I don't think the enforcer nerf is going to make spies using it any less rage inducing.
The fact of the matter is: it can still two shot light classes. That's the annoying part for me.
[QUOTE=CharlesMan;34422637]If I were you I'd be more worried about hurt Heavies now disengaging combat while you heal them and stopping for four seconds to snack.[/QUOTE]
Why would a Heavy EAT his sandvich when he's being healed by a Medic. I've never seen someone do that (only F2Pers).
[QUOTE=Desuh;34421909]I will just use the steak. Its not like I ever used the full heal future of the sandvich.[/QUOTE]
You have a point, a LOT of people just throw the Sandvich to eat it instead of taunting with it, guess a lot of people will be using the Steak a lot now just for that.
[editline]28th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=slashsnemesis;34422640]I don't think the enforcer nerf is going to make spies using it any less rage inducing.
The fact of the matter is: it can still two shot light classes. That's the annoying part for me.[/QUOTE]
And one crit is an instant kill for almost anyone, it's funny that of so many weapons to have the "No Random Crits" attribute, they didn't give that one to the Enforcer :v:
I think the No Seeing Enemies Health is too big of a downside, Maybe no see enemy health while active would be more appropriate as the whole reason spies use their primary is picking off strategic targets from a distance. For a pub spy who just goes rapid fire, it doesn't really effect them and for those who have tracking ability and can get 2-3 consecutive shots, it doesn't effect them too much either but for someone in the middle like me, Seeing the enemy health has a huge gameplay effect.
Just don't do anything to Equalizer. It's perfectly balanced as it. The lower hp the more damage & speed is also good, since you can be killed with 1 rocket.
[QUOTE=Barobax;34422830]I think the No Seeing Enemies Health is too big of a downside, Maybe no see enemy health while active would be more appropriate as the whole reason spies use their primary is picking off strategic targets from a distance. For a pub spy who just goes rapid fire, it doesn't really effect them and for those who have tracking ability and can get 2-3 consecutive shots, it doesn't effect them too much either but for someone in the middle like me, Seeing the enemy health has a huge gameplay effect.[/QUOTE]
If you want to be tactical and pick off low health enemies, don't use the enforcer, use any of the other available revolvers.
The only sad part is that you won't be able to heal your Medic.
[QUOTE=Humblerbee;34422882]If you want to be tactical and pick off low health enemies, don't use the enforcer, use any of the other available revolvers.[/QUOTE]
I try to use the vanilla revolver as much as I can but all the other unlock ones have damage penalties which override their positive attributes.
[QUOTE=Zadrave;34422905]The only sad part is that you won't be able to heal your Medic.[/QUOTE]
The only sad part is that reading comprehension is deteriorating.
[QUOTE=Barobax;34422920]I try to use the vanilla revolver as much as I can but all the other unlock ones have damage penalties which override their positive attributes.[/QUOTE]
And right now, the Enforcer has almost no effective downsides to it, so it's an obvious upgrade, especially with the dead ringer. See, now it's a choice you have to make, that's balance.
I like how useless they've made the Tomislav. It wasn't even OP when it released (okay it was a LITTLE OP), just too new for people to learn how to counter it. Just like the fists of steel, and the sandvich. Heavy would be ashamed to learn that Valve had been listening to babies.
I still don't think the enforcer is getting fixed.
I would prefer an X% less cloak time. Well, I'd really prefer it not 2-shot lightweights, but I think the damage is staying.
The enforcer would be fine if the downside was only 0.5 increased decloak time.
Give the "Unable to see enemy health" to Ambassador instead, so they don't go "oh he doesn't have a lot of health, I'll just bodyshot him, it's easier".
Yes I think the Ambassador is op, it's an Enforcer with no downside for those who can aim.
I like how everyone here loves the Tomislav Nerf.
People used it for it's speed, no one gave a shite about how it has a silent spin-up.
Well, [I]someone[/I] might care about the silence, but I don't.
whats the point of using the tomislav now? wasn't the whole point that it had near instant spin-up?
[QUOTE=Ern;34423107]I like how everyone here loves the Tomislav Nerf.
People used it for it's speed, no one gave a shite about how it has a silent spin-up.
Well, [I]someone[/I] might care about the silence, but I don't.[/QUOTE]
They might be rolling out other changes that alter the core-class, which will in-turn affect the Tomislav even if the attributes don't list it, all of the other miniguns would inherit the changes as well if they do anything.
[QUOTE=Garbor 0.1;34422415]The Sandvich nerf is fucking stupid, it was the only reason i used it.[/QUOTE]
So basically, you lack the ability to teamplay as a Heavy.
Ern is right, it was all about spin-up.
Also, if it's a beta update, then what did my non-beta TF2 just download?
I'll repeat what others have said: why nerf Tomislav? It's already been nerfed to hell, to the point where its just not good. At least the Family Business and Enforcer are useful if you have bad aim, but Tomislav leave you a sitting duck with a sub par weapon, waiting to be picked off by Soldiers and non-tomislav heavies. Hell, I've killed heavies with a chargin Targe and Demopan because they use the Tomislav. If they used anything else, I'd be torn to shreds.
Enforcer Nerf doesnt affect me much. Dead Ringer isnt affected by the cloak issue. And if you must use a different watch, either be more careful or use the stock revolver.
I can understand the mindset of the Sandvich nerf, but I just dont like it. I liked the quick heal, even if it was unfair. Good thing I use the Steak Sandvich.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;34423171]So basically, you lack the ability to teamplay as a Heavy.[/QUOTE]
Referring to the Garbor or to the nerf?
[QUOTE=MightyMax;34423163]whats the point of using the tomislav now? wasn't the whole point that it had near instant spin-up?[/QUOTE]
You can be spun up around a corner and waiting for people and they'll have no idea that you're there until they're being shot at. If you tried that with any other minigun, they'd either hear you or you'd need to start spinning up the instant you see them.
[editline]27th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=maxumym;34423172]Ern is right, it was all about spin-up.
Also, if it's a beta update, then what did my non-beta TF2 just download?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/January_27,_2012_Patch[/url]
[QUOTE=ZombiPlastiClok;34423176]I'll repeat what others have said: why nerf Tomislav? It's already been nerfed to hell, to the point where its just not good. At least the Family Business and Enforcer are useful if you have bad aim, but Tomislav leave you a sitting duck with a sub par weapon, waiting to be picked off by Soldiers and non-tomislav heavies. Hell, I've killed heavies with a chargin Targe and Demopan because they use the Tomislav. If they used anything else, I'd be torn to shreds.
Enforcer Nerf doesnt affect me much. Dead Ringer isnt affected by the cloak issue. And if you must use a different watch, either be more careful or use the stock revolver.
I can understand the mindset of the Sandvich nerf, but I just dont like it. I liked the quick heal, even if it was unfair. Good thing I use the Steak Sandvich.[/QUOTE]
No, sir. DR is affected. Enforcer nerf was MADE to harden the lifes of Enfroceringer spies.
Other than spies, how many players now-a-days do you see being sneaky, checking corners and shit? Most of them just blindly walk around them...[QUOTE=Psychopath12;34423183]You can be spun up around a corner and waiting for people and they'll have no idea that you're there until they're being shot at. If you tried that with any other minigun, they'd either hear you or you'd need to start spinning up the instant you see them.
[editline]27th January 2012[/editline]
[url]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/January_27,_2012_Patch[/url][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ZombiPlastiClok;34423176]Enforcer Nerf doesnt affect me much. Dead Ringer isnt affected by the cloak issue. And if you must use a different watch, either be more careful or use the stock revolver.
I can understand the mindset of the Sandvich nerf, but I just dont like it. I liked the quick heal, even if it was unfair. Good thing I use the Steak Sandvich.[/QUOTE]
Enforcer Nerf affects DECLOAK not cloak. So it does affect Dead Ringer.
Buffalo Steak Sandvich has all changes made to the Sandvich, that's how inheritance works.
[editline]27th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=MightyMax;34423199]Other than spies, how many players now-a-days do you see being sneaky, checking corners and shit? Most of them just blindly walk around them...[/QUOTE]
Who needs to check corners for a Heavy in waiting when you can plainly hear "WHIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRR" on the other side of a wall?
Sandvitch nerf best nerf.
I primarily used the Tomislav to quickly defend myself against ambush scouts and spies.
Now I will have to go back to using the shotgun.
I really like the idea of a spy that cannot see enemy health as a downside to a weapon, but I don't think the downside really fits the Enforcer that well. With the Enforcer I am generally a lot more aggressive because I know I can take out most classes quickly, and I don't need to see their health to know that.
The sandvich nerf is a buff in my opinion. Most of the time, whoever I throw my sandvich at doesn't see it and now I have a second chance to throw it.
I think they should add that quick switch bug that was on the Iron Curtain where you could switch to your secondary or melee without waiting for spin-down to the Tommislav, It would encourage using the Family Business or a melee.
They nerfed my gun again?
Fuck, Valve. Leave Tommy alone. A lot of work went into making that and it should at least be useful.
I actually hope the Sandvich nerf makes it into the game. Now the Heavy won't be such a walking fucking wall.
I find it annoying how they switch between changing things in the regular game and adding stuff to the beta.
They rarely use the beta for anything important.
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