September 21, 2011 Beta Patch (Second Misc and Loadout Saving) - Games

And, even at this day and age, NOBODY expects you to airblast with the BB. Those reflect kills are the most rewarding ones.

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;32552918]I don't think it's superior to the stock flamethrower seeing as the airblast takes a giant chunk out of your ammo when used[/QUOTE] Unskilled players don't even know what the airblast is.

Unskilled players are cannon-fodder no matter what FT they are using.

To me it seems like they are trying too hard to buff the Pyro now. They should just give him the old Detonator (with the higher jump) and give him more movement to make better escapes and better attacks.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;32553206]Unskilled players are cannon-fodder no matter what FT they are using.[/QUOTE] They're only cannon-fodder when I'm not a Demoman :c >You are a Demoman. Out of nowhere, 2 Pyros with backburner, charging at you. You are completely defenseless. You try to kill them with direct pipes, or by placing a sticky on the floor while you're running away, but they just don't die. You try to pull out your melee, but you're already dead. >You are a Heavy. Out of nowhere, 2 Pyros with backburner, charging at you. You kill them with the Minigun. The End.

Spy is going to be annoying to play if all those pyro changes hit TF2.

for the 4 of you that still use F5 to take screenshots in TF2, that button now just takes a Steam Screenshot in the beta.

[QUOTE=str00b;32553242]Spy is going to be annoying to play if all those pyro changes hit TF2.[/QUOTE] Only if you mean the sheer number of ex-Pyros coming back playing their favourite mumbling abomination. Stat-wise won't change anything. Spies might fry just 0.2 sec faster.

[QUOTE=str00b;32553242]Spy is going to be annoying to play if all those pyro changes hit TF2.[/QUOTE] Pyro had - 15% damage nerf in the past, that's still 5% less than it used to be. And Spy got Enforcer with 20% more damage and no penalty with DR in the meantime, so I think it's fair.

[QUOTE=COSTA;32553235]They're only cannon-fodder when I'm not a Demoman :c >You are a Demoman. Out of nowhere, 2 Pyros with backburner, charging at you. You are completely defenseless. You try to kill them with direct pipes, or by placing a sticky on the floor while you're running away, but they just don't die. You try to pull out your melee, but you're already dead. >You are a Heavy. Out of nowhere, 2 Pyros with backburner, charging at you. You kill them with the Minigun. The End.[/QUOTE]One player loses to two co-ordinated players. Amazing.

FT changes are good but ultimately pointless, even if the -10% damage on the Degreaser was done correctly [i]and[/i] it had -25% afterburn the weapon switch still makes it leagues better than the other two

[QUOTE=t man;32553979]FT changes are good but ultimately pointless, even if the -10% damage on the Degreaser was done correctly [i]and[/i] it had -25% afterburn the weapon switch still makes it leagues better than the other two[/QUOTE] At least it will stop most of the community from raging against the backburner.

[QUOTE=Maruhai;32554054]At least it will stop most of the community from raging against the backburner.[/QUOTE] The community willalways find something to rage at

[QUOTE=NitronikALT;32554130]The community willalways find something to rage at[/QUOTE] But it won't be the backburner !

[QUOTE=Allstone;32553946]One player loses to two co-ordinated players. Amazing.[/QUOTE] Difference between coordination and determination

[QUOTE=Allstone;32553946]One player loses to two co-ordinated players. Amazing.[/QUOTE] If they're supposed to be cannon-fodder they're supposed to drop dead. I said 2 because if I said 1, I'd get a comment saying "you just suck at demo". It just takes one backburner pyro to fuck my shit up. My main problem with the Pyro, is that I come across a lot of W+M1 and very few fire extinguishing. Where are the Pybros at? Buffing the flamethrower will just make things worse.

[QUOTE=COSTA;32554606]If they're supposed to be cannon-fodder they're supposed to drop dead. I said 2 because if I said 1, I'd get a comment saying "you just suck at demo". It just takes one backburner pyro to fuck my shit up.[/QUOTE] if you're a demoman and can't fight two pyros then you still suck at demoman. pop a few stickies and they're dead, man. I think the real problem between flamethrower Pyros (before beta update) and backburner pyros was, if the two went up against eachother or met eachother around the corner, the backburner can win based solely on damage done alone without the use of any actual tactics.

Natascha and Brass Beast Heavies can't beat other heavies if they come across the corner.

[QUOTE=TheJoey;32554623]if you're a demoman and can't fight two pyros then you still suck at demoman. pop a few stickies and they're dead, man.[/QUOTE] When you're ambushed and cornered as a Demoman you can't do much. I never do well in close quarters, unless I get a lucky crit or something.

So I checked the Beta forum, and it seems there's a pretty big calling for the Detonator to be fixed. Hopefully Valve will see it and actually do something about it. And fire the guy that changed the Detonator without telling anyone right before the update shipped. A guy can dream.

The detonator works great if you practice and have the mindset that it's not supposed to be like a rocket jump. Treat it more like a scouts double jump when you're wondering if you can get up on to, or across something and it will provide much more mobility than wishing you could fly around with it. I do agree that the explosion should light up more than one target though.

[QUOTE=Don Knotts;32556259]The detonator works great if you practice and have the mindset that it's not supposed to be like a rocket jump. Treat it more like a scouts double jump when you're wondering if you can get up on to, or across something and it will provide much more mobility than wishing you could fly around with it. I do agree that the explosion should light up more than one target though.[/QUOTE] Yeah but it's kinda hard to get out of that mindset after testing the Detonator with it being more like a rocket jump. Even then the health sacrificed vs. the distance traveled doesn't seem worth it in the slightest.

[QUOTE=The Calzone;32556582]Yeah but it's kinda hard to get out of that mindset after testing the Detonator with it being more like a rocket jump. Even then the health sacrificed vs. the distance traveled doesn't seem worth it in the slightest.[/QUOTE] You'd be amazed at the interesting places a pyro can end up with a little bit of practice! Like the stair well in Badwater around the back of the last point, or up by Red's spawn from the map room. You can also make it into the sniping windows on Harvest from the ground. I don't, and never wished I could use it for flight, but instead for coming from directions people have never seen a Pyro come from before.

[QUOTE=Don Knotts;32556707]You'd be amazed at the interesting places a pyro can end up with a little bit of practice! Like the stair well in Badwater around the back of the last point, or up by Red's spawn from the map room. You can also make it into the sniping windows on Harvest from the ground. I don't, and never wished I could use it for flight, but instead for coming from directions people have never seen a Pyro come from before.[/QUOTE] I found a video of the Harvest jump you were talking about and while I do admit that it was creative, it wasn't exactly what I was expecting. The guy in the video hopped up on to some barrels, then he det-jumped up on to the little door cover, and then he manually jumped in through the window. Not exactly "from the ground." See, the thing is, in the Beta you didn't need to practice to Det-Jump. You could just point it at your feet and crouch-jump your way on to the 5Gorge central point balconies, just like any other jumping weapon. It was simple and it was worth the health cost. Now, in my hands at least, it's kinda useful for making jumps to places that would be easier just to walk to the proper way. Also if you want to feel really sad, please consult this video. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqNxrcH4ccM[/media] ;_;7

[QUOTE=The Calzone;32556907]I found a video of the Harvest jump you were talking about and while I do admit that it was creative, it wasn't exactly what I was expecting. The guy in the video hopped up on to some barrels, then he det-jumped up on to the little door cover, and then he manually jumped in through the window. Not exactly "from the ground." See, the thing is, in the Beta you didn't need to practice to Det-Jump. You could just point it at your feet and crouch-jump your way on to the 5Gorge central point balconies, just like any other jumping weapon. It was simple and it was worth the health cost. Now, in my hands at least, it's kinda useful for making jumps to places that would be easier just to walk to the proper way. Also if you want to feel really sad, please consult this video. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqNxrcH4ccM[/media] ;_;7[/QUOTE] From the looks of that video and your remarks det-jumping looks too easy And why does nobody consider that rocket jumping is balanced by a lot more than just self damage?

I love Gusty Garden Galaxy music! And yes T man, flare jumping was very easy in the demo. The mobility of a Soldier was nice but I can see why they wouldn't want pyro's flying around the map. Height advantage doesn't help you anyway which is a large reason why I would use something like the old Detonator. But however impractical the height of the jump was to me there's no denying that it was damn fun while it lasted.

Rocket Jumping is used by a quite slow class, and to do so an extremelly powerful projectile is used. Flare Jumping provides a slow, not spammable boost, using a weak projectile that nonetheless drains your health. Having a jump height of rougly half a rocket jump would be good AND balanced. Because nowadays the Pyro is not balanced.

[QUOTE=t man;32557502]And why does nobody consider that rocket jumping is balanced by a lot more than just self damage?[/QUOTE]On the flip side: While explosively airborne, a Soldier or Demoman can rain down death from the skies. While explosively airborne, Pyros are festive sparklers.

[QUOTE=t man;32557502]From the looks of that video and your remarks det-jumping looks too easy And why does nobody consider that rocket jumping is balanced by a lot more than just self damage?[/QUOTE] It was no easier than rocket jumping, and after they fixed the exploit you didn't go any higher than a properly executed rocket jump.

[QUOTE=The Calzone;32556907]I found a video of the Harvest jump you were talking about and while I do admit that it was creative, it wasn't exactly what I was expecting. The guy in the video hopped up on to some barrels, then he det-jumped up on to the little door cover, and then he manually jumped in through the window. Not exactly "from the ground." See, the thing is, in the Beta you didn't need to practice to Det-Jump. You could just point it at your feet and crouch-jump your way on to the 5Gorge central point balconies, just like any other jumping weapon. It was simple and it was worth the health cost. Now, in my hands at least, it's kinda useful for making jumps to places that would be easier just to walk to the proper way. Also if you want to feel really sad, please consult this video. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqNxrcH4ccM[/media] ;_;7[/QUOTE] I still find it sad how even the ENGINEER who's a DEFENCE class has more mobility with his wrangler jumping than the detonator which is on an OFFENSE class.