Robin Walker on lack of Engineer items - Games

[QUOTE=MrCasual;31394583]I suppose, but he's already a mega gimped class.[/QUOTE] Indeed, but my point was that while Demoman may have more melee unlocks, Pyro's are better

[QUOTE=MrCasual;31394583]I suppose, but he's already a mega gimped class. I just want a new Flamethrower thats got better afterburn mechanics. Maybe replace alt fire with a secondary oil stream that extends afterburn from a longer distance than the flames, and causes flames to mini-crit or harder to remove from liquids in jars and friendly airblasts.[/QUOTE] Relying on afterburn kills is bad practice. A dead enemy cannot retaliate and shoot back, so it's a lot more efficient to kill them on the spot with an Axtinguisher than to puff them with flame and then poof them towards their teammates, hoping none of the 6 other enemy classes puts out the fire. You also then have to hope they're not a Dead Ringer Spy or a Demoman wearing a shield, because they're also passively able to negate some of that afterburn damage. Scout - Mad Milk Pyro - Air Blast Heavy - Sandvich or Steak Engineer - Dispenser Medic - Medigun Sniper - Jarate Condition kills are in no way more 'fun' than grenades are. Valve stripped TF2 of automatic weapons and grenades because they aren't fun to play with. Grenades take hardly any skill to chunk in a congested area to get a free kill or two. Automatic weapons aren't fun for obvious reasons either. In my personal opinion, kills made by applying conditions aren't fun either. I'm not saying this for the sake of saying that Pyro's condition application is overpowered, but I'm referencing that any class besides Pyro getting some form of condition application upon hit is sort of bullshit. Engineer honestly shouldn't have a wrench that applies bleeding, and neither should the Sniper have a kukri that applies bleeding. They may be prime targets for Spy attacks, but honestly Spy is already somewhat gimped as it is. Spy and Pyro are sort of in the same boat. Spy's Enforcer helps to alleviate some of his ineptitude, but base movement speed and base health never helped him much. Not to mention that 2 of his knives cut his health even more.

[QUOTE=The Calzone;31367101]If a Pyro is 50 feet away, you can still tell what team he's on, regardless of the little speck of blue on his chest. The old Uncle Sam texture would have caused an understandable confusion due to being as large as the soldier's torso. Meanwhile, these little medals won't cause any sort of trouble and chances are you probably won't ever see one in regular gameplay anyway. You're just picking nits by being upset by the medals.[/QUOTE] If you're too stupid to be able to differentiate a striped hat from someone's body then yeah sure, however fortunately the large majority of human beings is able to identify an object or a person in a split second so it should make no measurable difference. In pub servers nobody would care, and in pro servers/matches nobody would be stupid enough to wear a tall hat that stands out like that. It's not like it's the hat you should be shooting anyway, so you're whining about nothing. Then again I'm pretty sure you complained about the bluish paint too and everybody stopped caring about it long ago. If anything the original colour pattern would look out of place. But make people confuse teams, no.

[QUOTE=maxumym;31384429]Same for spy. Needs more "I'm a Spy and I have high-tech spy devices". And because of that, no matter how much I love the Legacy pack, I think the best pack was this one:[IMG]http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1488/tf2micoupdate.png[/IMG] [/QUOTE] people still remember! ;_; sometimes I had the feeling that they were just too lazy to add in hte custom animation sparkwire made for it :(

Aye, I hope the new Demo weapons are unique new kinds of explosives that work in cool new ways, like a bomb that can be moved by remote control, and not something as pedestrian as a modified Sticky Launcher/Grenade Launcher, although those would be ok. Not great, but ok nonetheless. Also, alternate bottles with some sort of liquid "tweak" attached to them, catering to Demo's love of alcohol, would be kinda interesting as well. (basically a bottle filled with hooch that enhances one aspect but weakens another for a short duration, possibly triggered with the "reload button" since reload does nothing for most melee weapons) Still, I still hope Engie can actually make some changes to the standard slew of machines he's been stuck with for the last 3 or 4 years. A change would be great.

[QUOTE=MrCasual;31394583]I suppose, but he's already a mega gimped class. I just want a new Flamethrower thats got better afterburn mechanics. Maybe replace alt fire with a secondary oil stream that extends afterburn from a longer distance than the flames, and causes flames to mini-crit or harder to remove from liquids in jars and friendly airblasts.[/QUOTE] How is the pyro a mega gimped class? I've seen people wipe out half a team with a pyro. Like Joey said relying on afterburn to kill an enemy, possibly barring the scout, is a terrible idea. I use the degreaser almost exclusively, so I either airblast them and shotgun to death or rush for the postal pummeler. As to pyro's current melee lineup, what else does he need? [editline]28th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ironman17;31396185]Aye, I hope the new Demo weapons are unique new kinds of explosives that work in cool new ways, like a bomb that can be moved by remote control, and not something as pedestrian as a modified Sticky Launcher/Grenade Launcher, although those would be ok. Not great, but ok nonetheless. Also, alternate bottles with some sort of liquid "tweak" attached to them, catering to Demo's love of alcohol, would be kinda interesting as well. (basically a bottle filled with hooch that enhances one aspect but weakens another for a short duration, possibly triggered with the "reload button" since reload does nothing for most melee weapons) Still, I still hope Engie can actually make some changes to the standard slew of machines he's been stuck with for the last 3 or 4 years. A change would be great.[/QUOTE] New machines would be amazing for sure. As for the Demoman, it'd be awesome if he had a bottle of alcohol so potent it poisoned other classes.

[QUOTE=Frost42;31396313]As for the Demoman, it'd be awesome if he had a bottle of alcohol so potent it poisoned other classes.[/QUOTE] Another Dam*Time better than afterburn? Bollocks to that.

[QUOTE=Tabarnaco;31394845]If you're too stupid to be able to differentiate a striped hat from someone's body then yeah sure, however fortunately the large majority of human beings is able to identify an object or a person in a split second so it should make no measurable difference. In pub servers nobody would care, and in pro servers/matches nobody would be stupid enough to wear a tall hat that stands out like that. It's not like it's the hat you should be shooting anyway, so you're whining about nothing. Then again I'm pretty sure you complained about the bluish paint too and everybody stopped caring about it long ago. If anything the original colour pattern would look out of place. But make people confuse teams, no.[/QUOTE] totally unrelated to the point I was making or anything that anyone was talking about you really baffle me sometimes

[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;31396414]Another Dam*Time better than afterburn? Bollocks to that.[/QUOTE] I'm a bit confused by this. edit: and not the bollocks part.

[QUOTE=Frost42;31396550]I'm a bit confused by this. edit: and not the bollocks part.[/QUOTE] Damage over time. Bleeding is already more powerful than fire, because it's much harder to get rid of. Dam*Time was weird to look at, he should've just used DoT.

Aye, afterburn isn't too good to rely on, despite that being what defines the Pyro; being a class that deals damage that keeps on attacking even after it stops firing. But i've been wondering; what if Pyro were able to branch out into things other than fire? I know it sounds stupid, but when Pyro is boiled down it comes across as a close-quarters fighter, even if the fire isn't there. Could open up several optional "subclasses" of Pyro that work with different elements but nonetheless revolve around the same core concept of close-quarters fighting coupled with detrimental effects, like a "Cryo" that deals with cold and ice, although the mere concept of being anything other than fast doesn't appeal to some people, or an "Electro" that focuses attacks on an enemy with a big old target-locking stream of energy, or even an "Aero" that pushes people around, although Pyros currently have Aero-styled capabilities with the Airblast. Also, in case people claim subclasses are bad just because of Demoknight, the Soldier Bard worked out pretty fine, and he wasn't as spoony as most Bards are in most games.

[QUOTE=Lijitsu;31396609]Damage over time. Bleeding is already more powerful than fire, because it's much harder to get rid of. Dam*Time was weird to look at, he should've just used DoT.[/QUOTE] Heh, thanks. I've only ever seen it as DoT. I dunno, it was just a thought. I'm sure a poison mechanic would work alot differently than bleeds.

[QUOTE=Lijitsu;31396609]Dam*Time was weird to look at, he should've just used DoT.[/QUOTE] I'm a man educated in mathematics, and I will be damned if I represent damage multiplied by time in any other format!

I'd say the Scout has the most original melee weaps of all classes.

Quite so, they're quite interesting when you look at them, rather quirky stats.

[QUOTE=HyperTails;31380454]I'm interested in the new non demoknight weps they have their eyes on though[/QUOTE] I love demo, so $5 says that at least one of those weapons will be a straight upgrade and make me very, very happy.

[QUOTE=ironman17;31396665] Could open up several optional "subclasses" of Pyro.[/QUOTE] One word: Lumberjack. [IMG]http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac173/frosthaven42/LumberjackPyro.jpg[/IMG] [editline]28th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;31396895]I'm a man educated in mathematics, and I will be damned if I represent damage multiplied by time in any other format![/QUOTE] Sorry mate, I'm but a lowly scholar of history.

[QUOTE=Pie_Tony;31378055]$1 says revolver.[/QUOTE] I am all in. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/DfiUA.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;31396414]Another Dam*Time better than afterburn? Bollocks to that.[/QUOTE] It doesn't have to be damage.

[QUOTE=Pie_Tony;31378055]$1 says revolver.[/QUOTE] But why? A revolver fits Engineer better than it does Spy, in my opinion. The spy should be able to have a silenced .22 and engie should be able to have a revolver. [editline]28th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=MrCasual;31394583]I suppose, but he's already a mega gimped class. I just want a new Flamethrower thats got better afterburn mechanics. Maybe replace alt fire with a secondary oil stream that extends afterburn from a longer distance than the flames, and causes flames to mini-crit or harder to remove from liquids in jars and friendly airblasts.[/QUOTE] I'd rather see a flamethrower with the oil spewing mechanic that gets lit by any flame. That, with the flare gun, makes a dangerous flame trap. Though the afterburn would be weaker, but longer. Plus a mechanic that lets you use the oil + flame at the same time, making a huge flame distance, but it drains your ammo faster than balls. Having oil replace the air blast seems a bit of a loss imo, but the ability to utilize it with the flare gun makes up for any inconsistencies.

[QUOTE=Chilean;31393838]Neither of those are character related at all.[/QUOTE] How not?

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;31393681]How many of them are actively used?[/QUOTE] Most of them are pretty commonly used, actually. Axtinguisher being the most used. Regular axe is the only one that is never/rarely used.

[QUOTE=mixshifter;31399303]Most of them are pretty commonly used, actually. Axtinguisher being the most used. Regular axe is the only one that is never/rarely used.[/QUOTE] From what I see, I see Axtinguisher/Pummeler the most, Homewrecker second most, then some Powerjack users, and everything else is hardly ever used unless on something gimmicky like Medieval Mode.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;31400656]From what I see, I see Axtinguisher/Pummeler the most, Homewrecker second most, then some Powerjack users, and everything else is hardly ever used unless on something gimmicky like Medieval Mode.[/QUOTE] I always see it like Axtinguisher - Powerjack - (Huge fucking gap) - Homewrecker - Everything else.

[QUOTE=Ian;31398779]But why? A revolver fits Engineer better than it does Spy, in my opinion. The spy should be able to have a silenced .22 and engie should be able to have a revolver.[/QUOTE] Animations. The engineer doesn't have any animations that fit a revolver. [editline]28th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Psychopath12;31400656]From what I see, I see Axtinguisher/Pummeler the most, Homewrecker second most, then some Powerjack users, and everything else is hardly ever used unless on something gimmicky like Medieval Mode.[/QUOTE] I almost always use the Back Scratcher, unless there's a ton of medics on my team.

I think that part of the reason Engy hasn't had any new weapons is the lack of creative options he has. Whereas the soldier has lots of options open as a general assault class, the Engineer has a very niche roll and I think Valve doesn't want to tinker too much with that. What stats and functions can you add that's new, fun, fitting and useful?

[QUOTE=Soviet Sputnik;31401508]I think that part of the reason Engy hasn't had any new weapons is the lack of creative options he has. Whereas the soldier has lots of options open as a general assault class, the Engineer has a very niche roll and I think Valve doesn't want to tinker too much with that. What stats and functions can you add that's new, fun, fitting and useful?[/QUOTE] I could rattle a few attributes off of the top of my head.

[QUOTE=butters757;31400898]Animations. The engineer doesn't have any animations that fit a revolver. [/QUOTE] Look I know recycling is in Valve's nature, but here's a brilliant idea. Make new animations. Instead of recycling the same animations that have been there since launch make some new ones to freshen up the game. It's tiring seeing new weapons that are just model swapped with the same old animations. They could even get help from community members, the animating and modelling scene for Valve games is unbelievably large. [editline]29th July 2011[/editline] Also Robin is just trying to hide the fact that the classes he plays are getting updates. The guy only plays Demo and Soldier.

[QUOTE=garrynohome;31401594]Also Robin is just trying to hide the fact that the classes he plays are getting updates. The guy only plays Demo and Soldier.[/QUOTE] You're making an insanely dumb implication.

[QUOTE=Ian;31401668]You're making an insanely dumb implication.[/QUOTE] It isn't an implication. The Soldier and Demo have some of the largest if not the largest arsenals in the game. You'll also notice that any time people see Robin on a server he plays Soldier or Demo. He even has special "Valve" demo and soldier weapons. It's a fact that classes he play have gotten more new weapons, I'm not trying to call him out like he's trying to break the game but numbers are numbers.