[QUOTE=Populus89;24167483]Comp players don't play the game as Valve intended it to be played so why is Valve listening to them.[/QUOTE]
Actually, valve loves it and experienced it once before the medic update.
If it "weren't intended", valve wouldn't post about it on the blog.
I think the reason the Heavy is useless in 6v6 competitive is because all the Ub3r 1337 sN1pAhZ headshot every Heavy one second after they spin up their minigun. And that can't be really changed.
Good. I think Natascha has had this coming. It really gets on my nerves.
INB4 I get boxes for having an opinion that differs from yours.
I swear when just about anyone working in game design goes to school, they take a class that instructs their minds to avoid directly answering just about every single damn question presented to them.
I don't mind Natascha being nerfed really, infact I would be OVERJOYED, I wouldn't have to be slowed down to snail speed 24/7 when Scouting, but then again I could just stun him with my Sandman since I never have it unequipped, but then again, what if I don't have my ball or something?
[QUOTE=usaokay;24157931]Yep. In a 9v9 match, I manage to dominate 8 people with only Natasha.[/QUOTE]
You must have 1, no, atleast 2 medics at all times then
Trading needs nerf pls.
/comp players after trading.
The only thing about heavy that needs fixing is the sandvich and its shitty recharge
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;24169847]Actually, the way we play is closer to TF2 as intended than pub play. See, TF2 was designed with teamwork, communications and people trying their hardest to win in mind. In pub play, all of these are rarities. Added to that, you can grab almost any competitive player from ETF2L Div5 or higher and I can almost guarantee you he will be better in terms of aim, gamesense, comms and working with the team than the vast majority of pubbers.
That is why they listen to us.
Your fun =/= our fun. Fun is subjective, not universal. I don't enjoy having someone on my team constantly trying to tauntkill people for the lols, I don't enjoy half the server going "LOL LET'S EAT SANDVICHES ON THE BRIDGE". I get my enjoyment out of people on both sides trying their hardest to win. We have just as much fun as you guys do, just a different form.
On top of that, we don't try to change the game to suit [b]our[/b] playstyle. We want all weapons to be balanced for all skill levels. Nothing more, nothing less. There's several blatantly underpowered/overpowered weapons as soon as you become decent at the game, yet because a LOT of people are not even decent at the game that means there are a lot of people complaining when a justified nerf/buff hits.
The Sandman is as strong as it's ever been minus the Überstunning. The current Daze slows people to a crawl (so much it might as well be a full stun), negates their ability to fight back (just like before) and contrary to before has no downside. -15HP changes fuck all about his matchups. He'll still take 2 rockets/pipes/shotgun shots etc. He can take a little less DoT fire but the only classes that have that are either
A. Stationary
B. Severely underpowered
C. Biggest Stun target in the game
For any Scout who can actually aim and dodge at the same time the Sandman is a complete and utter upgrade without any significant downside.
Natascha offers the upside of Sasha (huge damage output) with MASSIVE extras without having a single downside. The only time the damage reduction actually matters is against a Sasha Heavy or midrange vs a Sentry, which is a position you shouldn't be in to start with. It even eliminates one of the Heavy's weaknesses without creating a new one:
His biggest weakness is his speed, or rather his lack thereof. He moves at 110HU/sec when revved up, which is almost FOUR TIMES as slow as the Scout moves. Natascha slows the enemy down to 113HU/sec, which means that unless his aim is absolutely godawful to the point where even a W+M1 Pyro can legitimately call him out for being bad or you are next to a corner and can turn it before he can you will not escape before dying.
The Wrangler, ugh. Honestly the defensive Engineer was always fine so why they'd give him such a MASSIVE upgrade is beyond me. The unlimited range is a little shaky but if he can keep it ontarget at such a massive range he kinda deserves to deal that much damage. Rather, it's the Shield. The Sentries 2 major weakpoints have always been it's limited health and the Engineer. Through teamwork, the Engineer can practically be removed as a weakness. Shielded from random spam by combat classes, shielded from Snipers by simply placing it well, shielded from Spies by neither him nor his team being functionally retarded. If push comes to shove, you can simply Über him and he'll live. The health limit was the biggest balancing factor. However, now with the Wrangler that limit is suddenly tripled. This means a level 3 Sentry has an effective health pool of 648HP, and that's not counting the thing being repaired. With aforementioned adequate protection of the Engineer, that means that the Sentry is nigh impossible to take down.
He's not underpowered or useless in 6v6 and hasn't been since his last update.[/QUOTE]
Best first post ever.
Thank God, one of our better thinking comp. players decided to shut everyone up.
[QUOTE=MendozaMan;24154906]But I love using natascha so much, I hope to god they don't nerf it. It's perfect as it is now, it requires skill to actually aim and hit your targets for an extended amount of time because of the narrowed fire cone. That, and it is the best scout-counter in existance.
:sad:[/QUOTE]
Really? Because for the other 8 classess, it's PRETTY FREGEN ANNOYING
1 bullet from the natascha as a scout, your already dead, cant drink bonk to escape, don't have enough time to turn around and hit with sandman, might as well just press f10 and get it over with...
ITT: Retards who don't understand comp play.
[QUOTE=Kikka-2;24152344][URL]http://www.randomchatter.com/2010/08/ff-50/[/URL]
- Most complaints about Heavy about Natasha, [b]Natasha will be tweaked[/b], Robin thinks changes to Heavy are not enough for comp teams to adopt the class
[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc249/thedeathofjuantabo/reactionface.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;24169847]Actually, the way we play is closer to TF2 as intended than pub play. [/QUOTE]
While I agree with the rest of your post, this really lowered my respect for you as you come across as quite reasonable in the rest of the post.
The way you play TF2 is not how it was intended to be played. I'm pretty sure TF2 wasn't designed with only 4 classes and 6 players per team in mind. Look, I have a lot of friends who play competetively but at least they agree that they are outsiders to the main game that is "pub" play as you oh-so-condescendingly put it. If you take one glance at the game, it's filled with zany characters, cartoony visuals, flipping SANDWICHES and PISS IN JARS. It is not, at any rate, about 2 soldier, 2 scout, demoman medic combos communicating with each other like it's the military and scoring "midis" and figuring out "rollouts" here and there.
[B]Playing on public servers[/B] (not "pubbing") is just, like it or not, what TF2 is. Sandvich parties and taunting aren't seen in your average server. Not that I don't enjoy them on occasion, but acting as though they are everywhere is just arrogant. The only place I find them is on shitty AllCrits RTD servers filled with people with default Steam avatars and names like "the cake is a spy". For me at least, your average public game is just how it's done, and I see a perfectly adequate amount of communication in them. There's enough people notifying each other about spies and sentries.
I'm fine with competetive players. Just drop the pretense that you're playing the game the way it was intended. Taking away five ninths of the game is not how it's supposed to be played.
[QUOTE=Nibwoddle;24178767]
I'm fine with competetive players. Just drop the pretense that you're playing the game the way it was intended. Taking away five ninths of the game is not how it's supposed to be played.[/QUOTE]
Except that as everyone who has actually played comp. play knows, every class is used and they are not taking away 5/9ths of the game. Why comment about something when you don't know anything about it?
stop just stop
stop arguing wow
you're like children
I actually agree with the decision on nerfing/changing Natascha, it's pretty overpowered and a big fuck you to the scout whenever a somewhat competent heavy has one equipped.
Sandman could use a bit of a change to make it more fun too.
[QUOTE=Ranik;24178871]Why comment about something when you don't know anything about it?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Shounic;24175765]ITT: Retards who don't understand comp play.[/QUOTE]
Now we see why comp players are such assholes generally.
[QUOTE=Riutet;24179216]I actually agree with the decision on nerfing/changing Natascha, it's pretty overpowered and a big fuck you to the scout whenever a somewhat competent heavy has one equipped.
Sandman could use a bit of a change to make it more fun too.[/QUOTE]
I think sandman is perfect as it is now, nothing is more satisfying as a scout then to stun someone and watch a heavy mow him down
And I don't know, seriously, you sound like you were fighting a Wrangler Engineer/ a Natascha Heavy like you were alone.
Personally, I never had a problem with these kind of players (even on Highlander). You just need to re-evaluate your tactic. That's all.
[editline]11:37AM[/editline]
And it's like you guys had never a plan B or something like that
[QUOTE=ADT;24179330]Now we see why comp players are such assholes generally.[/QUOTE]
Uh, I don't think it's assholeish to tell people to not comment on things when it's [i]obvious[/i] they don't know anything about it. You shouldn't comment about stuff you don't know anything about, especially when you say it in such a factual manner like he did.
Learn about it, educate yourself, actually try it, then make an educated opinion. This is how mature and intelligent people do things. Saying stuff like that in a factual manner spreads blatant lies, and makes you no better than the competitive players who have pretty much never played in a pub and make assumptions about them too.
[QUOTE=Ranik;24179495]Uh, I don't think it's assholeish to tell people to not comment on things when it's [i]obvious[/i] they don't know anything about it. You shouldn't comment about stuff you don't know anything about, especially when you say it in such a factual manner like he did.
Learn about it, educate yourself, actually try it, then make an educated opinion. This is how mature and intelligent people do things. Saying stuff like that in a factual manner spreads blatant lies, and makes you no better than the competitive players who have pretty much never played in a pub and make assumptions about them too.[/QUOTE]
No, I mean, it's the way you sound like a elistist that makes me angry. I don't see why comp. play make you "superior" (intelligent, mature, great player, etc... like you said) than everyone else.
So stop this pretentious manner, and talk like a normal person.
[editline]11:47AM[/editline]
Look yourself again, your post is all about: "We know everything better than you, but you have to shut the hell up because we are more intelligent and mature than you".
If you don't sound like an elistist asshole, what is then?
[editline]11:49AM[/editline]
Don't know if Higlander servers are considered as competitive play for you.
:v:
he's not. i don't understand where you get these from, and as it seems you are getting all these simply because he talks in a tad more complicated manner then you do? And stop jumping to conclusions, your second edit is just stupid.
You don't help neither, just jumping on conclusions too
At least, if I'm not entirely agreed with BuffaloBill, he explained a lot of things without saying "lol mature/superior, you know nothing so stuf"
TF2 was balanced for 12 on 12
Don't give a fucking about you guys communicating and everything. But it was clearly said that TF2 was balanced for 12 on 12.
6v6 Competitive players can't really talk about balance when the're not in the right environment for using the weapons.
[editline]06:04AM[/editline]
Also both sides are retarded. Competitive players have fun and Casual players have fun. Public servers are not SANDWICH PARTIES. In fact that has never happened to me in a regular game. Normally, when I'm on a public server, one team actually tries to win. Really !
Also the wrangler is a perfectly fine weapon. It's not a "Massive upgrade" or anything. First of all by having it you sacrifice your pistol. The pistol is really useful for finishing off target. Second of all enemies can easily sneak up on you if you're not looking and kill you and your sentry instantly. Then there's the aspect that if a spy comes to you he can actually stab you first fairly easily and then sap.
With a regular sentry you have to sap first (level 3). Then there's the fact you're gonna run out of ammo and need to disable the sentry.
[QUOTE=Holymackeral;24172724]Really? Because for the other 8 classess, it's PRETTY FREGEN ANNOYING
1 bullet from the natascha as a scout, your already dead, cant drink bonk to escape, don't have enough time to turn around and hit with sandman, might as well just press f10 and get it over with...[/QUOTE]
That's why most ppl hate competitive player's. 1 bullet from natascha as a scout, F10 and then you run off to bitch and whine to Robin on how the game is not balanced.
"SANDMAN IS OP! NERF IT ROBIN!"
"Sandwich doesn't require skill! NERF IT!"
"Natasha is UP, tweak it!"
"NATASHA IS OP! NERF IT!"
You disgust me.
5. Seriously: How much longer till HL2:ep3!
[LIST]
[*]About a foot.
[/LIST]
Oh wow. :v:
[QUOTE=REMBER;24179812]That's why most ppl hate competitive player's. 1 bullet from natascha as a scout, F10 and then you run off to bitch and whine to Robin on how the game is not balanced.
"Sandwich doesn't require skill! NERF IT!"
"Natasha is UP, tweak it!"
"NATASHA IS OP! NERF IT!"
You disgust me.[/QUOTE]
???
When has comp players bitched to robin? They just came up with thier own fix, not to use it.
and leagues =/= comp players.
Comp players don't make the decisions, the leagues do.
[QUOTE=Batmoutarde;24179711]TF2 was balanced for 12 on 12
Don't give a fucking about you guys communicating and everything. But it was clearly said that TF2 was balanced for 12 on 12.
6v6 Competitive players can't really talk about balance when the're not in the right environment for using the weapons.
[editline]06:04AM[/editline]
Also both sides are retarded. Competitive players have fun and Casual players have fun. Public servers are not SANDWICH PARTIES. In fact that has never happened to me in a regular game. Normally, when I'm on a public server, one team actually tries to win. Really !
Also the wrangler is a perfectly fine weapon. It's not a "Massive upgrade" or anything. First of all by having it you sacrifice your pistol. The pistol is really useful for finishing off target. Second of all enemies can easily sneak up on you if you're not looking and kill you and your sentry instantly. Then there's the aspect that if a spy comes to you he can actually stab you first fairly easily and then sap.
With a regular sentry you have to sap first (level 3). Then there's the fact you're gonna run out of ammo and need to disable the sentry.[/QUOTE]
:golfclap:
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