Is there any downside to the Enforcer when using the Dead Ringer? - Games

These are fair points, thank you for explaining them to me.

[QUOTE=Chilean;31318591]Sneaking in without a cloak makes you a pretty damn good spy.[/QUOTE] Just common sense and a little luck.

[QUOTE=Errorproxy;31321201]Just common sense and a little luck.[/QUOTE] A little?

[QUOTE=Paradoxmoa;31256675]The downside is that you're using a pathetic crutch for bad Spies (The DR, that is). And then people rate this dumb and disagree because they are, or play with bad Spies, who are just plain stupid.[/QUOTE] I mostly use the Dead Ringer combined with the Saharan Spy pack. If you think the spies who use the dead ringer are bad, you must be playing with the wrong people. You obviously haven't seen Cloak and Dagger spies play yet.

[QUOTE=redBadger;31326724]I mostly use the Dead Ringer combined with the Saharan Spy pack. If you think the spies who use the dead ringer are bad, you must be playing with the wrong people. You obviously haven't seen Cloak and Dagger spies play yet.[/QUOTE] Saharan spy is so poorly thought out. I abused the fuck out of it in the beta and literally cloaked behind heavies with a dead ringer and didn't notice a thing. Now I just use Enforcer and DR because god damn, might as well have fun in using this overpowered gun. And no one turns around when I turn the DR off :v:

[QUOTE=redBadger;31326724]I mostly use the Dead Ringer combined with the Saharan Spy pack. If you think the spies who use the dead ringer are bad, you must be playing with the wrong people. You obviously haven't seen Cloak and Dagger spies play yet.[/QUOTE] "WHY CAN'T I FUCKING FIND YOU!?" "Don't worry, maybe you will some day."

[QUOTE=Vaught;31326660]A little?[/QUOTE] Yes, it's usually predicting the most open spot that you can sneak behind them. Well, depending which maps.. but yeah. Then a little luck towards no one guarding that path. [editline]25th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=redBadger;31326724]I mostly use the Dead Ringer combined with the Saharan Spy pack. If you think the spies who use the dead ringer are bad, you must be playing with the wrong people. You obviously haven't seen Cloak and Dagger spies play yet.[/QUOTE] Man, I used to be a really good Cloak and Dagger spy.. but with the dead ringer.. I can't see myself using it again. Cloak and Dagger is good for stalking engineers, that's all I can think of.

Nah. Just do what skilled spies do: Facestab.

i'd like the enforcer i use stock items for spy though, but the enforcer would be awesome

[QUOTE=Errorproxy;31316837]Lol.. what.. video?[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8_J3IfTAy8[/media]

I really wished the demoman and scout got man treads. Charge+man treads would be a ultimate combo. The atomizer+man treads would be p fun too.

Really is no downside, the DR is bad if you wanna play spy like a spy but if you just wanna do straight combat it's the guaranteed way not to die and still do some real damage. The problem I observe with the Enforcer is that unlike the other revolvers it can very consistently 2 shot any 125 HP class, which is most players on a team in any server, considering the accuracy loss doesn't become too much of a problem until your third shot, this presents an obvious problem where you may as well just shoot most people to death rather than risking a backstab because it's just that easy. I reckon that after the first shot, instead of your accuracy going to shit, the amount of damage you do should drop significantly, but you retain perfect accuracy. So your first shot does 72 damage, your second only does 48 (the amount of time it takes to get your accuracy back to perfect for the other revolvers is now used for the amount of time it takes to get your weapon back to doing full damage). What does this do? It prevents you from ganking an enemy from any direction with two shots, while giving the gun an advantage to make it a viable choice over the other revolvers.

[QUOTE=Riutet;31331952]Really is no downside, the DR is bad if you wanna play spy like a spy but if you just wanna do straight combat it's the guaranteed way not to die and still do some real damage. The problem I observe with the Enforcer is that unlike the other revolvers it can very consistently 2 shot any 125 HP class, which is most players on a team in any server, considering the accuracy loss doesn't become too much of a problem until your third shot, this presents an obvious problem where you may as well just shoot most people to death rather than risking a backstab because it's just that easy. I reckon that after the first shot, instead of your accuracy going to shit, the amount of damage you do should drop significantly, but you retain perfect accuracy. So your first shot does 72 damage, your second only does 48 (the amount of time it takes to get your accuracy back to perfect for the other revolvers is now used for the amount of time it takes to get your weapon back to doing full damage). What does this do? It prevents you from ganking an enemy from any direction with two shots, while giving the gun an advantage to make it a viable choice over the other revolvers.[/QUOTE] Light classes are two shotted by a lot of things (You should know, the DH you use so much One shots.). And this really only applies to good spies with good aim. A good down side would to be increase de-cloak time IF using the DR and to increase cloaking time with other watches, Another downside would be to take health away, speed reduction when drawn, Lower ammo count, slower reload and firing speed, a bevy of things really that would make the enforcer a more defensive revolver that makes the spy deal with threats closer to home than behind enemy lines, to fulfill that 'support' role the spy was given in the first place. Spies behind enemy lines can always use L'etranger with the DR to decrease time to the next cloaking. Let me take this moment to suggest a revolver of my own: The Caddish Charlatan/ The Devious Derringer A two shot, DEAD accurate firing revolver that deals a flat (that's every shot, every single one) 30 (MAYBE 40 or 35) per shot at all ranges. Downsides are -66% less ammo Mixed Down/up -Flat rate. Upside: Is 100% accurate (or 90%, that would be good as well.) This revolver is for the ones trying to get away. Considering the minimum fall off for the revolver is 20 and the enforcer is 25 I'd say that would be very good.

God DAMN that is overpowered. I suggest negating random crits.

[QUOTE=latin_geek;31358917]God DAMN that is overpowered. I suggest negating random crits.[/QUOTE] Well, as a spy you usually don't get random crits. Not enough damage to activate it. [editline]27th July 2011[/editline] Let me take this moment to suggest a revolver of my own: The Caddish Charlatan/ The Devious Derringer A two shot, DEAD accurate firing revolver that deals a flat (that's every shot, every single one) 30 (MAYBE 40 or 35) per shot at all ranges. Downsides are -66% less ammo Mixed Down/up -Flat rate. Upside: Is 100% accurate (or 90%, that would be good as well.) This revolver is for the ones trying to get away. Considering the minimum fall off for the revolver is 20 and the enforcer is 25 I'd say that would be very good.[/QUOTE] Really? Revolvers only do 20?.. distance doesn't matter does it?

[QUOTE=Errorproxy;31361113]Well, as a spy you usually don't get random crits. Not enough damage to activate it.[/QUOTE] A backstab deals 6 times the current hp of the enemy, that can be 6 times 450. That's not e-fucking-nough damage for you? My lord. Not to mention chainstabs.

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;31361734]A backstab deals 6 times the current hp of the enemy, that can be 6 times 450. That's not e-fucking-nough damage for you? My lord. Not to mention chainstabs.[/QUOTE] Well, if you look at it that way.. but I really rarely get crits on my revolver/enforcer. Maybe the damage threshold for crits is higher for spy.. I don't know. Trust me, I have quite a few hours on Spy.

Would be ridiculous, imo. The only thing stopping Spies from being invisible Scouts is that all our damage goes into a single shot with asstons of spread.

[QUOTE=Daakun;31362013]Would be ridiculous, imo. The only thing stopping Spies from being invisible Scouts is that all our damage goes into a single shot with asstons of spread.[/QUOTE] What?.. spies are like the 4th fastest class right?

[QUOTE=Errorproxy;31362200]What?.. spies are like the 4th fastest class right?[/QUOTE] Class speed chart: Scout: 133% Medic: 107% Pyro, Sniper, Engineer, and Spy: 100% Demoman: 93% Soldier: 80% Heavy: 77%

IMO, the downsides between the Big Earner and Enforcer should be switched. The -25 health bonus would make the Enforcer a huge risk/reward item, and might lower the amount of "battle spies" using it as a free damage bonus with the Dead Ringer.

[QUOTE=Quiet Maniac;31362490]IMO, the downsides between the Big Earner and Enforcer should be switched. The -25 health bonus would make the Enforcer a huge risk/reward item, and might lower the amount of "battle spies" using it as a free damage bonus with the Dead Ringer.[/QUOTE] That only flips the coin. Suddenly you'd have people using the Big Earner with the Dead Ringer instead. The negative attribute needs reworking or something that the Dead Ringer cannot negate, otherwise it'll remain a neglected downside.

[QUOTE=Razi The Red;31362489]Class speed chart: Scout: 133% Medic: 107% Pyro, Sniper, Engineer, and Spy: 100% Demoman: 93% Soldier: 80% Heavy: 77%[/QUOTE] I was basically right..

[QUOTE=Errorproxy;31361113] Really? Revolvers only do 20?.. distance doesn't matter does it?[/QUOTE] The least damage (that's at sniping distance and more) you can do with the revolver/enforcer is 20/25 respectively. [editline]27th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=latin_geek;31358917]God DAMN that is overpowered. I suggest negating random crits.[/QUOTE] I was thinking about it, but a crit from the Charlatan/derringer would deal 90/120/105 (30/40/35 respectively) That's not totally unfair since the revolver only has two shots. I would Change the upside: Consecutive two shots are dead accurate, after reload a 1.5 second delay before it becomes dead accurate again.

I've always wanted a 3-4 shot derringer with Revolver damage that increased run speed like two percent. Not enough to catch up to Medics but a small boost.

[QUOTE=Chilean;31318591]Sneaking in without a cloak makes you a pretty damn good spy.[/QUOTE] Most DR spies do not get ten feet from their own spawn before getting their DR set off, so there's not much sneaking going on here without cloak. I usually just see spies jumping onto the faces of their enemies with their DR out, then running about without a care in the world with its cloak. Then they decloak, collect metal, harass, then go "oops I took a tiny bit of damage v:v:v better DR up!" then rinse and repeat, getting away almost every time just because there isn't a Pyro around. Boring. Unskilled. Annoying. The only spies I ever see anymore.

[QUOTE=TheJoey;31369212]Most DR spies do not get ten feet from their own spawn before getting their DR set off, so there's not much sneaking going on here without cloak. I usually just see spies jumping onto the faces of their enemies with their DR out, then running about without a care in the world with its cloak. Then they decloak, collect metal, harass, then go "oops I took a tiny bit of damage v:v:v better DR up!" then rinse and repeat, getting away almost every time just because there isn't a Pyro around. Boring. Unskilled. Annoying. The only spies I ever see anymore.[/QUOTE] That is not how I play.. You have to act like the other team. Walk backwards facing away from your victims. Be in the battle field so if a stray bullet or rocket does happen to hit you, it'll still look like your own team had killed you. Then that's when you start sneaking around stabbing backs and shooting people.

The Spy should not be a viable combat class. He's supposed to be fucked when he gets caught, therefore he needs to be sneaky and stealthy. When I use the Enforcer, I sometimes just forgo trying to stab people and just move up with my team and shoot things because I get so many kills that way. The Enforcer's basically an accurate shotgun for Christ's sake. It does around the same damage as the Family Business without the extra two shots, and its much more accurate at range and has a much less punishing damage falloff. It takes out Scouts in two hits, which should normally be the Spy's worst enemy. Hit a Pyro three times and they're done, and the Pyro should not be outclassed by his hard counter. You do more damage when you're out of his flamethrower range than he does with his shotgun at that distance due to pellet spread, and the Pyro can't do much to get you. Demomen and Soldiers are still dangerous but 3 or 4 shots at medium range is enough to take them out. Normally with the revolver you'd be crazy to take a Soldier head on, but with the Enforcer it's not that bad of an idea. As a Spy you can see enemy health so you can just pick and choose who you want to shoot anyways. You can land 3 shots on a Heavy before he revs up, so thats like 200+ damage right there. With a crit you can kill him before he revs! You can two shot a Sniper, Engineer or Spy, so there's no real reason to use the Ambassador unless you want to act like a Sniper at a distance (in which case you might as well just go sniper). Look, I know you guys who play Spy a lot love this thing, but frankly its overpowered. [b]If the damage falloff range is increased so that you need to be closer than before to do more damage then it'd be a lot more fair.[/b] If you wanted to take out a Pyro in three shots then you'd need to be just outside the flamethrower's range, so it's not a simple 3 shot kill anymore. If you want to kill a shotgun wielding class you'd need to be a bit closer than before so he can now properly nail all of his pellets into you, so it's a more fair fight. Taking on a Soldier is now a dumb idea again, because unless he's using the DH the splash damage is going to be a lot easier to run into. [b]In short, the enforcer would now trade the reliability at midrange of the revolver for more damage up close, and that seems fair to me. It's not useless because you can still kill people in two to three shots as long as you're close, and the revolver or ambassador is still a good alternative due to reliability at range. [/b]

[QUOTE=Hirouzamaki;31330578][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8_J3IfTAy8[/media][/QUOTE] I guess now renaming the Booties "Hover Boots" makes sense, lol

[QUOTE=General J;31318188]Enforcer needs a "No Crits" Debuff, a 144 crit is ridiculous. An Ambassador headshot is only 104 btw[/QUOTE] *102 They need to make the downside a longer decloak sound or something of that nature Making a louder decloak would suck for all watches and make the DR more or less totally inviable against people with at least 50% aural capacity.