[QUOTE=t man;34437109]No
we all learned how to fight the sticky launcher years ago, it's called "close range"
And on air burst stickies:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ADBcJ.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I just tried to click that. -_-
[QUOTE=Psychopath12;34421763]This is actually a very good thing. The Sandvich being a free medium healthkit was really powerful and people have since used it as a crutch.
Just how many Heavies did you ever see rolling a different secondary (other than Buffalo Steak Sandvich) and was playing to actually win?[/QUOTE]
The problem is that Shotgun just sucks on Heavy. Heavy's minigun does more damage at ANY range than shotgun can muster. The only 'slight' upside to shotgun use is that you can stay mobile while shooting it. But that got thrown out the window when Heavy received his universal -25% spin up time buff. It's faster to spin-up the minigun and shoot than it is to switch to your shotgun and then shoot.
The problem with Heavy's non-sandvich unlocks is that there's no reason to use them. They all suck by comparison to the minigun, so there's no reason to use them. It's generally just a better idea to use Tomislav + GRU if you need mobility, rather than using a piss-weak shotgun that needs time to reload and only lets you move at base speed.
What Heavy needs instead is a different kind of secondary slot weapon that specializes in a range that Minigun does bad in, mid to long range. The same kind of deal happens with Pyro. His primary has limited range and his secondary is supposed to complement the range that can't be reached with his flamethrower.
this was kind of a bigger nerf to the buffalo sandvich than it was to the regular sandvich :x
I wonder if they'll nerf the axethinguisher soon
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;34438786]this was kind of a bigger nerf to the buffalo sandvich than it was to the regular sandvich :x[/QUOTE]
Keep it that way. Give it to dalokoh's bar, that would be interesting.
The enforcer is still the best revolver out there, even with this change.
Basically it's a direct upgrade from the stock revolver, since the malus isn't that bad
[QUOTE=pdecezon;34436486]ofc it's intended. They're crits aren't they? It also cancels out kritzkrieg.[/QUOTE]
Well, they're crits, true.
But so are backstabs. Should they be blocked out too?
I think it's bullshit that the Battalion's Backup blocks headshots.
It's a pretty useless weapon. It should definitely block headshots.
Wrangler needs a nerf
I like the idea of the dalokahs bar getting a nerf. I like using it quite a bit.
[QUOTE=Kegan;34444800]I like the idea of the dalokahs bar getting a nerf. I like using it quite a bit.[/QUOTE]
lol what?
Nerf the Dalokahs bar? Seriously?
Why does no one spell Dalokohs right ever
[QUOTE=Dr.Scrake;34445047]Why does no one spell Dalokohs right ever[/QUOTE]
Indeed, it is shokolad backwards, not shakolad
Ever heard of Chacolate?
I can't spell Dalokohs right so I just say Fishcake instead
[QUOTE=Kegan;34444800]I like the idea of the dalokahs bar getting a nerf. I like using it quite a bit.[/QUOTE]
What are you smoking, the Dalokohs Bar is horrible.
It needs a buff more than anything, at least have it so you could drop it and gain +50 health, not stacking though.
Hows this for a change to the Dalokohs' - When eaten, heals half of your max HP. When at full HP (and only when full) it will overheal you to 450 HP. This overheal does not decay until you are hit - even by a stray pistol shot. If you eat while overhealed, nothing will happen. The overhealing effect has a cooldown of half what the sandvichs' is, but this does not affect normal consumation, although the consuming taunt is slightly longer (at any time). For obvious reasons, this does not stack with a medic's overheal, but a medic can top up the overheal back to full before the cooldown, which reactivates the anti-decay effect unless you have been shot at in the last 30 seconds.
Or something like that.
[QUOTE=AlfieSR;34446529]Hows this for a change to the Dalokohs' - When eaten, heals half of your max HP. When at full HP (and only when full) it will overheal you to 450 HP. This overheal does not decay until you are hit - even by a stray pistol shot. If you eat while overhealed, nothing will happen. The overhealing effect has a cooldown of half what the sandvichs' is, but this does not affect normal consumation, although the consuming taunt is slightly longer (at any time). For obvious reasons, this does not stack with a medic's overheal, but a medic can top up the overheal back to full before the cooldown, which reactivates the anti-decay effect unless you have been shot at in the last 30 seconds.
Or something like that.[/QUOTE]
It's too confusing and bulky, good nerfs and buffs are simple. Ockham's Razor.
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;34444772]Wrangler needs a nerf[/QUOTE]
yeah def, it's like the universal "no more fun allowed" button. I might go so far as to say that wrangler engies are even less fun than heavies. the shield should block less damage and drop instantly as soon as the engie switches off of the wrangler but the sentry remains disabled for [i]x[/i] amount of time. it's an easy fix honestly, idk what's taking valve so long.
Hey, if I remember correctly the point of the Dalokohs Bar is to eat it before running into battle, since the +50 max HP is supposed to make you last longer. Obviously, it fails horribly because +50 HP does barely any difference.
So how about this idea: eating it doesn't heal you, it doesn't increase your max HP, but it regenerates your health by 6 HP every second, for 30 seconds. The drawback would be that it takes 40 seconds to regenerate instead of 30 seconds, and it cannot be regenerated by taking a health kit while at full health.
[QUOTE=Kegan;34444800]I like the idea of the dalokahs bar getting a nerf. I like using it quite a bit.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure this guy meant buff, guys. Chill.
[QUOTE=pdecezon;34446679]yeah def, it's like the universal "no more fun allowed" button. I might go so far as to say that wrangler engies are even less fun than heavies. the shield should block less damage and drop instantly as soon as the engie switches off of the wrangler but the sentry remains disabled for [i]x[/i] amount of time. it's an easy fix honestly, idk what's taking valve so long.[/QUOTE]
That engi becomes a sitting duck for assasins. No seriously, they get really annoying at long range, but that's all; they become FAR worse at 360º area denial, and to take down the Lv.3 sentry you just need to dispatch the 125 HP class that lurks nearby.
On a sidenote, what do you think of adding to the Smissmas WETA non-melee weapons the damage penalty against buildings the Soldier's have? And what about turning the Manmelter into a Laser gun, rather than the weird flaregun it is at the moment (as it, weak projectiles that penetrate players but cannot be reflected; like the Bison and the Pomson)?
-snip-
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;34447008]That engi becomes a sitting duck for assasins.[/QUOTE]
Scout: has to get the jump on you, if you see him you have the wrangler (w/ minor auto aim iirc) and a trust shotgun to take care of him with
Sniper: hide behind sentry
Spy: have a pyro spycheck w/ you or just employ a minimal amount of awareness
Hidding behind your sentry makes you unable to be aware of your surroundings. As always, teamworks beats said "OP" situation. All in all, the sentry can react and target nearby enemies faster than you. It's not the fault of the game than you got dominated by an engi with wrangler. Myself, I just kill them far more easily that way. Picking them from behind.
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;34447008]That engi becomes a sitting duck for assasins. No seriously, they get really annoying at long range, but that's all; they become FAR worse at 360º area denial, and to take down the Lv.3 sentry you just need to dispatch the 125 HP class that lurks nearby.[/QUOTE]
Good Engineers won't place their sentries in a place where they have to defend 360º or where he can be ambushed. The wrangler is OP because it replaces a weapon that doesn't do very much damage, with a weapon that grants the sentry three times as much health (effectively 648 instead of 216), and adds the capability to do damage at an infinite range with no fall-off damage. And worst of all, the shield stays there for a few seconds after the engineer having switched weapon, giving him time to repair the sentry to protect it from incoming damage.
A wrangled sentry can outlast an übered heavy concentrating all his minigun bullets on the sentry, and when the über has faded the sentry can kill the heavy even if he was overhealed to 450 and being healed until he died. The engineer simply has to repair his sentry when it's at low health. It's ridiculous because the sentry shouldn't be able to tank that much damage, especially not if all you have to give up for it is a pistol that doesn't do very much damage.
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;34447222]Hidding behind your sentry makes you unable to be aware of your surroundings.[/QUOTE]
no it doesn't.
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;34447222]As always, teamworks beats said "OP" situation.[/QUOTE]
it also enforces it.
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;34447222]It's not the fault of the game than you got dominated by an engi with wrangler. Myself, I just kill them far more easily that way. Picking them from behind.[/QUOTE]
the fact that you don't understand why it's broken tells me you're not worth arguing with.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_pJqlG5Y94&t=7m05s]this[/url] is why it's broken
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;34447222]Hidding behind your sentry makes you unable to be aware of your surroundings. As always, teamworks beats said "OP" situation. All in all, the sentry can react and target nearby enemies faster than you. It's not the fault of the game than you got dominated by an engi with wrangler. Myself, I just kill them far more easily that way. Picking them from behind.[/QUOTE]
What if both teams have teamwork?
[QUOTE=Joey JoJo;34438346]The problem is that Shotgun just sucks on Heavy. Heavy's minigun does more damage at ANY range than shotgun can muster. The only 'slight' upside to shotgun use is that you can stay mobile while shooting it. But that got thrown out the window when Heavy received his universal -25% spin up time buff. It's faster to spin-up the minigun and shoot than it is to switch to your shotgun and then shoot.
The problem with Heavy's non-sandvich unlocks is that there's no reason to use them. They all suck by comparison to the minigun, so there's no reason to use them. It's generally just a better idea to use Tomislav + GRU if you need mobility, rather than using a piss-weak shotgun that needs time to reload and only lets you move at base speed.
What Heavy needs instead is a different kind of secondary slot weapon that specializes in a range that Minigun does bad in, mid to long range. The same kind of deal happens with Pyro. His primary has limited range and his secondary is supposed to complement the range that can't be reached with his flamethrower.[/QUOTE]
Sigh. Yes, Minigun does more damage, that's the whole point of having a Minigun, but that doesn't mean the shotgun sucks because it deals less damage. The whole point of using the shotgun along side the Minigun is to give Heavy versatility and when I say that, I mean being able to shoot while mobile is NOT just a [i]slight[/i] upside. Being able to backpedal and dodge attacks while shooting saves you the damage you would be taking if you were practically immobile just spitting out Minigun bullets. You are an easier target to everything when you are revved, shotgun helps fix that. If you ask me, a competent Heavy should primarily keep out his shotgun and switch to his Minigun when he needs the extra firepower. Being able to shoot on command without revving up, even after the -25% revving speed buff if still pretty darn useful.
And you're suggesting that I use the Tomislav + Sandvich + GRU combo if I want mobility? Sorry, I don't like playing with handicaps. Tomislav [i]might[/i] be nerfed anyway. Besides, the default Minigun is way better for raw damage output than the Tomislav, and GRU is only useable if you have a pocket Medic, or if you waste your oh-so-useful Sandvich just getting to the front lines. Don't get me wrong, I like the Sandvich too, and use it from time to time, but you're glorifying it like everyone who doesn't use it is wrong. The shotgun is certainly not "piss weak" either.
Long range on Heavy? I can see problems with that already.
[b]tl;dr[/b]: Shotgun is still an amazing weapon, no matter how you compare it with the damage output of the Minigun. Not all Heavies want to use the Sandvich, and are most certainly not crutching themselves for doing so.
backpedaling and dodging at 77% speed isn't effective enough to warrant the inability to provide yourself or your medic buddy burst healing. it's more effective to swap to the GRU if you want to dodge or backpedal and toss yourself a sandvich if you need burst heali-
[QUOTE=GastricTank;34447538]And you're suggesting that I use the Tomislav + Sandvich + GRU combo if I want mobility? Sorry, I don't like playing with handicaps.[/QUOTE]
oh. you're one of those guys.
e: shotgun heavy is super fun btw, but I don't get why people insist that it's as viable as the sandvich.
The main reason I sometimes switch from Sandvich to shotgun is if there's snipers about. The minigun does not shake a sniper's view from mid to long range, and plenty of times I've headshotted a Heavy as a Sniper when he's shooting at me. The shotgun, however, will shake the sniper's aim at any range, so it really fucks with them if you're overhealed and they need to fully charge their shot and you nail em just before the shot and they have to charge all over again.
I think the Battalion's Backup needs a buff, honestly. Maybe make the activation faster, so you can nullify a kritz easier? Or just undo the nerf they did where they made you need to take more damage to have the rage bar filled. As it stands it's not that useful compared to the shotgun or buff banner.
I think the Tomislav should have a degreaser effect, where it makes you switch weapons faster, and allow the Heavy to switch during spin-down. Add that buff on top of the beta's stats now, and it makes Tomislav heavies more fearsome if they have the KGB or shotgun. They still suck directly against other Heavies and the gun doesn't deal as much damage, but it allows them to focus more on the shotgun, which is great for killing Scouts and helps the Heavy deal with other classes. The Heavy can charge forward with his shotgun to get into a good position to spin up his gun, so instead of just tanking the damage as he gets close he can instead fight back along the way until he gets close enough to rev his gun. He still has a slow spinup and doesn't do as much damage as a regular minigun, but it trades that for better positioning and quicker reaction. It also gives him a a chance to hurt a Pyro if he gets flamed and primed for an axstinguish (he's still pretty much doomed unless he gets a meatshot on the Pyro quickly)
Thoughts?
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