Spy is the most pointless class in Team Fortress 2 - Games

No.

I just noticed, since the very first time I played TF2 a few years ago except on sniper only servers, I've never been headshotted even once! (that I remember)

[QUOTE=Adam9485;32034968]Good example of spies being [I]useful[/I] would be one of the Saxxy Award winners. Best Coordinated Combat. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sLO13W0kcM[/media] How else would we disable buildings if the Cow Mangler 5000 wasn't added to the game? The way I see it is that Spy is one of the few classes that has essential abilities such as Disguising and Cloaking. These abilities make him useful for getting behind enemy lines, but let's not forget that he has a melee weapon that can kill instantly from behind. There are also the other Spy unlocks that help with different kinds of play-styles. He can observe the names and health of the enemy team as well, allowing him to relay useful intelligence. Medics with the Solemn Vow can have this ability too, but that's a situational unlock that can be chosen to be equipped. Of course, there's always the Sapper to rid the Engineer of his buildings. This can be extremely useful when coordinating your attacks such as the one seen above. tl;dr Spy has many abilities that makes him useful in many situations. Also, don't you think that if the Spy was underpowered and useless, Valve would've given him a buff or two?[/QUOTE] :45 BLU Scout lolwut

[QUOTE=Mico27;32046422]I just noticed, since the very first time I played TF2 a few years ago except on sniper only servers, I've never been headshotted even once! (that I remember)[/QUOTE]unless you've only played it for 10 minutes in total that simply can't be true. (unless you mean as spy, in which case it's still extremely unlikely)

[QUOTE=Lomme;32036951]Oh, and this: [video=youtube;tJ1-gmRVYmA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ1-gmRVYmA&feature=relmfu[/video] Yeah, spy is pointless.[/QUOTE] :26 YOU GOT PREGO ON MY SUIT

[QUOTE=Notsoaveragejoe;32034430]if you removed him from the game, nobody would notice.[/QUOTE] Sounds like a damn good spy in my opinion v:v:v

[QUOTE=Nohj;32034992]not possible. 450 will kill anyone.[/QUOTE] Fists of Steel makes the shot do 270 I believe. (Though the Machina will kill a non over healed FoS heavy)

If you're looking to get better at Spy i'd suggest watching this video and ones like it [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXoAMkugwcgp[/media]

I'm so happy you didn't suggest omfgninja or something. wats's guide is miles better, more thorough, and more recent.

Can I just say, that I enjoy TF2 more when spies aren't playing in that particular game - no longer do I have to worry about watching my back, and I can just get on with things.

[QUOTE=Sneakman!*;32048155]I'm so happy you didn't suggest omfgninja or something. wats's guide is miles better, more thorough, and more recent.[/QUOTE] StabbyStabby is good too (youtube name stabbyvideo). He's recently been adding annotations to videos of him playing, writing remarks about what was going through his head as he played. Here's one of him with the IW, Kunai, and Ambassador [video=youtube;wKAcRQAMltY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKAcRQAMltY[/video]

stabby's fantastic and I while I'd consider his vids informative, impressive, and downright fun to watch, I don't know if I'd call them tutorials they're worth a watch though, and so is this guy [url]http://www.youtube.com/user/tf2gentleman[/url]

[QUOTE=conman420;32044520]Also if anyone says "its hard to not be seen" it really isn't just use height to your advantage and learn how to dive stab, use your own team as a distraction before making your move, [B]people dont check for spies when they're being shot at.[/B] The only time being a spy is luck is when people turn around every 5 seconds because you've killed them 10 times already, just move on and avoid them, they're so paranoid its not like they are helping their team now anyway.[/QUOTE] This a million times THIS.(important part bolded) Anyone who says a spy is useless obviously isn't or has never played with a spy that actually plays as a [B]support[/B] class.Enemy team is being distracted by the main offense, the spy takes out the back row, working forward. I play pyro most of the time(fire is pretty *_*) and the person I play tf2 with the most plays spy the vast majority of the time. The only time he ever backstabs me, is when I'm distracted with someone on the enemy team. I'll be having my little fight, thinking I'm about to win and BAM dead. For that split moment I forgot to check my back and I was gone. We've both dominated each other plenty of times so yes I am able to spycheck. (for note this spy plays with the vanilla set and manages to have a very impressive K:D ratio, meaning without the DR helping them so that note about bad KD is bs, you're just not a good spy)

[QUOTE=Suttles;32045224]Funny, I do it all the time. You gotta confuse the pyro and shit, try to go a way he wouldn't expect. Then once again I use deadringer+enforcer...[/QUOTE] I use that too, only complete shit Pyros fall for that.

If you know your going to get lit, do not hold the dr when going to the pyro, let him lite you and then when out of his reach pull it out.

[QUOTE=Notsoaveragejoe;32034430] [B]1. Spy is completely hampered by enemy competence[/B] Even if you were the world's best Spy, if the enemy team had an ounce of intelligence and [B]constantly checked their backs and called out Spies whenever they saw them (1)[/B], all your skill invested into the class would be for naught. A Spy is [B]too squishy and relies too much on a dumb opponent to make the best out of his potential (2)[/B]. Pyros, Spy's natural enemy and hard counter require minimal skill to work well and [B]a Pyro operating on minimal skill is enough to shut down veteran Spies (3)[/B]. This brings us into the next point ..... [/QUOTE] ... The things I have to say. (My own bolding and numbering) [B]1)[/B]That's right. [B]CONSTANT[/B] paranoia and focusing most of your effort on spy-checking only takes an ounce of intellect. If you slip up once and decide to try and upgrade that teleporter, yer gon' get stabbed, and you are a complete imbecile. If you tell your Heavy friend to go, go, go because you have an Uber ready, you better not focus on the encroaching enemy horde a split second before activating. That's a stabbin'. Dummkopf. Remember the engineer from earlier? After ten painstaking minutes of trying to upgrade his nest while simultaneously checking his back for spies, he finally has everything up to level 3. Time to blow that shit up. But look at that, while you had your good eye on his nest, the other team's Spy stuck his knife into your back. Bloody hell, I don't think they saw that one comin'. I hope you all could taste the sarcasm. [B]2.)[/B] Spies really are too squishy, aren't they? You'd have to be a complete moron to not be able to spot and kill one. Just like Medics are too squishy. And Snipers are too squishy. And Scouts. Too fuckin' squishy.[/sarcasm] You know how these classes survive, though? They stick to their niches. Sometimes. The Scout who uses flanking and ambush tactics to take out his enemies is a Scout who SURVIVES. The Medic who hides behind larger classes while simultaneously boosting their combat effectiveness several times is the Medic who SURVIVES. The Sniper who runs five miles away and shoots him is the Sniper who SURVIVES. Are you seeing a pattern here? The Spy who waits until no one's looking to decloak, and who stays behind his opponents and starts backstabbing at the back of the line, rather than the Heavy at the front, is the Spy who SURVIVES. The Spy who doesn't disguise as the Scout and hovers around the Engineers while yelling "Need a dispensah here!" is the Spy who survives... [B]3.)[/B] The Spy who avoids Pyros like the fuckin' PLAGUE, who takes the road less often traveled, and who doesn't make himself obvious (Snipers don't tend to hang around the Engineer nest at the intel, but they DO hang around the battlements, is a good example) is the Spy who SURVIVES. In fact in all of the above examples, you may have noticed that the enemies' intellect is not in question. Pyros can be good at playing Pyros, but a Spy who notices good Pyros the first time won't have problems with them the second time. Someone who ISN'T Notaveragejoe, am I on the right track here? Or are we all completely incompetent, as his point's title so articulately states? [editline]31st August 2011[/editline] Damn, he appears to be gone. Curses, my glaring social commentary is wasted. [editline]31st August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=mnyfrsh;32046246]No.[/QUOTE] Best pageking.

[QUOTE=Max of S2D;32038097][img]http://img.maxofs2d.net/screenshots/t8ii8s.png[/img] Hello! It looks like you're trying to play competitive TF2. Would you like any help? • I want to suck less at Spy • I want to realize that this game is geared towards fun and not balance for balance's sake • I want to understand that even though I am talking about "high skill level", the Spy is perfectly balanced when it comes to lower skill levels[/QUOTE] wheres the 'cry more' option [editline]1st September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Cructo;32049208]Fists of Steel are useless since the nerf though.[/QUOTE] i liked taunting in front of snipers and taking 3 fully charged headshots and live

[QUOTE=gav618;32049152]If you know your going to get lit, do not hold the dr when going to the pyro, let him lite you and then when out of his reach pull it out.[/QUOTE] That doesn't work since the average Pyro W+M1s after you, so you never get a chance to get out of his range.

[QUOTE=EXoDUSFLT;32047992]If you're looking to get better at Spy i'd suggest watching this video and ones like it [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXoAMkugwcgp[/media][/QUOTE] Watched this all. Now I'm gonna go play Spy. [editline]31st August 2011[/editline] I mean, I do already. But this just put more ideas in my head.

To OP: Hahahahah, no.

1 REALLY good Spy Versus 5 Shitty ones. Either of those factors can seriously change the flow of the game. But in the event of 5 REALLY GOOD Spies. God help us all.

[quote]Sapping sentries? The effort is, to say the least, too much for such a simple task. Why spend minutes sneaking into the enemy base, jumping at shadows and avoiding enemy hostiles before sapping the buildings only to have all your time wasted by a crit wrench and a couple of whacks ruining all your hard work?[/quote] That's the fun of it.

[QUOTE=ulvemann43;32035017]doesent all damage have a slight variation? some small percentages that does not make it hit excactly for one ammount all the time? im pretty sure ive hit a fully charged heatshot for 440 damage before. thought not to mention, a spy can take out one or even more heavy medic pairs in the matter of seconds theoretically while the sniper would make the group scatter into cover before he could fire multiple shots[/QUOTE] I believe that's damage spread. Many servers disable it because you can get 125+ damage midrange rocket splash. Sort of sucks a ton of ass getting one-shotted from thirty-forty feet. Sniper primaries used to not be subject to it, i.e. a no-scope is 50 damage, period. They recently added spread to the primaries which is why you can get one-shotted for 131 damage or so by a spam arrow from across the map. Used to be a fully charged arrow body shot was 120, never more never less. So I used to not give a shit about Huntsman but now it annoys me a good deal when it's purely spammed. I like seeing someone use it skillfully, though. PS: I believe Demo weapons also lack it. So a real trap across the map does the same amount of damage as a campoman sitting on the grate above his stickies all over the 2fort hallway. [editline]31st August 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Psychopath12;32048318]StabbyStabby is good too (youtube name stabbyvideo). He's recently been adding annotations to videos of him playing, writing remarks about what was going through his head as he played. Here's one of him with the IW, Kunai, and Ambassador [video=youtube;wKAcRQAMltY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKAcRQAMltY[/video][/QUOTE] Watching Stabby just gets me down, thinking about the extent to which he is better than me. Like he has 2400 hours, I've got about 100 and he's [I]waaayy[/I] more than 24 times my superior.

The Man of Honor setup is the best for any Spy. Do lots of damage with Enforcer, get a few backs with the Big Earner and escape.

But spy is so fun to play. I just love the sadisfaction when you sneak behind the enemy's payload and manage to backstab 2 heavy and medics pairs along with a demo. Feels good.

Spy's definitely the most difficult class, you need to play it a lot to stay good at it. I haven't played it in 2 months and failed spectacularly today.

im mad because i was 100 uber and i died by spy back-stabed

I do agree, though. Other classes when up against each other can be outmatched by who is the better player. With spies, it reaches a point where it doesn't matter how skilled you are with Spy, you will always lose if the person you are up against is good. Spy is my most played class and it is a fun one but it often becomes extremely frustrating how easily you are taken down by even a slightly skilled opponent. I've seen some of the best spies on the planet in action and when they come up against a half-decent solly or pyro, the only way they can get them is if they're distracted, however this is the case for any Spy and as such it becomes pointless to be skilled at Spy at all. Sure, I annoy people. I get people screaming "facestab" at me all the time, but it just doesn't take much at all for a Spy to get obliterated. The Degreaser/Axtinguisher combo gets me every time, I can only avoid it if I land before I get hit and manage to get a matador stab, but often I'm in the air and unable to do anything. This is especially annoying because pyros who can perform this are often all over the place, never leaving the area where the sentries and other key targets are. The Soldier can shoot you with 1-2 rockets and you're dead, they don't even have to be aimed at you, just near you which means the soldier could be spychecking someone completely different, as they often do and get you. I think a solution that would still be balanced is an item that makes him run a bit faster. I was thinking a light-weight revolver perhaps, which gives you a speed boost and does less damage. Pyros have a set bonus which enables to run faster and it's a massive buff though I am often more annoyed by Soldiers than pyros.

[QUOTE=TentuZero;32035000]Actually..sometimes it seems that head shots hit the mark but don't kill the target. You do some damage with head shots but not kill them entirely. This is common with heavies and soliders.[/QUOTE] What? You clearly aren't charging them enough. Also turn on the show damage above head thing and start headshotting people, then you'll see that the heavies only survive if you don't charge your shots to 450.

[QUOTE=Chubbs;32073536]What? You clearly aren't charging them enough. Also turn on the show damage above head thing and start headshotting people, then you'll see that the heavies only survive if you don't charge your shots to 450.[/QUOTE] The only headshots that deal damage and can be survived are from Huntsman arrows (lower max damage), the Sydney Sleeper (for obvious reasons), the Ambassador (no charging), ones made when the afflicted Spy is holding the Dead Ringer (because resistance), and ones made when the afflicted Heavy is brandishing the Fists of Steel (because resistance). Everything else is from not fully charging a shot or missing but getting a bodyshot; they changed the Rifle's damage spread to be constant a while back, so headshots with the Rifles always do 450 damage (unless a damage modifier comes into play).