you're complaining about a weapon you think is overpowered in a custom map with a custom game mode when clearly the weapon was not made for that gamemode or a map that is mostly flat
[QUOTE=TheJoey;34464157]you're complaining about a weapon you think is overpowered in a custom map with a custom game mode when clearly the weapon was not made for that gamemode or a map that is mostly flat[/QUOTE]
Heavie's still pwn half of the people on arena.
Stop trying to protect miniguns they do more kills per second compared to the scattergun.
[QUOTE=thisisacc;34464167]Heavie's still pwn half of the people on arena.
[/QUOTE]
Which is why he needs his sandvich nerfed.
[QUOTE=thisisacc;34464167]Heavie's still pwn half of the people on arena.
Stop trying to protect miniguns they do more kills per second compared to the scattergun.[/QUOTE]
You sir
Are a buffoon
Dm_duel + not so open = NO.
[QUOTE=thisisacc;34464046]No it doesn't while it manages to kill 3-4+ people on [b]dm_duel[/b] compare that to the scout who can only kill 0-1 per life.[/QUOTE]
[del]I call troll on this one. Nobody could possibly that stupid.[/del]
The guy joined this month, he might just be very new and thought dm_duel was an official map. I swear you guys get so ridiculously offended whenever someone sounds even slightly ignorant.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;34464921]The guy joined this month, he might just be very new and thought dm_duel was an official map. I swear you guys get so ridiculously offended whenever someone sounds even slightly ignorant.[/QUOTE]
Considering you have to download the map, I don't think it'll be easy to presume it's official.
Heh... The first map I ever played was a custom arena map. I didn't know it wasn't official.
[QUOTE=Erfly;34465014]Considering you have to download the map, I don't think it'll be easy to presume it's official.[/QUOTE]
But not every new person is aware of how things work. They might not know downloading the map meant it was unofficial because not everyone knows what the heck is going on during the loading sessions. It's just that simple, you learn these things as you meet people and experience it.
When I first played TF2, I didn't know what was going on! I joined this really awesome CTF map called Reb's Basic Training. It was a really cramped CTF map but back then, being cramped wasn't as bad since there were no unlocks to worry about, and everyone was much less experienced since the game is new. I wasn't actually aware it was an unofficial map, I didn't know how the damn game worked. I didn't know that you could make your own maps and then upload it for people to play on just like that. Whatever I saw in the game, I assumed was in the game real time.
You need to understand that not everyone starts playing a game with full knowledge, ESPECIALLY if it's their first Valve game. (since most Valve games work the same server navigation and map-wise.)
aw now I feel like a butt
Hey, I'm just saying. We were all new at one point.
Uhhh I don't think enforcer nerf would help even if they actually put it in game. It's a cannon, you don't need to see his health to know he's down in 2 hits.
And dead ringers with enforcer don't care about increased decloak time, since they can't afford backstabbing people right after decloak for noise - they decloak somewhere in a corner far away from people and then approach them with disguise on.
Heavy nerf is straight retarded, but I guess you don't need my explantation for that.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;34465128]But not every new person is aware of how things work. They might not know downloading the map meant it was unofficial because not everyone knows what the heck is going on during the loading sessions. It's just that simple, you learn these things as you meet people and experience it.
When I first played TF2, I didn't know what was going on! I joined this really awesome CTF map called Reb's Basic Training. It was a really cramped CTF map but back then, being cramped wasn't as bad since there were no unlocks to worry about, and everyone was much less experienced since the game is new. I wasn't actually aware it was an unofficial map, I didn't know how the damn game worked. I didn't know that you could make your own maps and then upload it for people to play on just like that. Whatever I saw in the game, I assumed was in the game real time.
You need to understand that not everyone starts playing a game with full knowledge, ESPECIALLY if it's their first Valve game. (since most Valve games work the same server navigation and map-wise.)[/QUOTE]
That doesn't give him the right to pretend he knows everything and act like a butt.
I wasn't offended by dm_duel as much as I was of the usage of "pwn"
[QUOTE=Executive;34459654]The Enforcer/DR combo is [b]effective[/b].[/QUOTE]
No it isn't. Combat spy is stupid. You're better off playing scout.
[QUOTE=Executive;34459654]Also, have to completely disagree with "maximize efficiency" and "play the class as it was intended". Spies that take their time, and spend more than 10 seconds standing still hoping to catch someone on the end are useless. I rather have a duel threat spy, one that can get in your face, get shots in, dead ring, and then get shots in from behind you.[/QUOTE]
This might actually be the most ignorant statement I've read all week.
[QUOTE=Hilarious Pill;34464001]Because the stock minigun definitely needs a nerf[/QUOTE]
Not so much a nerf as a removal of an unnecessary buff (spin-up)
[editline]30th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;34454467]The attack/defense/support is not quite accurate to begin with, the classes are far more flexible than that. Having 5 combat classes, 2 support classes, and 2 elimination classes is a better way of getting all 9 classes described in 3 groups.[/QUOTE]
I really wish they'd gone with what Robin Walker once said it as, [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=ULNh_ItF1wOT0&v=Nh_ItF1wOT0#t=772s]"generalists vs specialists"[/url]
Makes so much more sense and I think the offense/defense/support have, subconsciously or otherwise, influenced a lot of people's opinions on the classes in a negative way
[QUOTE=CharlesMan;34465957]That doesn't give him the right to pretend he knows everything and act like a butt.[/QUOTE]
I can easily concur, I was only referring to the dm_duel portion of the conversation.
[QUOTE=thisisacc;34464046]No it doesn't while it manages to kill 3-4+ people on [h2]dm_duel[/h2] compare that to the scout who can only kill 0-1 per life.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/aw3tvn.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=lol user;34471433][IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/aw3tvn.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
You just needed an excuse to use that absolutely glorious gif., didn't you?
Sandvich nerf was a necessity. No other class in the game has the ability to restore that much HP whenever they want. Medic has to use the Kritz, and then taunt, and even then it's only 10HP restored. Soldier and Demoman have to use the Half-Zatoichi, and that's dependent on getting a kill with it, not to mention being locked into it until they get a kill. The downside of the Sandvich was supposed to be that it made the Heavy very vulnerable when he used it to restore his HP. He taunts, and makes that loud "OM NOM NOM, NOM NOM" noise. Letting him gain health from throwing it completely removes that downside.
Tomislav - I have no idea what the hell Valve was smoking when they thought of this nerf, but I want some of it. Tomislav should be the burst damage gun. Instead of nerfing its spin-up time, it should have had a scaling damage reduction the longer its fired. Either through a flat decrease in damage per bullet, or its rate of fire slowing to a crawl with prolonged use. Ideally? In my opinion it should be most effective in the first three seconds of firing it, then completely tanking past that.
Enforcer needed a nerf that affected the Dead Ringer, but I don't think this is still enough - increase it to whole extra second longer to decloak and I'll be on board with it. The lack of being able to see enemy HP is a good start (but it's yet to be revealed if the fact that Spies can disguise as the enemy team and STILL see enemy HP that way is a bug or intended), but really the main part which irks the hell out of people is the sheer raw power of it. It does too much damage in too quick a time. At least the Ambassador has the cooldown mechanic between its 102 damage headshots. You want to nerf the Enforcer? Fine. This is how you do it. You cap how fast it can dish out those 50-60 damage shots. Either through an Ambassador-like system where you have to have the gun cooled down to get your bonus 20% damage, or a flat increase in the time between each shot fired.
I remember how my heart raced when I saw the winger and how much I loved it... I fucking love BANG!.
Anyway back on subject, I like the Sandvich nerf because it makes the weapon more close to its original concept, Heavy eats, punch's out blood.
The Tommy is just silly though and unneeded.
I really, REALLY want to see a winger and brass beast buff.
Erm, the VANILLA Revolver can dish 50-60 damage shots as well. Underated weapon I started to use when I got a strange one, and the only trouble I got is getting used to the longer viewmodel messing my aim.
Enforcer is unbalanced, but not that overpowered. 2 shots with the Vanilla revolver at the range the Enforcer 2 hits light classes leaves them with 5 HP. It still one-shots Kunai Spies, 2-shots Big Earner Spies and Sandman Scouts, 3-shots Medics. It 3-shots instead of 4-shotting Pyros, true, but the Ambassador 2-shots them. And 5-shotting instead of 6-shotting level 3 buildings is nice and all.
I do not want to have a nerf gun such as the Brass Beast if I want some extra power. This weapon is extra power at the cost of stealth, and you still have 125 HP. With the nerf it is fine, now if the Spycycle gets some fixes to display in the killfeed and something other, no problem anymore.
Speaking of the brass beast, either you aren't as slow when firing it, or you do more damage, but as it is now it just sucks. Not to mention the whole lack of sinergy with the rest of the set.
Winger to me always looked like the opposite of Enforcer - it has negligible upside and a big downside. It'd indeed be really nice if they did something about it.
The winger is good as "finisher" with the soda popper crits, but it isn't accurate enough, I hope too Valve buffs it.
Enforcer is that kind of weapon that wasn't supposed to be put in game in the first place - I mean, why even give revolver more damage? I use vanilla revolver myself and I sometimes find it OP, and people even think I use enforcer from time to time. Does increased damage make spy more interesting? More strategic? More sneaky? No. It does nothing except make people think you're a faggot.
Dead Ringer is another fine example - they nerfed it in the past, but it's still not enough, and if they nerf it more it will become absolutely useless. Another concept that doesn't add anything new to espionage, only makes it easier.
Where does Valve/the TF2 team get the feedback from as to what to nerf and how the changes are?
I want suggest some stuff, including a Brass Beast buff.
I want to like the Winger because I like the way it looks, but it just runs out of clip way too fast and doesn't work that well at all with the Soda Popper.
[QUOTE=DatWut?;34477336]Where does Valve/the TF2 team get the feedback from as to what to nerf and how the changes are?
I want suggest some stuff, including a Brass Beast buff.[/QUOTE]
SUF
...
yep, we're doomed
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;34477361] SUF
...
yep, we're doomed[/QUOTE]
Well, so far we weren't doomed THAT much.
I don't really see what's wrong with the brass beast, I've had no problems with it when playing on defence (which I think you're supposed to). It's pretty situational I guess, but it's not alone in that regard (Diamondback and Manmelter comes to mind, among others).
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