[QUOTE=Corporal Yippie;32064672]go up the long staircase and through the immediate right door
pass by every time[/QUOTE]
You're still going right in front of their spawnroom. Just because they're not quick enough to stop you taking that exit doesn't mean you're not passing in front of them.
Honestly for the longest time I avoided 2Fort like the plague because I hated how it always devolved into a mindless stalemate. Recently I've played it on some good 24-man servers with respawn times and actual good players and it's a ton of fun. The map itself really isn't bad, it's mostly the server you play it on. Instant respawn 32-man servers filled with shitty players makes it the worst map in the world, but a good server with competent players results in a really fun match. The map is pretty well balanced for the most part. Occasionally you get sentry camping in the intel room or 4 snipers derping around on the battlements but generally it's a pretty good map. You could say that just about any map sucks if you're playing on a shitty server.
Now, honestly, if you ask me, Dustbowl's third map is literally the worst map in the game. That's just personal opinion but I find that to be an exercise in tedium on offense. Turbine is pretty terrible too. Both of those maps are far more of a stalemate fest than 2Fort is. But that's just like, my opinion man.
Playing it with F2p is pretty good since they don't know good places to camp etc.
I love 2fort because it's always pretty casual. Nothing really competitive, just a nice experience. Another reason why I love it is because if I'm having a bad time as an offensive class, I can just go sniper and chill on the battlements, occasionally picking off key targets.
Interesting about the stalemate, I've actually had a lot of fun on certain 2fort servers when they devolve into a stalemate. Some are saying it turns into deathmatch, but I disagree, since there's always an overlying goal that people are (usually) working towards.
The only time the map turns to shit is if literally no one tries to get the intel, which definitely can happen sometimes.
[QUOTE=Corporal Yippie;32064578]too bad the intel is piss easy to get[/QUOTE]
To get to the intel, you have to cross that fucking place:
[IMG]http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8862/ctf2fort0002yj1.jpg[/IMG]
And of course, there's the usual engie (if not 5 of them) camping there, and you need either a bonk, a cloak, or a uber to get in there, and I'm not even talking about getting out of there since you can't do that while carrying the intel.
why the hell are you going that way
head to the battlements as scout/soldier/demo
an uber isnt too hard to get
[QUOTE=Corporal Yippie;32064936]why the hell are you going that way
head to the battlements as scout/soldier/demo
an uber isnt too hard to get[/QUOTE]
Needing 2 ubers just to get into the intel room and out isn't an indication that it's a well-designed map :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Spycrabz;32064216]At least it's better than Turbine.
Unoptimized, poorly designed piece of shit[/QUOTE]
Surely you're talking about Doublecross, at least on the "unoptimized" department.
How can Turbine be unoptimized? It's just 3 boxes connected together with tunnels.
[QUOTE=Corporal Yippie;32064936]why the hell are you going that way
head to the battlements as scout/soldier/demo
an uber isnt too hard to get[/QUOTE]
>Implying anyone on your team is a medic (and not a spy/sniper)
>Implying that they give a fuck about capping the intel
I feel like a sperm when I'm trying to get the intel. It's so hard to do.
Because the intel is burried so deep inside the enemy base for some god knows what reason, and the enemy spawn is located right at the entrance of said base.
Plus the map is super basic in the main play areas, and the symmetry doesn't help it stay interesting either (which is a problem with all the CTF maps in my eyes, but at least it is balanced). The only interesting spaces from a gameplay perspective are the underground areas in the intel zone, but hardly anyone gets there cause it is so hard and all the action happens at the bridge and entrances.
AKA stalemate fest where 90% of the action is focused on 20% of the map, and the other 80% can only be reached by following a linear path or two which are easily guarded.
Me and my friends actually managed to get 8 people on our team to engie party in the intel room. We popped two of the sentries just outside the actual room itself as to force the other team to pop ubers early, and when the enemy team managed to uber through the 2 outer sentries we'd rush out en masse and shotgun the medic and his patient to death in one volley.
We covered the entire floor with 16 teleporters and we had 8 dispensers in a corner and 6 level 3 sentries placed around the intel room.
Needless to say it was the most fun I ever had playing tf2.
I play 2Fort all the time, and I can tell you why it's horribly balanced.
It's incredibly easy to defend. There are only two routes into the intel. Both go right by the enemy spawn. Engineers can get their sentries up in no time because they're right by the spawn. Demomen can camp the grate and the only way to dislodge them is to come through the battlements, which you'll either get sniped trying to get their or blown up by the sentry in the hayroom, or come through the sewer, and there's usually a sentry blocking that route.
The intel is so far down into the enemy territory that you get height disadvantage trying to get out with it. The hallways are so cramped you can't see what's behind the corners when you go up the spiral, and you can't see what's in the courtyard when you go straight, so you inevitably get killed trying to get out. Both spots are also easy to snipe people trying to get out. You almost always have to spawn camp the hayroom if you want your team to cap the intel, and spawn camping is not fun or fair. The only time you'll get a cap without spawn camping is when the enemy team is too dumb to stop you walking out with it or you play tug of war for god knows how long trying to drag the intel out and dying each time to move it an inch.
There are no health packs or ammo packs outside the base so you'll wind up wounded before you can even enter, and the enemy team can quickly go back to spawn to heal up (which you can't). You then have to rely on overworked medics and finding fallen ammo while the enemy team can just run back to spawn, or find one of the numerous engies or medics and heal up.
The map is Sniper heaven. All routes going into the base can be easily defended by a good sniper. Walking the bridge is dangerous due to possible snipers in the two entrances, walking the roof of the bridge is dangerous due to snipers on the battlements who have plenty of cover to cornersnipe from (and their spawn is so close they can easily heal up), and the sewer entrance is a long straight line that's perfect for sniping.
The map has exploits that are uneven on both sides. In the blue hayroom you can block entry to the intel with a single dispenser, and you can't do that on red. You can shoot nades through the roof into the Red hayroom from outside on the ground as a demo. You can shoot nades out of a window high up on the left side of the red battlements. You can hear people walking in the sewers when you're downstairs, so you can tell when somebody's coming and can easily defend. Demomen can sticky jump and get stuck high up above the middle battlements and kill with ease, and the only way to get him down is to shoot explosives at him (assuming you see him).
Instant spawn is on almost all 2fort servers, and that just makes it even worse. You can't make any progress if the guy you just killed can come back in an instant, and engineers can set up their broken guns in no time at all.
I still play the map all the time though. Why? Because the matches take forever, and I like to play long deathmatch-like matches. I know the map is horribly unfair but you have to have a really sucky team in order to lose due to the easy defense.
I play 2Fort when I'm in a [highlight]KILL ALL THE THINGS[/highlight] mood. Which is most of the time when I play TF2. :v:
[QUOTE=Mister B;32066123][highlight]KILL ALL THE THINGS[/highlight][/QUOTE]
Oh, look. An unfunny forced meme.
How am I not surprised?
A good indicator that 2fort is a badly designed map is the fact that it requires an uber to get past even the simplest defense there.
[QUOTE=Scarabix;32066165]Oh, look. An unfunny forced meme.
How am I not surprised?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Scarabix;32065074][B]>Implying [/B]anyone on your team is a medic (and not a spy/sniper)
[B]>Implying [/B]that they give a fuck about capping the intel
[/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif[/img]
[editline]1st September 2011[/editline]
24/7 Insta-spawn 32 man is the only way to play 2Fort.
[editline]1st September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;32066231]A good indicator that 2fort is a badly designed map is the fact that it requires an uber to get past even the simplest defense there.[/QUOTE]
Or just a good demoman/soldier/spy.
You either love or hate the sewer tunnels.
If you got a bonk scout and a DH soldier together no defense can stop you. Shame nobody wants to play along with that position
Its funny though, the reason why 2fort is so popular isn't so much because its a good balanced CTF map but because it's a "classic" easy to run simple map that is designed in such a way where most game devolve into deathmatch.
Basically, its the best map to emulate the "TDM" experience with in TF2 IMO. Which explains the 32 player chaos servers for the map being everywhere. Most people that play it in such server never even bother with intel at all, and the ones that do get crushed since its only really possible to win it legit if you are playing against all odds or have a serious team push to win.
[QUOTE=geogzm;32065190]I feel like a sperm when I'm trying to get the intel. It's so hard to do.[/QUOTE]Not a good analogy because you're the only one trying to do so.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;32064982]Surely you're talking about Doublecross, at least on the "unoptimized" department.
How can Turbine be unoptimized? It's just 3 boxes connected together with tunnels.[/QUOTE]
Optimization for maps is very intricate actually.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;32066944]Not a good analogy because you're the only one trying to do so.[/QUOTE]He might be making an analogy to his experience. Don't make fun of his condition.
2fort is a deathmatch
I don't write people off that like 2fort and dustrush I just won't play with them.
I hate cramped, extremely limited maps what can I say.
Another reason why I personally hate 2fort is the theme.
I'm really hating the Industrial and Desert themes of TF2 now-days.
We really need more grassy, mountain maps.
[QUOTE=HyperTails;32068403]
I'm really hating the Industrial and Desert themes of TF2 now-days.
[/QUOTE]
can't beat the classics
I play there when I just want to screw around. I never really play to win, so stalemates don't bother me in the slightest.
[editline]2nd September 2011[/editline]
Besides, aren't [i]all[/i] ctf maps filled with camping engineers?
People don't like it because they claim that engineers turtling and snipers whoring the battlements leads to stalemates. While this may be true, I enjoy it. It turns into more of a "hold the fort" battle, which is enjoyable if you play classes like the Heavy, Soldier or Medic.
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