Breaking the '4th' wall [Unlocks] - Games

Note: Yes, I posted this on the Steam Forums as well. I likes Facepunch, but I doubt Valve comes here for ideas and feedback for their games. =( 'Ello. I see a slight trend in items that remove offensive powers for abilities: Razorback, Gunboats (Already a '4th' unlock), Fire Retardant Suit, the GRU (Both unannounced, but clearly the ideas been juggled.) Bonk! and Sandvich are kind of in the same boat... But these abilities aren't active all the time... So it's gray area... But for the purposes of this thread, I'll be sticking with what the unlocks I listed above have done. Without further ado, I will post the unlock ideas I have so you all can rip 'em apart. ;D [b]Scout[/b] [i]Cleetus[/i] Fancy space-age shoes for traction, speed, and comfort! I thought of an idea that one unlock could go into various slots for different effects, changing how the class functions a bit bt still keeping with the general theme. [i]Melee replaced[/i] Giving up the bat, you gain the ability to use your double-jump as a dodge. simply jump and double-tap a direction on WADS and you'll fly in that direction at decent speed to quickly confuse your enemies. (If it sounds familiar, that's because it is. It borrows a page from Unreal Tournament I'll admit.) In addition, standing on someone's head now does damage. The faster you move, the more damage over time it'll do. For extra fun, taunting with the pistol while standing on someone's head does a TON of damage and is a special taunt kill. Maybe even landing on someone from a great height can cause instant-death as well... I don't think such a thing would really be great with criticals... Not random ones anyway. Perhaps something like the KGB, but only effects 'headstomps'. To add to even more ripping off, get... 3-5 in a row and gain a temporary or permanent health boost. (No green mushrooms please.) [i]Secondary replaced[/i] You'll lose your pistol or the highly underestimated Bonk! and you gain another 'double-jump' essentially giving you an official triple jump. Couple this with a FaN and you've got a quad jump, giving scouts access to areas previously only Demomen and Soldiers tread with ease. Besides vertical height, you can use that triple jump just like a standard double jump for some dodging. [i]Primary replaced[/i] Because you'll be losing a SIGNIFICANT offensive tool, you'll gain an increased base speed. 'No hitter' anyone? This means, of course, you'll only have your bat or pistol to attack with. Makes you the perfect flag runner, and the absolute first to those coveted middle point rushes. [i]EVERYTHING replaced[/i] Why not? Mix and match if you have extra Cleetus'es (Cleeti?)! Imagine having all 3 slots occupied by Cleetus. You won't be able to attack (And will possibly be in humiliation animation for comedic effect.) but you'll be the dodgiest, fastest and most maneuverable thing on the server! I'm not sure exactly what use it could have beyond being the greatest flag runner to ever live... But it'd be interesting. (Maybe throw in 1 attack, used by the taunting... A Baseball slide?) Naturally, you could have just 2 slots occupied. You may only have a pistol, but you can dodge and run like the wind! Just a bat? Fast and can jump really high and it's all you'll need! Just a shotgun? Double dodging delight for those close encounters and getting to high places. High jumps makes for high Headstomp damage after all. =) [b]Sniper[/b] [i]Bear Essential[/i] For a little added security, lay one of these things down to watch your back! [i]Kukri Replaced[/i] Because the Sniper already has a '4th' typed unlock... Maybe give him a not... 4th... type... When the 4's come marching in. Yes, likely people have already suggested this because it's in the GCF's. But heck, I'll throw my hat into the mix dag nabbit. Works just like you'd expect, it's a bear trap. Place one down and wait for some schmoe to step on it. Should be mildly transparent, a good balance between still spotable but still easy to stumble into if you aren't careful. A few things though. One, when you're hit by it, it'll lower your base speed to a bit lower than a Heavy for a set duration, this way it'll drastically effect fast classes, but won't overtly cripple an already slow cow like a Heavy or Soldier. Yes it does damage. But speculation numbers are always WRONG! So let the balancers juggle that. It also can be disarmed in two ways. Firstly, you can shoot the pressure plate, but only a direct hit with something will actually trigger it. So no splash damage disarmings. (It'll also make a loud noise when snapping shut so careful.) Spies can also use their sapper to disarm it, but not actually placing a sapper... Using it should bring up a bar and it'll disappear after a set time. Having spies able to sap the traps makes it so they can't be placed to easily block all spy attempts, even if the spy is careful. Sure, you can jump over them as well, but you just know there are places where the ceiling is too low to jump. Anywho, 'nuff said, someone steps on it, they'll be pretty easy pickings for a headshot or just gunned down by an SMG. If you're REALLY paranoid, use it with the Razorback and everyone will call you paranoid. Also, takes a short time to set down, so you can't just toss it and run... It needs to be placed. [b]Medic[/b] [i]PAK-60[/i] Heal your team to victory! Enhances your backpack for greater effect. [i]Replaces Syringe gun/Saw[/i] I honestly can't decide which. Again, this may sound familiar. Enhances overheal, but also speeds up it's decay when you're not healing your target. Keeping with the giving something up for an ability in return. Valve has already experimented with this, this way it's not a new Medigun, and can be used with the Kritz or the regular. [b]Pyro[/b] [i]Rocket Fuel[/i] Turn your Flamethrower into the gates of HELL! [i]Replaces Secondary[/i] Changes your flamethrower flame into a more 'rocket engine' typed flame. I've a couple ideas in regards to damage of this thing. More direct damage but very short afterburn, shorter range and higher damage, maybe JUST shorter range... Honestly I'm not sure. The main draw is that it can boost you up to places. Just point it down, jump, hold M1 (Like you haven't this entire time already, el oh el.) and it'll raise you up. It's not very fast though, exact numbers barring, it should take a sizable chunk of ammo to get up to places out of reach. Maybe even going as far as to causing extra ammo consumption when pointing down. The idea being that at the cost of some of your ammo, you can get to places to ambush your enemies from that normally they wouldn't expect. Having it as a '4th' means it can be used with the backburner and the flamethrower,though it might be more geared towards the backburner... Which is okay in my book. Worse comes to worse, 'launching' can temporarily lower your max ammo count so you can't just grab that large ammo box on the ledge you just boosted up to. That's about it. Though not officially launched, the Spy has the Fire suit, the Heavy has the GRU, and the Engineer might have a '4th' when the time comes. Demoman I just couldn't think of anything... Sorry. So that's it, those are my ideas. If you folks have any ideas for '4th' type unlocks. Toss 'em in here, heck, even click-to-use items are fair game, 'cause admittedly these are a little hard to come up with. That's it, commence public ridicule in the posts below... Or on the off chance anyone has any positive comments, those would be nice too. =)

Cool. [editline]07:20AM[/editline] Not sure why the Scout would need to be faster though.

I cannot disrespect a 05'er, but er. Those unlockables are rather overpowered/useless in contrast with the existing unlock. For example, the bear essential would bound to have exploits. Like the current razorback problem in which spies can just headshot you. Although from what i understand, this bear trap could be useful for killing/slowing down other classes as well, thus making razorback useless. (It is in the GCF files?) [quote]EVERYTHING replaced Why not? Mix and match if you have extra Cleetus'es (Cleeti?)! Imagine having all 3 slots occupied by Cleetus. You won't be able to attack (And will possibly be in humiliation animation for comedic effect.) but you'll be the dodgiest, fastest and most maneuverable thing on the server! I'm not sure exactly what use it could have beyond being the greatest flag runner to ever live... But it'd be interesting. (Maybe throw in 1 attack, used by the taunting... A Baseball slide?) Naturally, you could have just 2 slots occupied. You may only have a pistol, but you can dodge and run like the wind! Just a bat? Fast and can jump really high and it's all you'll need! Just a shotgun? Double dodging delight for those close encounters and getting to high places. High jumps makes for high Headstomp damage after all. =)[/quote] Now that's just stupid. Edit: Also, if... IF, that actually end up in TF2. Think of the agony in 2fort. A scout with massively increased speed, dodging every single projectiles, stealing intel. It's a god forsaken TINY map for christ's sake.

[QUOTE=mescool15;20076226]Cool. [editline]07:20AM[/editline] Not sure why the Scout would need to be faster though.[/QUOTE] Because a charging demo is faster than him, as well as having the Eyelander Demo (4 heads) and Equalizer Soldier (<50) encroaching on his space as the fastest of classes?

[QUOTE=biodude94566;20076268]Because a charging demo is faster than him, as well as having the Eyelander Demo (4 heads) and Equalizer Soldier (<50) encroaching on his space as the fastest of classes?[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/File:Equalizerdamagespeed.PNG[/IMG][img]http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/File:Equalizerdamagespeed.PNG[/img] Soldier doesn't get faster than him. [editline]07:26AM[/editline] FUUUU img tags are dead. [url]http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/File:Equalizerdamagespeed.PNG[/url]

I said encroaching on his space. Neither the 4-heads Eyelander Demo (not charging), nor Equalizer soldier below 50 health are faster than him, but they're getting pretty close. Also you're trying to image link to a page, not an image. [img_thumb]http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/thumb/f/f9/Equalizerdamagespeed.PNG/800px-Equalizerdamagespeed.PNG[/img_thumb]

[QUOTE=powerchu;20076257]I cannot disrespect a 05'er, but er. Those unlockables are rather overpowered/useless in contrast with the existing unlock.[/QUOTE] 6o.o;; Huh... I can't see how any would be useless.. And even less so Overpowered. Movement is very important for a scout, and the Cleetus would give them options in regards to how they want their movement enhanced, the trade-off being offensive power for various things. You can never truly appreciate melee until you don't have it, and losing your secondary isn't too great of a deal, but that's also why the reward isn't too jarring. Losing your primary has obvious ramifications, but also noted benefits in the melee department. In regards to edit: Gives a whole new reason to have a heavy with a Natascha. A Scout with no shotgun can't exactly outgun that. Sniper unlock has uses, but again you lose your Kukri. In the same way that a careful spy can circumvent a Razorback, so too can they circumvent the Trap, but like both you have to keep an eye out for it. In the terms of a razorback it's a bit easier because it's your target. Whereas you'll have to be careful near corners with the Bear essentials. In either case, a Spy caught in a trap not only has his cover blown (*Snap!* *Scream of pain!*) but also his escape for a few moments. Still, a spy can potentially fight off the potential sniper assailant with a well placed Ambassador shot or even outshooting with the revolver. Because the sniper no longer has a Kukri, fast death beyond a Huntsman headshot is unavailable. The Pak-60 is already something Valve has experimented with. Making the medic a more one-to-one medic rather than a team medic. Rocket fuel enhances the ambush aspect of the Pyro, at the cost of at the least Max ammo after using it. The trade-off being your secondary, which gives the Pyro much needed range, but seeing as this focuses more on ambush, range shouldn't be part of your strategy when you're infiltrating a way that only Scouts, Demomen and Soldiers (... Maybe an enterprising Engineer.) could've gone.

[QUOTE=ZCaliber;20076178] [i]Cleetus[/i] [/quote] Good idea without taunt kill or being able to have more than one slot as Cleetus. [QUOTE=ZCaliber;20076178] [b]Sniper[/b] [i]Bear Essential[/i] [/quote] I don't think it should replace the melee, rather the second slot. Maybe it would get stuck to the victim's leg and so would cause cloaking spies to be half visible, and teammates could shoot or hit it off. [QUOTE=ZCaliber;20076178] [b]Medic[/b] [i]PAK-60[/i] [/quote] Sounds like a faint change (and pretty useless too), and I think it's a standard that a class has a melee attack. [QUOTE=ZCaliber;20076178] [b]Pyro[/b] [i]Rocket Fuel[/i] [/quote] The secondary weapon is too important for the pyro, I'd rather have that as a primary replacement.

[QUOTE=ZCaliber;20076364]6o.o;; Huh... I can't see how any would be useless.. And even less so Overpowered. Movement is very important for a scout, and the Cleetus would give them options in regards to how they want their movement enhanced, the trade-off being offensive power for various things. You can never truly appreciate melee until you don't have it, and losing your secondary isn't too great of a deal, but that's also why the reward isn't too jarring. Losing your primary has obvious ramifications, but also noted benefits in the melee department. In regards to edit: Gives a whole new reason to have a heavy with a Natascha. A Scout with no shotgun can't exactly outgun that. Sniper unlock has uses, but again you lose your Kukri. In the same way that a careful spy can circumvent a Razorback, so too can they circumvent the Trap, but like both you have to keep an eye out for it. In the terms of a razorback it's a bit easier because it's your target. Whereas you'll have to be careful near corners with the Bear essentials. In either case, a Spy caught in a trap not only has his cover blown (*Snap!* *Scream of pain!*) but also his escape for a few moments. Still, a spy can potentially fight off the potential sniper assailant with a well placed Ambassador shot or even outshooting with the revolver. Because the sniper no longer has a Kukri, fast death beyond a Huntsman headshot is unavailable. The Pak-60 is already something Valve has experimented with. Making the medic a more one-to-one medic rather than a team medic. Rocket fuel enhances the ambush aspect of the Pyro, at the cost of at the least Max ammo after using it. The trade-off being your secondary, which gives the Pyro much needed range, but seeing as this focuses more on ambush, range shouldn't be part of your strategy when you're infiltrating a way that only Scouts, Demomen and Soldiers (... Maybe an enterprising Engineer.) could've gone.[/QUOTE] Ah... but you are thinking too narrowly my friend. Instead of thinking like the class, how about thinking of other classes that may oppose the suggested class? [editline]04:08PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Talishmar;20076736] The secondary weapon is too important for the pyro, I'd rather have that as a primary replacement.[/QUOTE] But the rocket fuel is for the flamethrower. That is why i said the ideas are somehow useless.

Cleets are a little useless because not only does the Scout move at a pretty decent speed as-is, replacing your melee is a no (Chances are in a real game you won't use melee very much), replacing secondary gives you something not entirely useful (Vertical space in Team Fortress is almost as rare as water), and primary is...Come on, now. Quit being silly. The bear trap is kind of useless because people could easily jump over it and kick your ass, and again replacing melee goes against Valve's ideals (That you have a fighting chance in every situation, even when out of ammo), and replacing secondary renders it useless when you could be filling people with millions of bullets or throwing piss at them. They'll earn it and put it next to their razorback. The PAK takes away one of your weapons AND increases overheal decay, just to heal a bit faster? That's an unfair tradeoff if I ever heard one. The Pyro has enough movement capability already, moving faster then 1/3 of the classes and capable of keeping up with another third or so. And on the other hand, taking away a trusty backup in case an enemy gets away just so you can jump a little higher is no fun at all. Plus, pointing down with an Xbox controller (And trust me, the weapons WILL find there way to that place eventually) is extremely not-fun, they have a hard enough time rocket jumping.

Oh, by the way guys. Scout will beat the fucking daylights of Pyro without his secondary weapon. Its hard enough that there are snipers, and now there's scout to be afraid of.

Certainly having a Rocket Fuel Flamethrower would be a pretty interesting unlock as a Primary. Though for the purposes of the post, I chose to stick with the 'Lose item, gain ability' mindset. As for the balance in regards to other classes with the unlocks... I'm still missing something here. Maybe I'm jus' not thinking clearly because it's like... 2 am where I'm at. But the Cleetus doesn't drastically change how the other classes engage the Scout, if the Primary replace was used, hit and runs would be possible, but only with the pistol and Bat. Adding a 2nd double jump would only be in regards to where the scout could get, even a quad jump doesn't change things too much. The dodge + Headstomp plays upon the risk/reward in regards to proximity, dodging is simply a changed double-jump in theory. The bear is... I suppose akin to a Sniper's 'sentry gun' if that simile works. In addition to watching your back, it can be used supportively in key choke points, but as the same way it is with sticky bombs, they can be disarmed by most classes should they spot it before it catches them. Pak-60 certainly has it's uses. Maybe it does need a certain je ne sais quoi to make it more desirable, perhaps something for the medic as well? Though as it stands currently, it makes the patient that much harder to kill, meaning the medic needs to be even more careful to keep himself out of harms way using his new mobile shield. Push comes to shove, and his patient dies, he has one less weapon to deal with his assailant. I've already addressed the Rocket Fuel so I'll leave that outta this. Edit: No no no, enhances overheal. Meaning that if a heavy has like.. 400 HP overhealed, with the Pak he'd have more than 400 as long as you're healing him.

Triple jump will break every scout jump map ever made. I like it. :biggrin:

It would be more useful to have a medigun that can overheal many teammates instead of keeping one alive.

I like the sound of some of these. Could be interesting.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;20077929]It would be more useful to have a medigun that can overheal many teammates instead of keeping one alive.[/QUOTE] No Uber, for balance.

Your remark about traction on the shoes gave me an idea, how about shoes that makes you faster but make you slide around quite a lot?

I really like the idea of an unlock that can be placed into multiple slots for a greater effect.

[QUOTE=Lambda 77 :D;20079091]Your remark about traction on the shoes gave me an idea, how about shoes that makes you faster but make you slide around quite a lot?[/QUOTE] Oh god, that would be fucking hilarious.

I've a few ideas for Scout, that involve what I call "jump mods", which modify the Scout's jumping capabilities in exchange for forfeiting the double-jump. Jump mod 1: Dash-jump. Basically, it exchanges the regular double-jump for a move that propells Scout forward through the air at twice his max speed for half a second, before he falls back to the ground. The Dash-jump doesn't permit you to ascend or descend during the jump's duration, you only move forward and turn during the duration, after which he's back on the ground. To sum up: you sacrifice mid-air maneuvers and increased height for a mid-air speed boost. Jump mod 2: Power-jump. Ever looked up at the Soldiers and Demos flying through the skies with their feet of fire, wishing you could do the same? Well, Mann Co. has the right shoes for the job! These nifty boots might not be able to allow you to jump in mid-air, but they can allow you to jump higher than ever! Just hold down the jump button, and when you release, you'll be flying high like the birds! But keep in mind that the stronger the jump, the bigger the toll on yourself... To sum up: you hold down the Jump button to charge up your jump, and depending on when you release it, you'll be propelled into the air with a certain level of power, with higher jump levels having a minor health penalty. Single tap = regular jump, no damage to self. Hold down for a second = jump high enough to jump through the ceiling hole in 2fort lobby, 10 damage to self. Hold down for 2 seconds = leap high as a rocket jumper, 25 damage to self. Note: you can still run and shoot whilst charging jump.

I think with the pyro's rocket fuel thrower, it should attach an actual jetpack to his back that the flamethrower can be attached to with the rubber hose thing. It should reduce your max ammo to 150. The jetpacking should work like this: first press of jump button - normal jump, second press of jump button - jetpacks ignite, hold down second press - start flying up with the same momentum as your original jump was going. Jetpack jumping/flying takes 1.5 X the ammo that holding down M1 does so that you have a pretty limited jump distance/height. And for the cleats, I think they should only replace the secondary, and make the jump distance 65% further with 25% damage reduction when shot on first jump, and 50% damage reduction when on second jump. When jumping (normal and double) you use the bonk punch particle trail. The bear trap should have a 10 second attach time in which it should do 6 DPS (6X10=60, melee=65, 60+65=125=kill against spies), make the victim scream repeatedly so that it's obvious they're there, uncloak and undisguise spies and stop them from redisguising, and make them go heavy speed. Also, a 10 second respawn (that only starts after the bear trap's 10 second attach time) and replaces SMG.

The only "4th wall" unlock that I can thing of at this present time is for the medic. Charge of the uber brigade Fed up of you and you're uber buddy being the only 2 to make an offensive movement on that final point? don't really have to defend yourself at range? Well we got just the tool for you. When you unleash you're uber, all nearby team mates will be fully buffed to their maximum health allowance and all ailments such as fire and coats of piss are instantly cured, unfortunately the effect is instantaneous and makes your buddies susceptible to coats of piss and burning to death once more not only that the buff drains like it would when you no longer heal someone, so act quickly and end the round before more lives are lost needlessly. The point of this is to urge people to charge in rather than sit back and wait for stalemate which plagues our TF2, it acts in the same manner as the buff banner. It will also affect a disguised enemy spy too.

Replaces bottle Demoman's Trusty Bottle This trusty bottle is filled with a liquid you would not want to drink; gasoline. The demoman wrapped it in sheep skin and started using it in battles. On hit it makes a enemy less resistant to explosives and flame. The liquid stays on for 5 seconds, allowing a demoman to deal massive damage to finish them off. If they get hit with atleast 2 things from explosive damage, they have a 1/2 chance to get lit on fire. The sheep skin gives the bottle a soft touch; which makes the demoman unable to deal bottle damage(or it does low damage: 20) Taunt: The demoman drinks out of the bottle, gets out a match, then blows fire out, at a angled position Picture of the demoman in real life showing this taunt: [IMG]http://www.acedancer.com/Fire-dancers/fire-blowers.jpg[/IMG]

I was going to make my own thread for this, but since this one's here, here's some spy unlocks. -Camera Replaces the revolver. For spies who want to be useful to the team. Pros: -The health of all enemies within a certain radius of you is displayed to teammates. -Primary fire takes a picture of every enemy in your field of view, marking them as targets. Enemies marked as targets can be seen through walls (Marked enemies that you see through walls are a solid color) -Does not undisguise you when used. Cons: -No way to defend yourself. Notes: -Primary fire has infinite ammo, but has a 15 second cooldown. -Makes the Spy more teamwork-oriented instead of a "lone wolf" type of class. -Has an "eject brass" like shotguns or the scattergun. The "brass" is a picture. (A screenshot of your firstperson view, without a hud or viewmodel, that is printed out of the camera.) -The muzzleflash is a usual camera flash, but can not be seen by your enemies when you are disguised. -Looks like the camera beard camera. Taunt: -The spy turns the camera around and takes three pictures of himself looking menacing, silly, and shocked. The pictures are printed out of the camera in the same way as if you had actually used the camera. -The Shroud Replaces the cloak. For spies who don't get caught and don't like getting caught. Pros: -Bumping into or getting shot by enemies while cloaked does not reveal you. -You take no damage when cloaked. -Cloak is silent (except to the user) Cons: -Cloaking takes 60% more time. -Uncloak takes 20% more time. -Recharge is 35% slower. -Uncloaking takes 15% of cloak away. Notes: -Cloaking makes a faint sound (like a breeze) that can only be heard by the user. -Black cloth wrist strap with a silver body... thing. The screen is black with a team-colored LED display. It displays cloak time left with numbers. (12:34 is 12.34 seconds) [img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/teamfortress/images/1/1f/Tranq.png[/img] -The Tranq Gun Replaces the revolver. Helps spies escape from single enemies in exchange for firepower Pros: -Slows enemies' movement speeds (20%) for 5 seconds and fire speeds (35%) for 8 seconds -Perfect accuracy. (Revolver's is near-perfect) -Spies can not be seen by the enemy they shot if they are a certain distance away. Cons: One shot per clip. Much slower reload than original revolver Notes: -Shoots a tranquilizer dart that is a little bit faster than a Direct Hit rocket. -Can not affect the same person with the tranq gun for another 12 seconds -Effects do not stack Taunt: -Revolver taunt

^^tranquilizer^^ Taunt idea: He looks in his gun admirably, then he looks around to make sure no one is looking.

Replacing the bat for the Cleetus sounds like it wouldn't change much for a double jump. [editline]10:48AM[/editline] Also using a script, I can pretty much cover 4 jumps with the FaN.

It would be funny if the pyro had a rocket for a primary weapon. He would hold the rocket under his arm with the nozzle pointing to the enemy. M1 would be similar to the normal flamethrower attack. M2 would shoot off a little blast of fire (very short range) that did extra damage and knocked back the pyro. Taunt would be the pyro smashing it into the ground and blowing up.

Stomping on people's heads is a great idea, and it fits with the wackyness of tf2.

[QUOTE=powerchu;20076799]Oh, by the way guys. Scout will beat the fucking daylights of Pyro without his secondary weapon. Its hard enough that there are snipers, and now there's scout to be afraid of.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HxlrXPSnjA&feature=player_embedded[/media] [b]Be Afraid.[/b]

[QUOTE=ZCaliber;20076178]Giving up the bat, you gain the ability to use your double-jump as a dodge. simply jump and double-tap a direction on WADS and you'll fly in that direction at decent speed to quickly confuse your enemies. (If it sounds familiar, that's because it is. It borrows a page from Unreal Tournament I'll admit.)[/QUOTE] You can already do that. Just press the key (WASD) keys and your second jump will go in that direction. So that is already like a dodge. Plus, a melee replacement to only two weapons is a bad idea.