New Robin Walker interview - Games

"I think (weapon X) is OP/UP, Valve should (personal opinion)" Also if you cant hit someone who's stunned you shouldn't probably even be playing Scout.

[QUOTE=ADT;24179558]No, I mean, it's the way you sound like a elistist that makes me angry. I don't see why comp. play make you "superior" (intelligent, mature, great player, etc... like you said) than everyone else. So stop this pretentious manner, and talk like a normal person. [editline]11:47AM[/editline] Look yourself again, your post is all about: "We know everything better than you, but you have to shut the hell up because we are more intelligent and mature than you". If you don't sound like an elistist asshole, what is then? [editline]11:49AM[/editline] Don't know if Higlander servers are considered as competitive play for you.[/QUOTE] Good job making random shit up. I didn't say jack about me being superior to anyone else, I told a guy who obviously didn't know anything about competitive play to not talk about it (and the way he worded his post, he was talking in a very definitive way, like he did know) if he didn't know about it. That's not being an elitist asshole, that's called asking someone to be educated when they talk about something. I don't know jack shit about making models, you don't see me talking to modelers and talking about how X function is useless and to never use it as if I *did*. Look at *my* post again, and think about it. Are you seriously going to defend people's rights to state things as fact, when they know absolutely zero about the topic at hand (defend ignorance in other words)? I'm not better than anyone else in this topic, we're all equals, but that doesn't mean you get to say that 5 classes basically don't exist in competitive play when that's blatantly false and anyone who has spent a small amount of time in the 6v6 format could tell you that. Jesus man, even Robin Walker talks about the utilities and how they're used in the podcast and he doesn't even play the format with any regularity. If you are, then you are also defending Bulletbill's post about public play being all sandvich parties and crap, because that was also blatantly false being someone who regularly pubs I know this isn't true. I'm all for people giving their opinions, but at least be educated about the topic at hand when you do it, and if you aren't educated, don't state things as if you are. Is that too much to ask? [quote]That's why most ppl hate competitive player's. 1 bullet from natascha as a scout, F10 and then you run off to bitch and whine to Robin on how the game is not balanced. "Sandwich doesn't require skill! NERF IT!" "Natasha is UP, tweak it!" "NATASHA IS OP! NERF IT!" You disgust me.[/quote] Except Robin is talking about the community in general (comp + pubs) there, and public players by far are the most "vocal" about the issue, as the competitive players just ban the weapon so they don't have to deal with it. Public servers can do this if admins were so inclined, however it'd be hard to advertise weapon bans as most server names are already pretty gigantic, among other reasons.

[QUOTE=ADT;24179330]Now we see why comp players are such assholes generally.[/QUOTE] The first comment is valid, and the second comment is from a single person. Way to generalize.

Fuck the SPUF , we may not be competitive players but atleast we dont go crying to Robin when natascha heavies kill us , that weapon is so easy to avoid , just keep your range! It`s weaker for a reason. Next thing you know Sasha`s gonna get a nerf too , and what the fuck have they done to the pyro?

[QUOTE=Ranik;24180324]Good job making random shit up. I didn't say jack about me being superior to anyone else, I told a guy who obviously didn't know anything about competitive play to not talk about it (and the way he worded his post, he was talking in a very definitive way, like he did know) if he didn't know about it. That's not being an elitist asshole, that's called asking someone to be educated when they talk about something. I don't know jack shit about making models, you don't see me talking to modelers and talking about how X function is useless and to never use it as if I *did*. Look at *my* post again, and think about it. Are you seriously going to defend people's rights to state things as fact, when they know absolutely zero about the topic at hand (defend ignorance in other words)? I'm not better than anyone else in this topic, we're all equals, but that doesn't mean you get to say that 5 classes basically don't exist in competitive play when that's blatantly false and anyone who has spent a small amount of time in the 6v6 format could tell you that. Jesus man, even Robin Walker talks about the utilities and how they're used in the podcast and he doesn't even play the format with any regularity. If you are, then you are also defending Bulletbill's post about public play being all sandvich parties and crap, because that was also blatantly false being someone who regularly pubs I know this isn't true. I'm all for people giving their opinions, but at least be educated about the topic at hand when you do it, and if you aren't educated, don't state things as if you are. Is that too much to ask? Except Robin is talking about the community in general (comp + pubs) there, and public players by far are the most "vocal" about the issue, as the competitive players just ban the weapon so they don't have to deal with it. Public servers can do this if admins were so inclined, however it'd be hard to advertise weapon bans as most server names are already pretty gigantic, among other reasons.[/QUOTE] Get your ass back to playing CS:S and MW2. And stop ruining a game that was meant to be fun.

[QUOTE=Ranik;24179495]Uh, I don't think it's assholeish to tell people to not comment on things when it's [i]obvious[/i] they don't know anything about it. You shouldn't comment about stuff you don't know anything about, especially when you say it in such a factual manner like he did. Learn about it, educate yourself, actually try it, then make an educated opinion. This is how mature and intelligent people do things. Saying stuff like that in a factual manner spreads blatant lies, and makes you no better than the competitive players who have pretty much never played in a pub and make assumptions about them too.[/QUOTE] You guys gave up your lives for a video game , how elite is that? Personally i think you are a tad bit illiterate , sir. You people take this game to seriously , thats what makes annoyng you the best thing about the game , ask JIRX. Edit : What the guy above me said.

OMFG u gys i got a OMFGBBQ 360 NO-SCOPE in tf2 tday. I'm so fcing skilled, pro natasha is OP it iz not skill baseed i can't noscope wjile natasha heavy's are running around OMG Robin nerf it! NErf the sandvish while you'r at it. So i can PwN some Moar n00bs!

[QUOTE=Hell-met;24180393]The first comment is valid, and the second comment is from a single person. Way to generalize.[/QUOTE] I said "generally" because I know some comp. players who are nice people, not idiots like Ranik or Shounic.

You guys are being colossal dicks about this. Competitive players have fun in a different way than you do. This doesn't make them fun-hating elitist assholes who talk down on everyone. Some of you guys are being bigger jackasses to the comp. players than any of the comp. players in this thread are being to you.

[QUOTE=ADT;24180680]I said "generally" because I know some comp. players who are nice people, not idiots like Ranik or Shounic.[/QUOTE] Carnage is nice too :3: [editline]11:19AM[/editline] [QUOTE=KarmaPolice;24180697][b]colossal dicks[/b][/QUOTE] Welcome to facepunch.

[QUOTE=KarmaPolice;24180697]You guys are being colossal dicks about this. Competitive players have fun in a different way than you do. This doesn't make them fun-hating elitist assholes who talk down on everyone. Some of you guys are being bigger jackasses to the comp. players than any of the comp. players in this thread are being to you.[/QUOTE] Their fun =/= our fun. They ruin our fun by making Robin change weapon stats.

And I defend just BuffaloBill by the fact he can explain things without problem, even I'm not agreed with him [editline]01:20PM[/editline] -Damn broke automerge-

I think Robin should just give the comp players all the VALVe guns , maybe then they will leave our guns alone?

[QUOTE=REMBER;24180723]Their fun =/= our fun. They ruin our fun by making Robin nerf weapons.[/QUOTE] They don't make Robin do jack shit. The TF2 crew gets just as much - actually, scratch that, much less feedback from comp. players than they do pub players (which is why they made the competitive beta), and they don't bend to the competitive players' every whim. They have never, ever made changes that negatively affect pub play just because comp. players complained about it. This is just a lie spread by people like you who are looking for more excuses to irrationally bitch about competitive players.

[QUOTE=Obernah!;24180752]I think Robin should just give the comp players all the VALVe guns , maybe then they will leave our guns alone?[/QUOTE] Maybe when cod7 comes out they'l leave us alone. For a lil while at-least. [editline]11:25AM[/editline] [QUOTE=KarmaPolice;24180773]They don't make Robin do jack shit. The TF2 crew gets just as much - actually, scratch that, much less feedback from comp. players than they do pub players (which is why they made the competitive beta), and they don't bend to the competitive players' every whim. They have never, ever made changes that negatively affect pub play just because comp. players complained about it. This is just a lie spread by people like you who are looking for more excuses to irrationally bitch about competitive players.[/QUOTE] *cough*Sandman*cough* Sandwich*cough*

[QUOTE=KarmaPolice;24180773]This is just a lie spread by people like you who are looking for more excuses to irrationally bitch about competitive players.[/QUOTE] So explain me why competitive players are making arguments about some weapons they considered as op/up, if they were innocent all along? Or then just ignored the "lies", like you said? That doesn't make any sense.

[QUOTE=REMBER;24180784]*cough*Sandman*cough* Sandwich*cough*[/QUOTE] The Sandman was bullshit to everyone (Don't act like it wasn't. Almost everyone hated it.) and comp. players never cared about the Sandvich. [QUOTE=ADT;24180811]So explain me why competitive players are making arguments about some weapons they considered as op/up, if they were innocent all along? Or then just ignored the "lies", like you said? That doesn't make any sense.[/QUOTE] The "lie" is that comp. players have more say-so in what Valve does to the game than anyone else. Just because comp. players whine about a weapon doesn't mean Valve will change it, unless they feel the changes work better in pub. play as well.

[QUOTE=KarmaPolice;24180847]The Sandman was bullshit to everyone (Don't act like it wasn't. Almost everyone hated it.) and comp. players never cared about the Sandvich. The "lie" is that comp. players have more say-so in what Valve does to the game than anyone else. Just because comp. players whine about a weapon doesn't mean Valve will change it, unless they feel the changes work better in pub. play as well.[/QUOTE] I liked it , it worked great against the Natascha heavies that all the comp scouts hate so much , that`s what balance is about , i think they should go play CoD where balance is like lady gaga`s penis , everyone says there is one , but there actually isint.

[QUOTE=ADT;24180811]So explain me why competitive players are making arguments about some weapons they considered as op/up, if they were innocent all along? Or then just ignored the "lies", like you said? That doesn't make any sense.[/QUOTE] What arguments? These guys actually claim weapons such as the directhit are underpowered, while most of the people die to it and believe nothing can be done to stop it.

[QUOTE=KarmaPolice;24180847]The Sandman was bullshit to everyone (Don't act like it wasn't. Almost everyone hated it.) and comp. players never cared about the Sandvich. The "lie" is that comp. players have more say-so in what Valve does to the game than anyone else. Just because comp. players whine about a weapon doesn't mean Valve will change it, unless they feel the changes work better in pub. play as well.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Robin;24180847]As I mentioned above, we try to broaden the less used classes a little, while still keeping them useful to the player type they're designed for.[/QUOTE] Making comp players use less used classes - Tweak weapon stats Still keeping USEFUL to the player type they're designed for - Useful =/= fun. NORMAL PPL DON'T HAVE FUN BECAUSE THEY WON AND PWNED THE N00B'S LIKE COMP PLAYERS. Reducing the fun for the pub player's by tweaking the weapon stats will add more comp player to tf2 = More weapon tweaks. = tf2 will turn in to mw2 I don't see a sentence where Robin said he will keep the game fun for normal player's. Comp Play ruins every game!

[QUOTE=REMBER;24180538]Get your ass back to playing CS:S and MW2. And stop ruining a game that was meant to be fun.[/QUOTE] Wow. [quote]You guys gave up your lives for a video game , how elite is that? Personally i think you are a tad bit illiterate , sir. You people take this game to seriously , thats what makes annoyng you the best thing about the game , ask JIRX. Edit : What the guy above me said. [/quote] A lot of competitive players (especially on the upper end) don't play the game all that much. People like Carnage and such have awesome lives, and are all adults with jobs, friends, their own place, etc. Also a lot of comp. players don't take the game very seriously at all, it's meant to be fun, some people just have more fun in an organized manner than random chaos. It's like trying to tell NBA players that they don't have fun playing the game their way, only way to have fun playing basketball is 2 on 2s in public areas - if they didn't have fun playing the game, they wouldn't play, they just have fun playing with their team and being organized vs other teams that are also organized. [quote]I said "generally" because I know some comp. players who are nice people, not idiots like Ranik or Shounic. [/quote] Yes, I'm the one being an idiot, not the guy telling me to get the fuck out when I haven't insulted anyone (just because I'm a competitive player) or the guy who didn't know what he was talking about. Shounic shouldn't have called you guys retards. Almost everyone in the competitive community is nice. Almost everyone in the competitive community (and well, ANY community ever) would tell people to look into what they're talking about and GET THE FACTS - that's all I did. Don't talk about stuff you don't know. If you don't know something, look it up, try it out, or ask someone who DOES know, and get educated. You wouldn't like it at all if I said something blatantly wrong about something you really like. In no way does competitive play remove 5/9ths of the game. Every class is used when the situation is right, as Robin said some classes are just used less than others - but when they're used right, the utility classes can be absolutely devastating and win people matches. [quote]Their fun =/= our fun. They ruin our fun by making Robin change weapon stats. [/quote] Competitive players don't have to get Robin to change weapon stats because they just the ban the weapon and don't have to deal with it ever again. If Valve changes the stats, hey that's great, they'll re-evaluate it, but no one cares if Valve does or not. Notice how Robin says they will tweak Natasha but didn't say that about the Wrangler even though both are banned? That's because Natasha is complained about by a lot of people, and the Wrangler doesn't have enough feedback from every side. Honestly, the Wrangler is pretty balanced for public play, could probably use a few tweaks here or there, but in public play you have the man power to deal with that, so I'd be surprised if Valve did anything with it. [quote]They don't make Robin do jack shit. The TF2 crew gets just as much - actually, scratch that, much less feedback from comp. players than they do pub players (which is why they made the competitive beta), and they don't bend to the competitive players' every whim. They have never, ever made changes that negatively affect pub play just because comp. players complained about it. This is just a lie spread by people like you who are looking for more excuses to irrationally bitch about competitive players. [/quote] This! [quote]*cough*Sandman*cough* Sandwich*cough* [/quote] Valve decided that Sandman was too strong on their own based on feedback from both competitive & public players, plus it also removed something that made the Scout unique, removing class identity. The Sandvich is something that competitive players actually like, and it was actually buffed since you can still get Sandviches back by picking up health pickups while at full health OR by waiting, contrary to the update notes. [quote]So explain me why competitive players are making arguments about some weapons they considered as op/up, if they were innocent all along? Or then just ignored the "lies", like you said? That doesn't make any sense. [/quote] Yes because having an opinion and making arguments about unlocks is the exact same thing as bitching to Robin Walker.

[QUOTE=Ranik;24181054]Competitive players don't have to get Robin to change weapon stats because they just the ban the weapon and don't have to deal with it ever again.[/QUOTE] Yes, competitive players don't have to get Robin to change weapon because he will do it on his own. Because for him competitive players are more important than pub player's. He will see that comp players don't use a certaint weapon ant try and make them use it by tweaking it. Tweaking a weapon to make it comp play friendly will make it not fun to use in normal play. Remember the times when games were about having fun? Fun as in the game-play process. [editline]11:59AM[/editline] [QUOTE=REMBER;24180538]Get your ass back to playing CS:S and MW2. And stop ruining a game that was meant to be fun.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=REMBER;24181168]Yes, competitive players don't have to get Robin to change weapon because he will do it on his own because for him competitive players are more important than pub player's. He will see that comp players don't use a certaint weapon ant try and make them use it by tweaking it. Tweaking a weapon to make comp play friendly will make it not fun to use in normal play. Remember the times when games were about having fun?[/QUOTE] Except that Valve has never, and will never, ever make a change for competitive play that would be bad for public play. Almost every single idea put forward in the Competitive Beta were ideas by Valve, they just got feedback on it from Comp. players (both from a competitive and public side, as almost every single competitive player also plays in public servers). I do remember when games were about having fun, since that's why I and everyone else plays them, and clearly [b]Valve[/b] feels (and agrees with the sentiment) that the Natasha is not very fun for everyone right now, and is a little bit too strong. Valve is not a little girl that can just be persuaded to do everyones bidding, they read TONS of feedback and suggestions each and every day, but they're big boys who make their own decisions based on all the feedback + testing they receive and do. Edit: I dare you to name [b]3[/b] changes that competitive players have FORCED Robin Walker to make that made public play less fun. Please provide proof that competitive players (and ONLY competitive players) [i]forced[/i] Robin Walker to make these changes (e-mails, death threats, whatever) and demonstrate + explain how this made public play less fun. Surely since you're so sure of this, you have proof, and this isn't just heresay or illogical hatred, right?

It's good to see Robin actually saying something instead of leaving us in the dark that's for sure.

just to clear my name, i'm sorry to call you guys retards, but as said by karma police you guys are being real colossal dicks about this. But seriously, why is it so hard for you guys to understand this?

Honestly you guys are perfectly fine with the Natasha as it is right now? Have any of you ever went against a Natasha? This whole thread is just competitive bashing for no reason. If Natasha was getting tweaked without it getting banned from CEVO or whatever, this thread would have a lot less posts.

I'm using Natascha over Sasha as a Heavy.

What is the point in comp? TF2 doesnt deserve this abuse :saddowns:

[QUOTE=REMBER;24180784] *cough*Sandman*cough* Sandwich*cough*[/QUOTE] You can't blame every nerf on the competitive community.

Imagine if Natasha had been balanced properly in the first place. Would you all be complaining if it were always as it is going to become? Short answer: No. Long answer: No, because you wouldn't have it's current incarnation to compare it to. You're just whining because you can't do exactly what it is you accuse competitive players of being unable to do- adapt. You won't listen to me, instead you'll mention FUN and HAVING A LIFE and HOW THE GAME WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED (I KNOW BECAUSE THE WAY I PERSONALLY WANT IT TO BE PLAYED IS THE WAY IT IS MEANT TO, NOT HOW VALVE DESIGNS IT) etc etc. That's fine, I doubt I'll change anyone's mind here- yours are already made up.