New Robin Walker interview - Games

[QUOTE=cringe;24197519]Would you all be complaining if it were always as it is going to become?[/QUOTE] ?

[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;24197751]?[/QUOTE] "It" being Natasha.

"Would you all be complaining if Natasha were always as it is going to become?" ?

[QUOTE=Ranik;24181054]Wow.[/QUOTE] I can't stress this enough[B], [/B]I don't give a shit if someone plays competetively. I even play it myself on occasion (so my opinion is non "uneducated", my experience of competetive play is just different to yours).[B] But for the last fucking time [U]public servers are not just random chaos.[/U][/B] I don't know where you got this idea from. For christ's sake, there's nothing wrong with competetive people as long as they just [B][U]accept that the way you play is not the norm[/U][/B]. And will you people stop using the term "pub"? Why can't you just call it "normal TF2"? You use "pub" in such a condescending manner it's as if you're from some higher existence or something. Get over yourself. Seriously.

[QUOTE=REMBER;24180784]Maybe when cod7 comes out they'l leave us alone. For a lil while at-least. [editline]11:25AM[/editline] *cough*Sandman*cough* Sandwich*cough*[/QUOTE] I play heavy on particular maps in competitive games and the change Valve has made to the sandvich, which I didn't see coming at all, has actually improved its utility, especially for giving to other people, since the aspect which was nerfed was the eating taunt, while the dropping utility of the sandvich was buffed incredibly. You do realise the only real nerf is that eating it normally loses you the sandvich for the timer, which can be replaced by any health pack at the end of the taunt (since presumably, you will be at full health), while the drop can be replaced by both a health pack at full health as well as the timer now. While I think Valve should make it so the taunt doesn't take the sandvich away if you have 300 health or more and don't take damage in the duration of the taunt, so the sandvich picnics may continue, if you have to use the taunt so often, you may need more than a sandvich to keep you alive. You seem to be making out that the change was a 'nerf' instigated by competitive players while it actually seems to be better in the end.

[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;24198579]"Would you all be complaining if Natasha were always as it is going to become?" ?[/QUOTE] Would you all be complaining if Natasha were always as Natasha is going to become (assuming it gets changed in a positive direction that is also comp player friendly)

[QUOTE=Nibwoddle;24200159]I can't stress this enough[B], [/B]I don't give a shit if someone plays competetively. I even play it myself on occasion (so my opinion is non "uneducated", my experience of competetive play is just different to yours).[B] But for the last fucking time [U]public servers are not just random chaos.[/U][/B] I don't know where you got this idea from. [/quote] That's what most public servers are though, by a huge and wide margin if you check server stats out. Yeah there's other stuff to it sure, but it's a vast majority of the reason why people play pubs lol. There's too many public servers out there all running different versions and rules to say [i]every single thing to pubs[/i]. [quote]For christ's sake, there's nothing wrong with competetive people as long as they just [B][U]accept that the way you play is not the norm[/U][/B]. And will you people stop using the term "pub"? Why can't you just call it "normal TF2"? You use "pub" in such a condescending manner it's as if you're from some higher existence or something. Get over yourself. Seriously.[/QUOTE] First, copying myself from another topic ([url]http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=23823699&postcount=543):[/url] [quote]The term Pubber is in NO WAY offensive. If you think it is, it is your own fault. The term pubber has been around since Counter-Strike (maybe longer!) and is derived from the word "pub", you know, those bars that serve alcoholic drinks IRL. The reasoning is because a pub irl is technically called a Public House and the servers you play on are Public Servers, people come in and get alcohol/play the game in a low pressure & fun environment. That's it, that's literally the reason, there is nothing offensive or derogatory about it. Competitive players (usually, even the top players play on pubs sometime or play more modded based things like Prop Hunt/Randomizer/DM Mod/Ammomod/etc) play on private servers so the analogy doesn't quite fit since pubs are public IRL. Pretty much every comp. player comes from public server play.[/quote] If you feel like people are using it in a manner that is condescending, maybe you shouldn't attach bad meanings to the word, there is nothing wrong with being a pubber. Second, there are public servers that are so heavily modded and distorted that they don't resemble this "normal TF2" (lol) as far as you can get. Third, [quote]There's no one way this game was "intended" to be played as, and I'm sure the people who say this make the people at Valve sad. Valve is a company who completely embraces the concept of modding, changing their games, adding/removing/modifying features the way you want, there's only one right way to play TF2 (or any Valve game), and [b]that's the way that you have the most fun with[/b]. Valve isn't Activision who gives you Modern Warfare 2 or something, they want people to customize, screw around, etc. [/quote] ok bye :p

[QUOTE=Nibwoddle;24200159]I can't stress this enough[B], [/B]I don't give a shit if someone plays competetively. I even play it myself on occasion (so my opinion is non "uneducated", my experience of competetive play is just different to yours).[B] But for the last fucking time [U]public servers are not just random chaos.[/U][/B] I don't know where you got this idea from. For christ's sake, there's nothing wrong with competetive people as long as they just [B][U]accept that the way you play is not the norm[/U][/B]. And will you people stop using the term "pub"? Why can't you just call it "normal TF2"? You use "pub" in such a condescending manner it's as if you're from some higher existence or something. Get over yourself. Seriously.[/QUOTE] There is nothing condescending about the term "pub" and you're reading into things too much. It IS random chaos, with very little controlled communication. We all play in pubs, regardless of our standing in comp tf2. We understand what pubs are like, as we play in them regularly. Some of us even belong to pub communities. pub is just short for public dude, relax. And it has nothing to do with the whole 6v6 format, and more to do with the whole "balancing classes around their most effective use and ability due to a higher level of skill on the whole." Again, don't be offended about someone saying the skill level is higher in competitive play, it's just a game. Relax. This isn't an insult either. The skill level in anything done at that level (literally anything!) is going to be higher, as it involves people more interested in it and taking it more seriously. They still have fun doing it, as fun is the only reason they do it. They just like a harder degree of competition, hence the term "comp." You have not played at the top levels of comp play. I imagine you haven't done much at all if you say you did it occasionally other than maybe make an STA 8v8 team or something, which is neat and fun and all but not really grounds to say you're a competitive player. You are hating on something for no reason, and now complaining about how the game you play is changing (the same game we all play!) It's just strange. Anything balanced around the top levels of play will still remain balanced in lower levels. It's still going to be fun for everyone, but by catering to the people who play it at the highest level, it becomes a product EVERYONE can enjoy, instead of just something some people enjoy and others have issues with.

[QUOTE=Ranik;24201134]That's what most public servers are though, by a huge and wide margin if you check server stats out. Yeah there's other stuff to it sure, but it's a vast majority of the reason why people play pubs lol. [/QUOTE] Um, no. The only times I've found a normal server to be chaotic is when it's more than 24 players. I stopped playing after about 15 minutes because that's all there was to the match, was chaos. That's not fun, because nobody tries to actually do anything during the match, they just run around and spam M1 to get kills. In a 12 v 12 match, you get people working together with different styles of play, different tactics and usually wildly varying skill levels, resulting in a game that isn't over just because Team A got to the middle point 5 seconds before Team B. People will do more crazy shit, which results in more outlandish wins or spectacular failures, which results in more fun to be had - either by winning with such a crazy idea, or laughing at the guy who failed so horribly. Just because we do stupid shit intentionally some times, or actually use our melee weapons and taunt kills, doesn't mean all normal public matches are pure chaos.

[QUOTE=Lijitsu;24201377]Um, no. The only times I've found a normal server to be chaotic is when it's more than 24 players. I stopped playing after about 15 minutes because that's all there was to the match, was chaos. That's not fun, because nobody tries to actually do anything during the match, they just run around and spam M1 to get kills. In a 12 v 12 match, you get people working together with different styles of play, different tactics and usually wildly varying skill levels, resulting in a game that isn't over just because Team A got to the middle point 5 seconds before Team B. People will do more crazy shit, which results in more outlandish wins or spectacular failures, which results in more fun to be had - either by winning with such a crazy idea, or laughing at the guy who failed so horribly. Just because we do stupid shit intentionally some times, or actually use our melee weapons and taunt kills, doesn't mean all normal public matches are pure chaos.[/QUOTE] "chaos" is a term being used to describe public play in comparison to competitive play. Compared to competitive play, I would call pub play "chaotic." People are all trying to do their own things, not working entirely together calling literally everything they see at all times (at the same time!) processing all that information while working on fighting their own front. Again, it is not an offensive term. It is the best term to describe it after seeing both with any sort of extent. Most of the time it's at best an organized rush to a point, or a few medics getting an uber. At worst, 4 spys 3 snipers 3 pyros a scout and a heavy. That's okay though! That's what pubs are. They're fun, chaotic, unorganized, messy, goofy, fun. You're not going to ruin any sort of "fine balance" by altering the game for so that it is more balanced among comp play- we all play the same game.

[quote]We think Natascha's a little [B]too [/B]powerful right now[/quote] What.

Natasha has been fine for about 2 years and now they decide to nerf it

I never really found Natasha overpowered, just not fun to fight against. There's a big difference. Hopefully Valve will tweak it so that it's still a great alternative but not bullshit to deal with. The Wrangler, however, needs tweaking, especially considering it can just hold up a defense on a 6v6 match completely.

[QUOTE=cringe;24201509]"chaos" is a term being used to describe public play in comparison to competitive play. Compared to competitive play, I would call pub play "chaotic." People are all trying to do their own things, not working entirely together calling literally everything they see at all times (at the same time!) processing all that information while working on fighting their own front. Again, it is not an offensive term. It is the best term to describe it after seeing both with any sort of extent. Most of the time it's at best an organized rush to a point, or a few medics getting an uber. At worst, 4 spys 3 snipers 3 pyros a scout and a heavy. That's okay though! That's what pubs are. They're fun, chaotic, unorganized, messy, goofy, fun. You're not going to ruin any sort of "fine balance" by altering the game for so that it is more balanced among comp play- we all play the same game.[/QUOTE] Well if you're going to go and call regular play "chaotic", I don't see you giving any description to competetive, so I'll do the honours and go and call it "sterile".

You guys are going on shitty servers because I don't play chaotic tf2.

[QUOTE=vander97;24202868]Natasha has been fine for about 2 years and now they decide to nerf it[/QUOTE] It got buffed very recently. Or have you not noticed that you've actually started dying to it?

Wouldn't it be awesome if you could switch a server between "competitive mode", where the weapons are the strengths the competitive players require, and "normal mode", where the weapons are what Valve has them at? :buddy:

[QUOTE=tepholman;24205525]Wouldn't it be awesome if you could switch a server between "competitive mode", where the weapons are the strengths the competitive players require, and "normal mode", where the weapons are what Valve has them at? :buddy:[/QUOTE] But.. that requires effort from Valve.

[QUOTE=Blackbird88;24205598]But.. that requires effort from Valve.[/QUOTE] And would be a bad idea because it would make it even harder for people to get into competitive play. The great thing about the 6v6 format is the only thing really different is knowing when to use what classes + unlocks, how to rollout to mid, and how to communicate, the game is no different than the actual base game, if you know the maps and you know the classes, you don't have much to learn to get started at a very low level in the 6v6 format.

[QUOTE=NuckChorris;24170650]I don't mind Natascha being nerfed really, infact I would be OVERJOYED, I wouldn't have to be slowed down to snail speed 24/7 when Scouting, but then again I could just stun him with my Sandman since I never have it unequipped, but then again, what if I don't have my ball or something?[/QUOTE] What Natascha should do is have a progressive slowdown and further reduced damage. Perhaps make it so that a certain amount of the bullets have to hit for slowdown to occur and have the slowdown also based on class speed. That way, a scout can still take down a Natascha heavy with some skillful dodging, and if he's caught, it doesn't mean instant death.

[QUOTE=Nibwoddle;24204604]Well if you're going to go and call regular play "chaotic", I don't see you giving any description to competetive, so I'll do the honours and go and call it "sterile".[/QUOTE] A better term would be "organized." Competitive play requires much more intensive communication basically updating everyone with what you see at all times. [QUOTE]You guys are going on shitty servers because I don't play chaotic tf2. [/QUOTE] In comparison to competitive play, yes, you do. There isn't anything wrong with it either, it is what it is. There is NO way a group of random people are going to operate with any sort of serious cohesion because they are not accustomed to each others play styles, strategies, and abilities. There is a degree of organization on some public servers, but it's never been near the same. Again, all competitive players play in pubs (many with frequency!) and any one of them can tell you the level of team-play and communication simply isn't there.

inb4natasha -75% damage.

Can we give this comps vs pubs shit a rest?

[QUOTE=Chekko;24152945]I hope Valve makes a TF2: Competitive version Where everything is nerfed, every weapon makes 1 damage per minute and no unlockables.[/QUOTE] you just made no sense

[QUOTE=Insane516;24215168]you just made no sense[/QUOTE] Welcome to Team Fortress 2, My name is Gabe Newel and my favorite class is The Spy. Be sure to send your feedback to [email]gaben@valvesoftware.com[/email]

[QUOTE=cringe;24208029]In comparison to competitive play, yes, you do. There isn't anything wrong with it either, it is what it is. There is NO way a group of random people are going to operate with any sort of serious cohesion because they are not accustomed to each others play styles, strategies, and abilities. There is a degree of organization on some public servers, but it's never been near the same. Again, all competitive players play in pubs (many with frequency!) and any one of them can tell you the level of team-play and communication simply isn't there.[/QUOTE] Just because there's something with more organization doesn't mean anything below it is chaotic. People come up with tactics, prepare uber pushes and make desperate jumps to add some time in overtime on PL maps. In fact due to the nature of TF2 I'd say a public server is more organized because you're improvising a lot on public servers. In a competitive environment an engineer with a wrangler fuck your plans real bad which is why it got banned.

[QUOTE=Batmoutarde;24217168]Just because there's something with more organization doesn't mean anything below it is chaotic. People come up with tactics, prepare uber pushes and make desperate jumps to add some time in overtime on PL maps. In fact due to the nature of TF2 I'd say a public server is more organized because you're improvising a lot on public servers. In a competitive environment an engineer with a wrangler fuck your plans real bad which is why it got banned.[/QUOTE] Wrangler got banned because it slows the game down dramatically (7 stickies if the engie is too dumb to stop prefiring and repair it at any point) and hasn't been thoroughly play tested enough in a comp environment. The closest thing to a counter the wrangler has is the sniper (good luck with that headshot while being spammed by 2 sollys a demo and a wrangler) or spy (good luck if the team has any awareness whatsoever.) You can probably get a sap off 90% of the time (and sapping in comp play guarantees that sentry is down) but trading a player for a sentry really isn't ideal. comp play is entirely about taking opportunities when they present themselves. It is entirely about announcing everything at all times to your team about, well, everything. See an enemy? Call it by class, location, and what they are doing. Being attacked? Call how many you see on your flank (whatever side you're watching) so that they know how many to expect on their side. Winning the fight? Let them know. Losing the fight? Let them know. If you've announced the fight after it's over, you're already too late. Don't see an enemy? Call that whatever area you're in is clear. Heard a spy? Announce it to your team. There a sentry? Describe exactly where it is so that everyone knows where it is before they even see it. You literally have to let everyone know what is going on at all times, and support your team based on their comms as well. Now imagine an entire team of people doing this against another team doing the same thing. Saying something is more organized because you're... planning less, doesn't make sense. This does not happen in public play to near the extent it does in competitive play. Again, I'm not sure where this whole "comp players cant handle something because they're all terrible!!" attitude comes from. Comp players are the top skillset in any game, and I don't just mean video games. Golf, basketball, tennis, football, baseball, bowling, hockey, cheerleading... it really doesn't matter. The best at anything play in a competitive setting, because they're all trying to improve and get better than the other.

Thing is, when you're playing professional hockey you don't really remove half players on both teams.

the reason they listen to spuf is because that's where valve games were meant to be talked about, thay may not even know about facepunch.

[QUOTE=Batmoutarde;24226702]Thing is, when you're playing professional hockey you don't really remove half players on both teams.[/QUOTE] Professional versions of any sport are wildly different from the non-pro versions. Sure there are people who play by the rules, but there are ton of house rules, less people (and more people sometimes), and so on and so forth. Maybe hockey not so much because it requires an ice rink (although there are people who just use those really bad pucks and play outside, another example of house rules), but stuff like Baseball, Basketball, Soccer, Football, etc all see stuff like that all the time. But people tend to ignore this because unless you're in South Korea, the gaming industry is still treated (even by it's own ilk, sadly) as a joke and just a past time, whereas sports, the movie industry, the music industry, etc, they've all bene established for a far longer time and are way more stable than the gaming industry is, so even though basketball is just supposed to be "for fun", people don't care when the NBA players take it "super serious".