24464907]Surely the fact that 90% of the tf2 players haven't complained about the heavy means its not worth nerfing.[/QUOTE]
SPUF has far more complainers about Natascha than they normally do when complaining about something (Not saying much, but still something worth noting), the entire competitive community complains about it, I know at least 2 major pub communities that welcome the impending nerf ánd the TF2 team themselves think it's a little too powerful right now. I'd say "90% of the TF2 players haven't complained" is a little off the mark.
[QUOTE=Simski;24464995]I really don't think the Natasha is underpowered nor overpowered.
I just think that competitive players are acting like a bunch of crybabies with it comes to natasha.
It's slower at killing enemies and will put you at a much bigger risk against classes such as Soldiers, Pyros, Demomen, and Sasha Heavies if they manage to ambush or get close to you, and it eats up ammo like a motherfucker.[/QUOTE]
It's marginally slower but far more effective. It prevents the enemy from running away by slowing the enemy to the same movement speed as the Heavy while keeping a damage output that's superior to everything but a Sasha Heavy. It even stops the Chargin' Targe's Charge, Stickyjumping and Rocketjumping along with completely shutting down Scouts with minimal effort needed from the Heavy. There is no situation where Sasha is the superior choice other than when the enemy team is full of Heavies. And that is just the Heavy. Add teammates to the Heavy to help him, and Natascha becomes even stronger.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;24437993]We were completely fine with the Sandvich as it was. SPUF was the place where people were complaining about the Sandvich.[/QUOTE]
As much as I hate competitive players, he is right.
[editline]11:02PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=GamerKiwi;24452448]It was designed for a large audience consisting of both new players and competitive players, and every shade in between.
It's meant to be easy to pick up, and still fun for the comp players.
Also, balancing Natascha would be easy enough.
Make the slowdown based on class speed, so a slowed scout will still go faster than a slowed soldier.
Make the slowdown only apply when a certain number of bullets hit, to prevent it from slowing at long range.
[B]Maybe[/B] reduce the damage a bit more so it does 66% damage. Or give it a completely different flaw.[/QUOTE]
I like the first one, but make it the other way around. Slower classes don't get slowed at all, but the faster a class is, the slower it will be slowed.
[QUOTE=GamerKiwi;24452448]
Also, balancing Natascha would be easy enough.
Make the slowdown based on class speed, so a slowed scout will still go faster than a slowed soldier.
Make the slowdown only apply when a certain number of bullets hit, to prevent it from slowing at long range.
[b]Maybe[/b] reduce the damage a bit more so it does 66% damage. Or give it a completely different flaw.[/QUOTE]
Most of these I agree with, but I gotta give a big 'FUCK NO' to making the slowdown based on class speed. Natasha was built specifically for killing Fast classes like the Scout and Medic.
As for the whole 'Pub Vs. Pro' debate. The Pros really need to see this from the Pub's side of things. All pubs see in pro games is the now infamous 'Medic, Demo, Double Solly, Double Scout' team. Where every other class (sans Sniper) is considered not good enough for pro play. Then they see the Heavy, one of the supposed bad classes, get a buff to make so that he counters a pro-class quite well, the scout. Then pub players see the pros ban weapons for said heavy just so they can back to having their precious scouts not have a reliable counter.
I'm not saying that all that I just posted in the second paragraph there is true, but that's what it sounds like, and that's what's pissing the pub players off and causing this backlash.
[QUOTE=Simski;24464995]Soldiers, Pyros, Demomen[/QUOTE]
No. You can kill a Soldier faster than he can kill you as Heavy, and that's why any good Soldier will try and find a place to hide behind to avoid direct confrontation. Natascha slows players down so much that even as a Soldier or Demo you are unlikely to win 1-on-1 against a Natascha Heavy. And that's not balanced.
The only thing I think Natascha should do is 30-35% less damage instead. That's all.
Or just have it slow faster classes.
[QUOTE=Simski;24464995]I really don't think the Natasha is underpowered nor overpowered.
I just think that competitive players are acting like a bunch of crybabies with it comes to natasha.
It's slower at killing enemies and will put you at a much bigger risk against classes such as Soldiers, Pyros, Demomen, and Sasha Heavies if they manage to ambush or get close to you, and it eats up ammo like a motherfucker.[/QUOTE]
What you forget about comp is that a heavy is never ever alone. He always has a medic, a soldier, maybe a scout and potentially the demo. A slowed down soldier will instantly be vaporized if he meets the heavy.
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