I don't think the health information for the enforcer is necessary, but it's not too much either.
What I want to know if the decloak sound plays for longer now, making it more obvious that a spy is around.
Hopefully this passes through, I really want to see more shotgun Heavies, and less Heavies holding their mommy's hand into the battlefield.
[QUOTE=vkggg;34424639]I don't think the health information for the enforcer is necessary, but it's not too much either.
What I want to know if the decloak sound plays for longer now, making it more obvious that a spy is around.[/QUOTE]
I don't think the sounds can play any longer without Valve adding in slowed-down versions of the normal cloak sound files into the game.
[QUOTE=Psychopath12;34424398]Spy originally wasn't able to see his enemy's health. It's not impossible to manage with as a Spy.[/QUOTE]
I fail to see why that matters, especially since
1. This ability has been in the game longer than it hasn't
2. This ability was added before any of Spy's new weapons were added
3. Every other revolver can see health, including the Ambassador, which now does the Enforcer's niche better than the Enforcer can
the Enforcer needed to have it's downside fixed with the DR. This was fixed. It didn't need another downside, when used with any other cloak the weapon is balanced, if not a little underpowered.
First the tomislav (silent spinup) gets added
then the holiday punch (you must "backpunch" to make your enemy laugh)
Is valve trying to create a stealthy heavy subclass?
It's a good thing I've been using the Brass Beast since I got a strange one.
And the Ambassador since I got a strange one of those, too.
Although, I don't think a single nerf has ever affected my playstyle.
I'm still wrapping my head around where Valve got this idea Heavy could be an ambush class. He's like the anti-ambush class, none of his abilities compliment ambushing at all...
Next they'll make a tanky Scout loadout or something and pretend it's actually a legit use for Scout.
Oh my god.
I just realized how long it's been since I've actually caught a Heavy actually EATING a sandwich.
It... It was a beautiful thing.
I'm so glad we're having it back.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;34424734]I fail to see why that matters, especially since
1. This ability has been in the game longer than it hasn't
2. This ability was added before any of Spy's new weapons were added
3. Every other revolver can see health, including the Ambassador, which now does the Enforcer's niche better than the Enforcer can
the Enforcer needed to have it's downside fixed with the DR. This was fixed. It didn't need another downside, when used with any other cloak the weapon is balanced, if not a little underpowered.[/QUOTE]
Without the ability to see health, the Enforcer requires more of a commitment and gamble when it comes to gunning people down. You don't know how much health they have left unless you're really good at counting damage they take from spam and your own bullets. The extra damage allows you to seal the deal with more consistency in the event that you chose a healthy target to go after. The thing can still down light classes in 2 shots and the bulkier ones in 3, the thing's damn powerful. Allowing the Spy to even more effectively pick and choose who he fights is a scary thing when he has the ease of concealing his position. Imagine how dangerous a good Scout would be if he could see your health at all times. The Enforcer has comparable DPS to the Scattergun, to better put that into perspective (assuming that not all Scattergun pellets will connect 100% of the time). The Spy is just slower and less mobile in exchange for the ability to easily land that first shot from concealment.
It's a tradeoff, let them test the damn thing.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;34424973]I'm still wrapping my head around where Valve got this idea Heavy could be an ambush class. He's like the anti-ambush class, none of his abilities compliment ambushing at all...
Next they'll make a tanky Scout loadout or something and pretend it's actually a legit use for Scout.[/QUOTE]
Well, I know at least one ambush tactic for heavies
Corner camping
Even without the tomislav is easy to corner camp because the spin up time isn't too long. Anyways, I haven't see many people doing this, but is really annoying for classes with 125/150 HP
that would be fine and dandy, but the Enforcer already has a downside [b]on top[/b] of the no seeing health. It would be fine if it were either/or, but the two stacked on top is just overkill.
They fixed the DR not having a downside with it. That was enough, it didn't need another con.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;34425096]that would be fine and dandy, but the Enforcer already has a downside [b]on top[/b] of the no seeing health. It would be fine if it were either/or, but the two stacked on top is just overkill.
They fixed the DR not having a downside with it. That was enough, it didn't need another con.[/QUOTE]
[i]Let them test the damn attribute[/i]
also turns out there's a bug (or maybe intended?) that you only lose the ability to see health when the Enforcer is the active weapon. When using any other weapon (like a knife) you can still see enemy health.
That might be okay if they keep it that way.
[QUOTE=Psychopath12;34425122][i]Let them test the damn attribute[/i][/QUOTE]
Because we all know that's worked wonderfully in the past and Valve has listened to beta feedback and didn't just do whatever the hell they wanted when the changes hit the real game.
That certainly hasn't ever happened before...
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;34425132]also turns out there's a bug (or maybe intended?) that you only lose the ability to see health when the Enforcer is the active weapon. When using any other weapon (like a knife) you can still see enemy health.
That might be okay if they keep it that way.
[/quote]
Spy-Cicle is like that too. Maybe it's a thing local to just that weapon.
[quote]
Because we all know that's worked wonderfully in the past and Valve has listened to beta feedback and didn't just do whatever the hell they wanted when the changes hit the real game.
That certainly hasn't ever happened before...[/QUOTE]
Frankly, I want to see them shake things up a bit. I've not seen a heated debate on balance in a long while, I'm getting kind of antsy.
And check the Buffalo Steak Sandvich inheriting the Sandvich changes or not while you're in TF2Beta.
[QUOTE=ZombiPlastiClok;34424522]If it makes you feel better, man, I love the way the Family Business and Tomislav look. It was those items that got me really pumped for the über update.
And dont kick yourself for the anims. Wonder why Valve just didnt do it themselves[/QUOTE]
The concept for the weapons were elegant and kick ass, while the ones that got in-game are pretty bland
also, I think you quoted the wrong guy
Is it bad that I'm going to be happy to see less Sandvich Heavies?
[QUOTE=Zadrave;34425828]Is it bad that I'm going to be happy to see less Sandvich Heavies?[/QUOTE]
Actually, i'm happy about the nerf, I will use the family bussiness more from now on
The sandvich nerf sucks in some ways, but I like using the dalokah's bar anyway, so no biggie for me. Kinda sad about the Tomislav, but I think good players'll adapt to it
(Wouldn't mind seeing a new minigun in the future valve)
Full approval. The Sandvich nerf is clever, the Enforcer's been asking for a nerf for quite a while, and the Tomislav's always been a touch too useful. I forsee further tweaking on the latter two though.
[QUOTE=Mikolah;34421919]It is silent.[/QUOTE]It's pretty fun to sneak up on an enemy with the Tomislav an[b][i]NEEEW WEEEAAAAPON![/i][/b]
I don't think the enforcer nerf will do anything. There's something seriously wrong when I can take on pyros and other offensive classes head on and win and an inability to see the enemy's health won't really do anything to change that.
Personally, I'd like to see the enforcer hold less bullets or perhaps a larger spread. Although a bit far-fetched, an increased bullet vulnerability would possibly work as it would deter spies from going head on with other classes and instead promote stealthy strategy.
The Tomislav needs it's spin-up buff otherwise it's useless, plain and simple. Nothing that hasn't been said in the thread already.
Sandvich could go for a nerfed self-heal from a dropped sandvich or perhaps a sped up primary animation. It takes a bit too long for it to be useful.
[QUOTE=Untouch;34421698]--- January 27, 2012 ---
General:
Heavy
Sandvich
The heavy no longer gains health from a Sanvich they drop; It re-fills their Sanvich ammo[/QUOTE]
FINALLY! I've been waiting so long for this.
Now if only it would be added to the actual game.
Better tomislav stats:
30% faster spin up time
No-barrel spin up noise
Only one bullet fired per shot
[editline]28th January 2012[/editline]
Seriously: R.I.P tomislav + KGB.
For the Enforcer, I just think it should have increased rampup like the Scout, as opposed to a flat damage buff. That way, it's only more powerful up close.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34427649]
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/6b/Item_icon_Wrap_Assassin.png/100px-Item_icon_Wrap_Assassin.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
hey hey hey, you be quiet. the wrap assassin is great.
[QUOTE=Lolkork;34427649]
-pics-
Will Tomislav join this group of ridiculously underpowered or useless weapons?[/QUOTE]
I disagree with that list. A couple of those have a place (albeit small). Also, missing natascha.
I wish natascha was useful; it sounds and looks so nice.
The tomislav nerf is fine as long as they give a faster switch with the Family business.
Too bad we're talking about valve, that will never fix that shotgun.
I for one love the no seeing health attribute.
That's how we rolled pre-scout update. Plus, less annoying clusterfuck on my screen.
Good.
The tomislav nerfs.
Hm. I prefer the stock minigun anyway. Not much would change for me personally.
The Sandvich nerf.
It'll take me some getting used to, but i think this gives me a reason to see the glorious left-click again. I rarely see it anymore due to just right-clicking being a quicker, easier healing method.
The Enforcer nerfs.
[B]Thank you.[/B]
[QUOTE=mixshifter;34421879]No one EVER complained about the sandvich during its timespan of being in TF2. Because it's so gimmicky and people love it. But that doesn't change the fact it was extremely OP back when you were able to endlessly heal with it.[/QUOTE]
Well, those days used to be funny. I remember a Heavy standing on the last controlpoint on dustbowl (second stage) aund ONLY eating his sandvich. He healed so much, noone got on the point.
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