Oh dear, so much trouble over an event everyone is free to skip and ignore without consequences.
I see no reason why bonk is banned as one sacrifices a quick reloading pistol in order for him to check for traps and scout around.
It lets the scout able to just flat-out stop some engagements for a not insignificant period of time, which would slow the game down somewhat.
[QUOTE=Allstone;31762075]It lets the scout able to just flat-out stop some engagements for a not insignificant period of time, which would slow the game down somewhat.[/QUOTE]
The thing with Bonk in smaller games - you spend a lot of time not being fired upon by the enemy, which means that any push with a Bonk scout means wasted stickies, rockets, or just [i]attention[/i] which creates a bit of an unfair advantage for the team that has exceptional aim.
You also give up a weapon that is used sparingly in competitive play, fights are generally very close-range, and meatshots are king. Switching to the Pistol and firing is comparable to reloading the Scattergun in the first place at close range if you're a good shot. And you're gaining invincibility and the ability to break pushes for that?
I am personally in favor of allowing it just for the possibility of alternate strategies and requiring a bit more communication among teams to recognize Bonk-ers, but it's a tough call.
ITT Pub Players Give Competitive Players Shit While Competitive Players Give Pub Players Shit
[QUOTE=johnlmonkey;31761219]Ive never really enjoyed 6v6 competitive play, even though I used to be the medic of a team. Highlander competition is a lot more fun IMO.[/QUOTE]
you didn't communicate very well :/
[QUOTE=HyperTails;31757438]What's wrong with competitive play without weapon restrictions?
Hell I know competitive matches where you get banned for wearing hats.[/QUOTE]
Only serious leagues that have done this is because if you wear unusual hats, a Spy that disguises as that person doesn't have the unusual effect on his disguise, revealing he is a Spy. If an entire team has unusuals its easy to notice a Spy if you catch him out of cloak.
Pretty valid reason.
[QUOTE=Vaught;31760992]balance in competitive play is overrated i want to use my sandvich and gru and demoknight because i want fun
Christ, you kids.[/QUOTE]
It's fun for you, not fun for others. And the players can easily drop out if they don't like it. The sandvich is a trade-off for a somewhat unused weapon for a instant medkit that heals up to 150. That's horseshit, but honestly, I don't think it should be banned as heavy is not used as much.
Playing demoknight is just like flipping on your team. Your team is reliant on the demoman who has the most powerful primary and secondary weapons that can lay down spam and deny areas extremely effectively. If you trade the best weapon in the whole game for a fucking shield that's only decent with a melee, you're also trading off killing power, as you need to get in people's faces to kill them, and by that time the team would've responded and killed you. Then, your team is 1 person down and looses the point because they didn't have enough people helping out.
Think for your team not yourself.
[QUOTE=HyperTails;31757302]No thanks.
Edit: Competitive play with restrictions on certain weapons is bullshit.[/QUOTE]
It's called "balanced", not bullshit. You must have typoed a bit there. :)
Some of the competitive play restrictions are bullshit.
Like no bullet spread.. guns feel like toys when they shoot a symmetric 3x3 grid of bullets.
also crits.. i can understand why they are not allowed, but i love crits.
hell tf2 is an easy game anyway
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;31781201]Some of the competitive play restrictions are bullshit.
Like no bullet spread.. guns feel like toys when they shoot a symmetric 3x3 grid of bullets.
also crits.. i can understand why they are not allowed, but i love crits.
hell tf2 is an easy game anyway[/QUOTE]
You can use Kritzkrieg for crits, random crits are bullshit. Even some pubs have them disabled.
Random crits are plain luck. Competitive play focuses on skill. Those are, like, the two far ends of the spectrum.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;31781201]Some of the competitive play restrictions are bullshit.
Like no bullet spread.. guns feel like toys when they shoot a symmetric 3x3 grid of bullets.
also crits.. i can understand why they are not allowed, but i love crits.
hell tf2 is an easy game anyway[/QUOTE]
This just proves that you have no idea what competitive play is about. Spread is disabled so that people who can aim are guaranteed a hit. Ill show you how :
[img]http://i.imgur.com/wRHAJ.jpg[/img]
As you can see, bullets go almost where-ever-the-fuck they want. Only 3 bullets/pellets miss due to the spread thats a ~21 dmg loss, which on classes with 125 hp, means life or death pretty often.
Now look at the same weapon (scattergun) with spread dissabled:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/6rfBm.jpg[/img]
It clearly portraits a message : the closer you are, the more bullets will hit, thus, you will do more damage.
While spread can make you either miss a shot sometimes, or help you land a lucky shot you would otherwise miss, it just brings the luck factor in a place where its looked down upon. For the same reason random crits are always turned off.
Imagine your team is winning and you're capturing the last control point. Your medic has a charge ready and you're all happily waiting for the cap. Then suddenly out jumps a soldier and fires a single rocket in the center of your team. Now normally, that wont be enough to kill anything on full hp, though if crits we're turned off, and if the game decided so, it could be a crit. And just like that your WHOLE team is turned into chunks of meat. Why? Because the guy was lucky.
When playing competitively, like in a tournament or something, the goal isnt about making the game "more fun" or realistic, its about giving everyone an equal chance, and letting the people who are best at the game win.
Also, who said tf2 is "hard"?
[QUOTE=Prism;31783255]
Also, who said tf2 is "hard"?[/QUOTE]
roll 4 heavies
win tf2
I still prefer random bullet spray and random crits :v:
I don't really care if some pellets miss when I'm spraying my shotgun, at point blank it's all the same anyway.
And yeah I know all about competitive gaming. Such dick-waving gimp matches in my opinion. Public fighting is where it's at because TF2 isn't too competitive game anyway. Well, the actual reason is that I wouldn't bother with any clan schedules.
[QUOTE=sevee;31780995]It's called "balanced", not bullshit. You must have typoed a bit there. [B]:)[/B][/QUOTE]
WOW YOU SURE KNOW HOW TO MAKE ME CUT MYSELF IN RAGE
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;31785111]I still prefer random bullet spray and random crits :v:
I don't really care if some pellets miss when I'm spraying my shotgun, at point blank it's all the same anyway.
And yeah I know all about competitive gaming. Such dick-waving gimp matches in my opinion. Public fighting is where it's at because TF2 isn't too competitive game anyway. Well, the actual reason is that I wouldn't bother with any clan schedules.[/QUOTE]
Anything can be competetive if there are enough people playing it. The point of it is that skill becomes the main factor, and not random luck. While you may not care about having bullet spray, and even prefer it, you clearly do not play in an environment where bullet spray alone can decide if your character lives, which in turn can decide if your team wins/loses, which [b]in turn[/b] can decide if you win the prize or not.
Why cant I use tomislav in competetive gaymen
noobs :)
gay
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;31785111]I still prefer random bullet spray and random crits :v:
I don't really care if some pellets miss when I'm spraying my shotgun, at point blank it's all the same anyway.
And yeah I know all about competitive gaming. Such dick-waving gimp matches in my opinion. Public fighting is where it's at because TF2 isn't too competitive game anyway. Well, the actual reason is that I wouldn't bother with any clan schedules.[/QUOTE]
Actual reason is you wouldn't bother with any clan schedules, so you're going to make fun of/bad mouth something you don't understand/haven't played/won't ever play (apparently) that has no effect on you and is just a certain group of people having fun in a certain way that [I]they[/I] find fun.
Makes sense.
[QUOTE=Vaught;31784888]roll 4 heavies
win tf2[/QUOTE]
HAHAHAHA! you think heavy takes no skill?
I main heavy and i can tell you its the most best class in tf2
im fucking steamroll you 8) nerd
[QUOTE=Ranik;31792418]Actual reason is you wouldn't bother with any clan schedules, so you're going to make fun of/bad mouth something you don't understand/haven't played/won't ever play (apparently) that has no effect on you and is just a certain group of people having fun in a certain way that [I]they[/I] find fun.
Makes sense.[/QUOTE]
jesus you guys get so defensive.
how many of you even play competitively?
[QUOTE=schleimgurke1;31792662]HAHAHAHA! you think heavy takes no skill?
I main heavy and i can tell you its the most best class in tf2
im fucking steamroll you 8) nerd[/QUOTE]
yeah played a hell of a lot of heavy myself too, not maining it though. have dominated like 4ppl without dying, before f2p. but still it doesnt take that much skill to mow down people with heavy.
bragging about playing heavy in pubs ahahaha " I own evry 1 with heavy with my skill BUT ITS NOT HARD THOUGH"
I have played competitively, though I don't anymore as it cut into my schedule in real life. The most I get anymore is competitive workouts over at MFU and an occasional lobby match.
One thing that comes into discussion (and actually Graham just wrote an article about it [url=http://communityfortress.com/tf2/blog/splash-damage-2.php]here[/url] ) is skill floors vs. skill ceilings.
The Soldier, for example, has both a high skill floor and a high skill ceiling. Shooting rockets for high damage is relatively easy, nailing consecutive airshots and pitch-perfect rocket jumps are very hard.
The Demoman is in roughly the same boat. Simple damage output is fine and dandy, but traps, close-range combat, and jumps can all be perfected upon.
The Scout has a somewhat higher skill floor, but still a high skill ceiling. It's a bit harder to pull off point-blank meatshots, but you still hold a veritable cannon in your hands and you have speed, double jumps, and cap speed to back you up.
Those are the cookie-cutter combat classes...
and then there's the Heavy. A much higher skill floor than even the Soldier, point-and-shoot-rocket-man. There is also only so much you can do as a Heavy - with support, you can mow down anyone in your way by... pointing and holding down M1. GRU-ing at appropriate times and even Sandvich timings / throws can be worked on, but these don't offer nearly the same benefits that airshots and explosive jumping do.
I never understood this 'skill floor/skill ceiling' bullshit.
And if you can aim, you can Heavy. A bullet will always travel down the middle of the crosshair. So you can effectively snipe with the Heavy if your aim is dead on.
Well, if CommFT would hold a highlander i would totally join (I play a mean spy).
But sadly, i am crap at 6v6 so I won't be joining :smile:
[QUOTE=Vaught;31796113]I never understood this 'skill floor/skill ceiling' bullshit.
And if you can aim, you can Heavy. A bullet will always travel down the middle of the crosshair. So you can effectively snipe with the Heavy if your aim is dead on.[/QUOTE]
its something called gamesense. dm isnt everything
[QUOTE=Vaught;31796113]I never understood this 'skill floor/skill ceiling' bullshit.
And if you can aim, you can Heavy. A bullet will always travel down the middle of the crosshair. So you can effectively snipe with the Heavy if your aim is dead on.[/QUOTE]
Skill floor is how effective you can be at an entry-level for the class; essentially it's how good a complete newbie can be. Skill ceiling is how effective you can be at the mastery of the class.
Having a low skill floor is normal in a balanced setting, same with a high skill ceiling. Having a high skill floor and/or a low skill ceiling makes for broken designs. The Spy and Pyro are subject to relatively low skill ceilings because they are most effective when monopolizing on the enemy's mistakes (which are rarer against more-skilled opponents). Heavy can easily be effective even for a new player (pointing at people isn't too difficult of a task anyway); the mitigation of the strategic influences on the Heavy such as the originally-slower spinup speed and how the current sandvich = instant healthkit make it a tad too easy to be effective aside of shooting and prioritizing who to shoot, there's not much more depth beyond that because of how certain items are being simplified for ease of use.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;31781201]Some of the competitive play restrictions are bullshit.
Like no bullet spread.. guns feel like toys when they shoot a symmetric 3x3 grid of bullets.
also crits.. i can understand why they are not allowed, but i love crits.
hell tf2 is an easy game anyway[/QUOTE]
[b]Point 1:[/b] Spread being enabled would bring a big luck factor into comp play, and, like Prism said, luck is generally not welcome in comp play as skill should trump it.
[b]Point 2:[/b] [i]"I can understand why they're disallowed, but I love them so enable them! Omfg comp play is so dumb!!!!"[/i]
[b]Point 3:[/b] TF2 is not an easy game, if you are pitched up against someone of equal or greater skill or co-operation than yours. Your experience with F2P players should not be involved in an argument against competitive play as a whole.
[QUOTE=Sneakman!*;31757826]Weapons are banned because:
1) they were added mid season. can't just change rules on the fly.
2) they aren't fun to play with or against.
3) they aren't fun to watch.
4) they're poorly balanced.
Find me a banned weapon that doesn't fall under those three categories.[/QUOTE]
Caber?! Why ban the caber?
[QUOTE=discodude;31835953]Caber?! Why ban the caber?[/QUOTE]
[quote=Sneakman!*]2) they aren't fun to play with or against.
3) they aren't fun to watch.
4) they're poorly balanced.[/quote]
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