[QUOTE=CrazyBaconLegs;21673232]Wasn't the backburner returned to old flamethrower damage?
They're giving you a choice between versatility and power.[/QUOTE]
No, it actually does 96%ish, I'll go check the steam forums, they apparently pinned down how strong it was. But the backburner still isn't worth it, because now you cannot defend yourself(We're ignoring the shotgun and flaregun, becuase those do not actually PREVENT damage, sans a lucky flare hitting a rocket or something).
And the problem with this is, the fact that if you want to do some actual damage in close range, you HAVE to puff-and-sting, and no, there is no option other option on doing your intended role as close range specialist, barring situational fights with a demoman or soldier whom you reflect rocket, and even then if they survive they just pull out their melee and kill you.
Edit: and no, W+M1 isn't an argument, you are an idiot if you die to it, using fire isn't W+M1, if you press any key but W you are not W+M1ing.
They're encouraging Pyros to use M2, by buffing the AB. By buffing it so much, they needed to nerf another part of the weapon. They forgot that they could have made simple nerfs in the airblast itself while buffing another of it's attributes.
Anyway, I find your bitching useless. Everyone complained about Pyros not using the AB before, now they're doing it.
[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;21640462] People call the airblast a skill, when in reality it was mostly luck (close range) with some timing thrown in (long range), and it wan't that hard to time.[/QUOTE]
You have no idea of what you're talking about. Playing today after this new update, from at least 20 projectiles I tried airblasting, I succeeded in two or three. Seriously, it's just the same kind of bad luck you have when you get hit by a Sniper that was aiming for another target, that makes you think that it always happens with you, but we can't have an idea of how many shots Snipers have missed when trying to kill us.
Also, it is hard to time if you're lagging. I, for example, live in Brazil but regularly play on some american servers. There, not only my ping is higher, but it also changes a lot, from 140 to 170, for example. You can't time airblasts with a ping like that.
The Pyro is the very reason I wish the Demo could equip a shotgun.
[QUOTE=Keychain;21685808]The Pyro is the very reason I wish the Demo could equip a shotgun.[/QUOTE]
lmao are you retarded.
In a demovpyro fight you might reflect 2 grenades or a sticky.
Regardless, stickies can still be air detonated the moment you reflect them, so it doesn't matter if you have the most amazing motherfucking sticky reflect of all time, the demo can still pop it the same time you click.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;21685804]You have no idea of what you're talking about. Playing today after this new update, from at least 20 projectiles I tried airblasting, I succeeded in two or three. Seriously, it's just the same kind of bad luck you have when you get hit by a Sniper that was aiming for another target, that makes you think that it always happens with you, but we can't have an idea of how many shots Snipers have missed when trying to kill us.[/quote]
That's because you honestly suck at airblasting.
[quote]Also, it is hard to time if you're lagging. I, for example, live in Brazil but regularly play on some american servers. There, not only my ping is higher, but it also changes a lot, from 140 to 170, for example. You can't time airblasts with a ping like that.[/QUOTE]
Great argument: my situation is not the optimal performance that I should be playing at, thereby handicapping myself. Since I'm handicapped, certain aspects of the game is harder for me. Oh qq, it's my own fault that it's so hard, please nerf this aspect of the game, sob sob.
I wish I fought against normal pyros. This one guy I played against today kept beating my ass with insanely accurate flare gun shots.
Flame, airblast into air, immediately flare. Jumping in the air, bam, on fire. So much rage on my part. But that's my fault for encountering him.
[QUOTE=thefrog;21642136]:smug:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oHV0QWmuDs[/media][/QUOTE]
So instead of killing him and wasting ~20 seconds of his time respawning you let him go back to the respawn room, grab ammo+health and go back to the battlements to continue his minigunning after only a couple of seconds wasted.
very useful
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;21685804]They're encouraging Pyros to use M2, by buffing the AB. By buffing it so much, they needed to nerf another part of the weapon. They forgot that they could have made simple nerfs in the airblast itself while buffing another of it's attributes.
Anyway, I find your bitching useless. Everyone complained about Pyros not using the AB before, now they're doing it. [/quote]
People complained about pyros airblasting enough. Valve did the RIGHT thing and buffed it, but buffed it and make it a less skilled thing to do with the refire delay shortened. The minicrit damage and lower cost were needed.
Also, I'm sick of people calling this bitching when I'm putting forward my opinion in this manner, but by now I've realised some people just don't get it.
[quote] You have no idea of what you're talking about. Playing today after this new update, from at least 20 projectiles I tried airblasting, I succeeded in two or three. Seriously, it's just the same kind of bad luck you have when you get hit by a Sniper that was aiming for another target, that makes you think that it always happens with you, but we can't have an idea of how many shots Snipers have missed when trying to kill us.[/quote]
Airblasting is mostly anticipation. At close range, you can't time an airblast, so you predict when he's going to fire, putting airblasting into the realms of luck and a small amount of knowledge of when a soldier/ demo/ sniper will fire. With the update, even less skill is requires- miss? Well who cares, you can pull another almost instantly!
[quote]Also, it is hard to time if you're lagging... You can't time airblasts with a ping like that.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://moderateinthemiddle.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/no-shit-sherlock.jpg[/img]
For anyone wondering about the logic of the people saying the BackBurner now is less powerful than before even though the latest update states that Valve gave it 20% more damage.
Let's say BackBurner's original value was 100.
Valve then made the BackBurner only do 80% of it's original value.
100 x 0.8.
100 x 0.8 = 80
With the recent update Valve took the new value, and multiplied it by 20%.
20% of 80 = 80 x 0.2
80 x 0.2 = 16
Here's how it went wrong.
80 + (0.2 x 80) = 96.
Here's why Valve and many other people thought it was returned to normal:
100 - 20 = 80
80 + 20 = 100
People confuse the way percentage works.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;21648048]That is an utterly terrible idea.[/QUOTE]
Why so? It supports pyro being what originally intended: lethal at close range and in ambushes but vulnerable head on or when ambushed.
[editline]04:18PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;21685052]
It took about 5 seconds of solid crit flames to kill one soldier at the end of the round.
What the fuck is this shit.[/QUOTE]
Lagged probably. Crit flames are still pretty lethal.
Otherwise you're right, flamethrower is especially useless against sentries and without backburner there's barely anything the pyro can do about them.
(The Homewrecker doesn't help)
[QUOTE=Fire and Ice;21690106]So instead of killing him and wasting ~20 seconds of his time respawning you let him go back to the respawn room, grab ammo+health and go back to the battlements to continue his minigunning after only a couple of seconds wasted.
very useful[/QUOTE]
Except you can't grab health in an enemy spawn.
Pyros are still easy to kill.
[QUOTE=KStyleAzure;21685928]That's because you honestly suck at airblasting.[/QUOTE]
No :razz:
Try airblasting with a 200 ping. In a server here, I can actually airblast a lot more and predict when the enemy is going to fire. You know, in an american server, when I think he'll fire, he already did, 1 second ago.
[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;21690342]People complained about pyros airblasting enough. Valve did the RIGHT thing and buffed it, but buffed it and make it a less skilled thing to do with the refire delay shortened. The minicrit damage and lower cost were needed.[/quote]
Well that's what I said there, or at least what I wanted to
[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;21690342]Also, I'm sick of people calling this bitching when I'm putting forward my opinion in this manner, but by now I've realised some people just don't get it.[/quote]
No, I know what you mean, mate. You just make it look so serious that by reading your posts I can imagine you sitting 24/7 in front of the computer watching this thread. Ya know, you already gave your opinion, that's it.
[QUOTE=Overseer No. 2;21690342]Airblasting is mostly anticipation. At close range, you can't time an airblast, so you predict when he's going to fire, putting airblasting into the realms of luck and a small amount of knowledge of when a soldier/ demo/ sniper will fire. With the update, even less skill is requires- miss? [/quote] That's what I said, actually. That and how your bad luck makes it look like you [b]always[/b] get hit.
I guess, I only agree with what you said about the delay between airblasts. That could have been kept the way it was.
[editline]lololol[/editline]
Damn I sound so serious in this post, I should jump off a cliff.
While I agree the airblast speed up was too dramatic, a slight speed up would still be nice, perhaps at soldier rocket fire speed, just so if you actually know how to airblast, you don't have to back away to defend yourself.
I personally, even while extinguishing teammates and reflecting projectiles(or failing to) never ran out of ammo. I know where all the boxes are, and dispensers are my friends.
Maybe reducing the range at which airblast will affect enemies without effecting the range at which it affects projectiles would be a suitable nerf.
The flamethrower damage thing is retarded, I can't even play pyro right now.
Circle-strafing heavies doesn't even work anymore, and afterburn is a joke.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;21691653]No :razz:
Try airblasting with a 200 ping. In a server here, I can actually airblast a lot more and predict when the enemy is going to fire. You know, in an american server, when I think he'll fire, he already did, 1 second ago.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=KStyleAzure;21685928]Great argument: my situation is not the optimal performance that I should be playing at, thereby handicapping myself. Since I'm handicapped, certain aspects of the game is harder for me. Oh qq, it's my own fault that it's so hard, please nerf this aspect of the game, sob sob.[/QUOTE]
I don't care what they do with the game. I trust them enough that they will do the right thing.
-schnip-
I'm not sure if I really want to use the Backburner now. I just feel so vulnerable now that I don't have the airblast. Once of my central strategies is airblasting the people away as I retreat.
You're not supposed to retreat with the Backburner! You have to set the whole opposing team on fire, die and let the afterburn take care of OH WAIT RIGHT no afterburn anymore.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;21696345]I'm not sure if I really want to use the Backburner now. I just feel so vulnerable now that I don't have the airblast. Once of my central strategies is airblasting the people away as I retreat.[/QUOTE]
I've changed to the Backburner now the Flamethrower has been tweaked and the Backburner feels alot nicer. The Flamethrower now isn't really made for ambushing and more teamplay and support and since I enjoy ambushing the Backburner is there crying to be used.
Though there are times where I have though "If only I had the airblast" but also times with the new Flamethrower where I've thought "If only I did more damage", the latter happened more to me. Thus Backburner time.
[QUOTE=ShiftySwifty;21696683]I've changed to the Backburner now the Flamethrower has been tweaked and the Backburner feels alot nicer. The Flamethrower now isn't really made for ambushing and more teamplay and support and since I enjoy ambushing the Backburner is there crying to be used.
Though there are times where I have though "If only I had the airblast" but also times with the new Flamethrower where I've thought "If only I did more damage", the latter happened more to me. Thus Backburner time.[/QUOTE]
Now not meaning to be rude but, I just don't get how people are saying the BB is 'nicer' or 'better for ambushing/whatever' when pre-update it was classified as useless and now with this patch it was nerfed (by 4%)and is said to be an improvement. Personally, the only way I see it as 'better' is that the FT got it's damage nerfed to the point that the BB is now viable. That aint right.
[QUOTE=BallisticsDummy;21698547]Now not meaning to be rude but, I just don't get how people are saying the BB is 'nicer' or 'better for ambushing/whatever' when pre-update it was classified as useless and now with this patch it was nerfed (by 4%)and is said to be an improvement. Personally, the only way I see it as 'better' is that the FT got it's damage nerfed to the point that the BB is now viable. That aint right.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget the afterburn change. It's still the same BB it was before, but weaker. And the airblast is stronger than ever.
[QUOTE=NOT King Shit;21698767]Don't forget the afterburn change. It's still the same BB it was before, but weaker. And the airblast is stronger than ever.[/QUOTE]
Whoops. Can't forget about that part either.
Fire sucks now.
Stop complaining.
Valve changes pyro to sort out w+m1 issues people complain about ---->>> People start complaining about w+m2 pyros --->>> Valve changes pyro to sort out w+m2 ---->>> People start complaining about w+m1 pyros again.
Seriously when does it end. People are always going to complain about something just shut up and play the game that's what it's there for.
[QUOTE=BallisticsDummy;21698547]Now not meaning to be rude but, I just don't get how people are saying the BB is 'nicer' or 'better for ambushing/whatever' when pre-update it was classified as useless and now with this patch it was nerfed (by 4%)and is said to be an improvement. Personally, the only way I see it as 'better' is that the FT got it's damage nerfed to the point that the BB is now viable. That aint right.[/QUOTE]
Probably because I used the normal flamethrower for so long, it felt nice to have a change and play Pyro like it used to be played.
[QUOTE=Zaratustra;21696510]You're not supposed to retreat with the Backburner! You have to set the whole opposing team on fire, die and let the afterburn take care of OH WAIT RIGHT no afterburn anymore.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't the afterburn nerf only applied to the regular flamethrower?
[QUOTE=KStyleAzure;21704682]Wasn't the afterburn nerf only applied to the regular flamethrower?[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately the only thing not affected was the flare gun.
[QUOTE=CrazyBaconLegs;21706260]Unfortunately the only thing not affected was the flare gun.[/QUOTE]
Didn't they patch it so it wouldn't be effected or something? I saw some patchnotes on the flaregun.
BB should have classic afterburn. If they basically make the BB the pre-nerf/buff FT with crit from behind, then all the W+M1ers would go to that, and die when they can't airblast like they should.
Granted, W+M2ers are just so fucking annoying since you can't do shit about them when they sneak up, but at least they don't kill you as quickly.(Although the furthest end of the flame does about the same amount of damage still due to percentages and rounding numbers.)
[QUOTE=KStyleAzure;21692788]Great argument: my situation is not the optimal performance that I should be playing at, thereby handicapping myself. Since I'm handicapped, certain aspects of the game is harder for me. Oh qq, it's my own fault that it's so hard, please nerf this aspect of the game, sob sob.[/QUOTE]
Well but there you misunderstood how 'my ping is high' is an argument opposing to 'you suck at airblasting' , and not a reason why the airblast should be changed, mate.
[QUOTE=ThndrShk2k;21707424]Didn't they patch it so it wouldn't be effected or something? I saw some patchnotes on the flaregun.
BB should have classic afterburn. If they basically make the BB the pre-nerf/buff FT with crit from behind, then all the W+M1ers would go to that, and die when they can't airblast like they should.
Granted, W+M2ers are just so fucking annoying since you can't do shit about them when they sneak up, but at least they don't kill you as quickly.(Although the furthest end of the flame does about the same amount of damage still due to percentages and rounding numbers.)[/QUOTE]
I agree on giving the Back-Burner the pre-nerf afterburn. Considering how powerful the Air-Blast is these days it'd give a slightly better incentive to use it over the regular Flamethrower, as I've had many a motherfucker run off and survive an after-burn after this new patch only to tell me "Oh after-burn nerf, you left me with 1HP!" :/
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