you don't really save any time by using the BB. The enemy dies in pretty much the same amount of time, but you're practically immobile while revved and it takes you longer to rev so you end up taking longer to kill the enemy.
I guess if there's tons of enemies in mid range, you don't have to move, and you're next to a dispenser just firing, then it might be better. But in average play it just doesn't really save enough killing time to matter
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34477945]The dead ringer is not overpowered, the short cloak time and loud uncloak sound makes it near useless when trying to get behind enemies. And getting a believable faked death is quite risky because you can't really walk around with the DR activated all the time without making your faked death look suspicious.[/QUOTE]
All DR spies I've ever met were obvious as fuck but they don't even have to care, for invincibility.
-snip, wrong thread again =/ -
Usually the area I need to defend isn't so large, so the speed reduction doesn't become too much of a problem. I try to stay revved most of the time to be ready if any enemies come, so the rev thing isn't too much of a problem either. If I'm caught unrevved there's always the shotgun. Health and ammo shouldn't be a problem if there's medics and/or engineers nearby. The reduced speed does make me a somewhat easier target but the large healthpool keeps me alive for at least a while. If they do kill me there's always the rest of my team to deal with (well, usually). I guess the damage increase isn't [I]that[/I] much, but it just might make a difference, so I might as well take it.
On offence the stock minigun is probably the better choice though. The brass beast just doesn't give me enough mobility here. This is why I think it's more of a situational weapon.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34477945]The dead ringer is not overpowered, [/QUOTE]
i don't know about you but i rage quit when i'm engi or pyro up against a deadringer and spycicle, because they just don't even have to put in effort to run around obvious while sapping shit then use their get-out-of-jail-free card (both of them), collect metal, then come back to harass again.
when someone can decide "hmm i can be stealthy... OR I CAN JUST NOT, FUCK IT, AND HARASS ALL DAY" and then pick the dead ringer because it's easier to use, then that is what overpowered is.
the enforcer does not need to be nerfed, deadringer needs to be changed to allow for enforcer's negatives actually affect it somehow.
The Enforcer nerf is perfect.
I personally won't be using it, a good quarter of my revolver usage is picking off opponents I see in the red.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;34477361]
SUF
...
yep, we're doomed[/QUOTE]
If they did we'd have seen these changes in the full game months ago, not to mention the Wrangler or other such horribly imbalanced weapons
[editline]31st January 2012[/editline]
Also there are more people on SUF who aren't balance-retarded than there are on facepunch, they just get overshadowed cause the idiots outnumber both combined
Check this SPUF thread out: [url]http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2233893[/url]
[QUOTE=t man;34480078]If they did we'd have seen these changes in the full game months ago, not to mention the Wrangler or other such horribly imbalanced weapons
[editline]31st January 2012[/editline]
Also there are more people on SUF who aren't balance-retarded than there are on facepunch, they just get overshadowed cause the idiots outnumber both combined[/QUOTE]
A good majority of the time, it's just preaching to the choir or shouting into the void. It's rarely worth it unless you can get the attention of the TF team. Rallying enough people just isn't enough by itself considering how small a percentage of the entire TF community that these forums accommodate.
If you've got connections, however, it can be a bit easier to get their attention, but it's still a difficult task to do.
[QUOTE=mnyfrsh;34479547]The Enforcer nerf is perfect.
I personally won't be using it, a good quarter of my revolver usage is picking off opponents I see in the red.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't say it's perfect, but still can't say it's awful or unwelcome either - at least they do realize it's OP and that knowledge warms my heart.
[img]http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/9b/9b6e7eb92833bd56c1aaaf7ab832cedcbbb20d15_full.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Drury;34481662]Wouldn't say it's perfect, but still can't say it's awful or unwelcome either - at least they do realize it's OP and that knowledge warms my heart.
[img]http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/9b/9b6e7eb92833bd56c1aaaf7ab832cedcbbb20d15_full.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
They're not acknowledging the weapon's alleged brokenness so much as they're simply attempting to pander to a conglomeration of griping, spoiled children.
SPUF: WAAAAH, WAAAAH. I GET KILLED BY ENFORCER SPIES, NERF NAO!11
Valve: Sure. *nerfs Enforcer*
SPUF: OH GOD I STILL GET KILLED, NERF MAOR
Valve: Okay. *nerfs Enforcer*
SPUF: THE ENFORCER STILL RUINS MY KDR, OMFG!111
Valve: As you command! *nerfs Enforcer to the point where the Enforcer is useless*
SPUF: Thank you mommy! I love you!
Well, if the tomislav no longer spins up really fast, then i'm not going to be using it anymore.
[QUOTE=Magmacow358;34501982]Well, if the tomislav no longer spins up really fast, then i'm not going to be using it anymore.[/QUOTE]
Nobody will. It will be Natascha 2.0.
Enforcer nerf doesn't matter to me since the decloak time nerf doesn't apply to dead ringers (apparently).
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;34476322]Erm, the VANILLA Revolver can dish 50-60 damage shots as well. Underated weapon I started to use when I got a strange one, and the only trouble I got is getting used to the longer viewmodel messing my aim.
Enforcer is unbalanced, but not that overpowered. 2 shots with the Vanilla revolver at the range the Enforcer 2 hits light classes leaves them with 5 HP. It still one-shots Kunai Spies, 2-shots Big Earner Spies and Sandman Scouts, 3-shots Medics. It 3-shots instead of 4-shotting Pyros, true, but the Ambassador 2-shots them. And 5-shotting instead of 6-shotting level 3 buildings is nice and all.
[/QUOTE]
The time in between the second and third shot can make all the difference if you kill the Spy or not
And if the stock Revolver is so strong then why did Spy need a weapon like this in the first place?
[editline]1st February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;34502299]Nobody will. It will be Natascha 2.0.[/QUOTE]
Good. Natascha is fundamentally flawed as well
At least this time the team is having the balls to straight up remove the aspect of the weapon that makes it OP
Sasha is and always has been the best Minigun. No contest.
[QUOTE=t man;34504037]The time in between the second and third shot can make all the difference if you kill the Spy or not
And if the stock Revolver is so strong then why did Spy need a weapon like this in the first place?[/QUOTE]
He didn't. That's the thing. The Ambassador was a brilliant concept, as it added to his ability to instant kill. While 102 damage isn't necessarily "instant," it's a hefty chunk of damage no matter how you look at it. Players are rewarded for accuracy and punished otherwise.
The Enforcer is simply a broken concept. It takes the "More damage!" perk of the Ambassador without giving a proper downside. There's no incentive to play well, as one could technically spam the button and get kills easily.
Honestly, the only other downside that comes to mind is either a slower reload or much worse accuracy. If you slow the firing rate, all you have is a dumbed down Ambassador.
[QUOTE=GastricTank;34504274]Sasha is and always has been the best Minigun. No contest.[/QUOTE]
Iron Curtain. B)
[QUOTE=Unisath;34504287]
Iron Curtain. B)[/QUOTE]
Viewmodel is off compared to Sasha. Plus, they're aren't any strange Iron Curtains, and I like me some stranges.
[QUOTE=t man;34504037]The time in between the second and third shot can make all the difference if you kill the Spy or not
And if the stock Revolver is so strong then why did Spy need a weapon like this in the first place?
[editline]1st February 2012[/editline]
Good. Natascha is fundamentally flawed as well
At least this time the team is having the balls to straight up remove the aspect of the weapon that makes it OP[/QUOTE]
Your irrational lack of cogent or logical thought is amusing. We should be encouraging diversity; that's the whole point of introducing novel weapons. Why clutter the game's code with pointless and inutile items? All I've seen from you is a willingness to despoil nearly every unlock Heavy has that's even remotely useful.
[QUOTE=GastricTank;34504274]Sasha is and always has been the best Minigun. No contest.[/QUOTE]
Though technically it's the same I love the Iron Curtain.
I want a natascha buff. It used to be a legit sidegrade, would love for it to make a comeback.
[QUOTE=UntouchedShadow;34502390]Enforcer nerf doesn't matter to me since the decloak time nerf doesn't apply to dead ringers (apparently).[/QUOTE]
Dead Ringer doesn't decloak immediately and thus this nerf does have effect on it, but like I said before, it's no good.
EDIT: Natasha is awesome, although very situational. When you're a lone heavy, it's better to use Sasha or Curtain.
[QUOTE=Drury;34510731]Dead Ringer doesn't decloak immediately and thus this nerf does have effect on it, but like I said before, it's no good.
EDIT: Natasha is awesome, although very situational. When you're a lone heavy, it's better to use Sasha or Curtain.[/QUOTE]
Funny, because Natasha was made for especially lone heavies.
How's that.
Natascha:
On Hit: 100% chance to slow target
-25% damage penalty
Brass Beast:
+50% damage bonus
50% slower spin up time
-60% slower move speed while deployed
Tomislav:
+40% faster spin up time
Silent Killer: No barrel spin sound
20% slower firing speed
-25% damage penalty
Enforcer:
+20% damage bonus
0.5 sec increase in time taken to decloak
Unable to see enemy health when undisguised
Increased decloak sound volume
Phlogistinator:
All fire damage increases 'Mmmph', activate to refill health and crit for several seconds
-10% damage penalty
Deals only 20% damage to buildings
No random critical hits
No airblast
Manmelter:
(Is a Laser gun instead of a Flare gun)
Pomsom:
Does not require ammo
Projectile penetrates enemy targets
Projectile cannot be deflected
On Hit: Victim loses 10% Medigun charge
On Hit: Victim loses 20% cloak
Deals only 20% damage to buildings
Big Earner:
+100% cloak on kill
-15 max health on wearer
Spycycle:
On Hit by Fire: Become fireproof for 2 seconds
Backstab turns victim to ice
Melts in fire, regenerates after 15 seconds
-25 max health on wearer
I'd do that. I'd play with that.
[QUOTE=royaldanney;34511208]Funny, because Natasha was made for especially lone heavies.[/QUOTE]
Really? I thought it was to help your teams get assists. Tho I guess it also works if you want to prevent people from escaping fights.
Christ there's been a lot of arguing.
I don't get it, why is valve added itsy bisty spyer, pocket medic fixes and the rest. Whilst this is just sat there.
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3908[/url]
[editline]3rd February 2012[/editline]
Come to think of it, I'd rather not think how many unaccepted fixes there are.
the Aspect Clipping fix and the Pyro's Reserve Shooter both need to seriously be considered.
I don't even know why the Pyro Reserve Shooter texture isn't in the game yet, it's perfect.
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