I don't think hats should have been implemented in the first place. - Games

[QUOTE=Kalinium;17136595]Reread all my posts. I'm not complaining about anything Valve has done. I'm just pointing out that you can't blame the community for anything. I've never actually said that the hats have ruined the game. Personally, I couldn't really give two shits about the hats.[/QUOTE] Of course you can blame the sodding community. This is as dumb as the people that blame Valve for them using the idler.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136620]Of course you can blame the sodding community. This is as dumb as the people that blame Valve for them using the idler.[/QUOTE] If they release stuff people don't like, it's their fault. It's not the community's job to like what's released, it's Valve's job to work out what the community want and to release that. And if they don't, it's the community's job to let Valve know.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136620]Of course you can blame the sodding community. This is as dumb as the people that blame Valve for them using the idler.[/QUOTE] I used the idler once when it got released, and now people are bitching at me calling me a cheater in game. I blame VALVE for making these people bitch at me, and for getting me banned from two of my favorite servers, since I never benefitted from using the idler, or used it with the intent of gaining anything.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136554]Didn't rate you once.[/QUOTE] Was just trying to get some of the people who are ninja rating both of us to actually post something constructive.

[QUOTE=KarlHeinrichMarx;17136670]I used the idler once when it got released, and now people are bitching at me calling me a cheater in game. I blame VALVE for making these people bitch at me, and for getting me banned from two of my favorite servers, since I never benefitted from using the idler, or used it with the intent of gaining anything.[/QUOTE] You didn't use the idler with the intent of gaining anything? Bollocks to that. And when swears at you in a store, do you blame the store or the person. [editline]01:06PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kalinium;17136646]If they release stuff people don't like, it's their fault. It's not the community's job to like what's released, it's Valve's job to work out what the community want and to release that. And if they don't, it's the community's job to let Valve know.[/QUOTE] It also isn't Valve's job to police the community. That's the community's job. Don't like someone on your server? You ban them or find a new server, you don't go running to Valve about how someone said bad things to you because you don't have a shiny hat.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136685]And when swears at you in a store, do you blame the store or the person.[/QUOTE] If the store owner calls you a thief and everyone else bitches at you about it you blame the store. [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136685]It also isn't Valve's job to police the community. That's the community's job. Don't like someone on your server? You ban them or find a new server, you don't go running to Valve about how someone said bad things to you because you don't have a shiny hat.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you're driving at.

[QUOTE=Kalinium;17136737]If the store owner calls you a thief and everyone else bitches at you about it you blame the store. I'm not sure what you're driving at.[/QUOTE] Valve labelled you as such because you voluntarily used the idle program. This is like a shop owner calling you a thief...because you just stole something. And what I'm saying is, Valve doesn't have to, and doesn't even have the means to control what the community thinks. If the community thinks you're a filthy cheat, Valve saying "BE NICE GUYS" won't do jack. Look at the pyro. Most people think, "LOL WM1 NO SKILL". Valve added depth through the airblast, gave the pyro weapons like the flaregun and the axtinguisher to try and add a sort of skill, what did that change? Well, now quite a few people use the old "burn, airblast, axe" technique, but other than that LOL WM1 NO SKILL They won't change what the community thinks.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136774]Valve labelled you as such because you voluntarily used the idle program. This is like a shop owner calling you a thief...because you just stole something. [/QUOTE] Not really. It's more like a shop owner calling you a thief because he just now decided that your currency, which he used to accept, is invalid.

[QUOTE=NotPigeon;17136811]Not really. It's more like a shop owner calling you a thief because he just now decided that your currency, which he used to accept, is invalid.[/QUOTE] or if a shop owner called you a thief because you started to use a currency that you [url=http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/]signed an agreement never to use as long as you shopped there[/url]

I think this should be posted. [media]http://www.elisanet.fi/masokisti/tf2hats_sniff4chn.png[/media] (right click and select view image for full size)

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136774]Valve labelled you as such because you voluntarily used the idle program. This is like a shop owner calling you a thief...because you just stole something.[/QUOTE] But the problem with calling idling cheating is that it simply wasn't cheating. A cheat is something that gives you an unfair advantage over players who don't. Valve don't care about idling in idle servers, and all the idle programme did was enable people to do that with less resources being used in the process. It didn't give players a better drop rate than someone who was playing, and even if it did drop it wasn't an unfair advantage. [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136774]And what I'm saying is, Valve doesn't have to, and doesn't even have the means to control what the community thinks.[/QUOTE] But the point is that they can. Valve doesn't just make random bits of content and launch them. A huge portion of their job is dedicated to working out and testing community reactions. That's why they playtest, that's why they try out more than one thing before they release it. They're finding the things that will fit best with the community. [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136774]If the community thinks you're a filthy cheat, Valve saying "BE NICE GUYS" won't do jack.[/QUOTE] Before the update, nobody cared about idlers. [editline]01:21PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136774]Look at the pyro. Most people think, "LOL WM1 NO SKILL". Valve added depth through the airblast, gave the pyro weapons like the flaregun and the axtinguisher to try and add a sort of skill, what did that change? Well, now quite a few people use the old "burn, airblast, axe" technique, but other than that LOL WM1 NO SKILL They won't change what the community thinks.[/QUOTE] The whole "skill" thing is completely invalid because every class is piss easy to play. Fair point, though.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136824]or if a shop owner called you a thief because you started to use a currency that you [url=http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/]signed an agreement never to use as long as you shopped there[/url][/QUOTE] Except that there was never really any sort of consensus as to whether or not the agreement actually meant you couldn't use that currency and even now the only people saying so are the ones who want to feel superior over those who didn't bother exchanging their money.

[QUOTE=Kalinium;17136834]But the problem with calling idling cheating is that it simply wasn't cheating. A cheat is something that gives you an unfair advantage over players who don't. Valve don't care about idling in idle servers, and all the idle programme did was enable people to do that with less resources being used in the process. It didn't give players a better drop rate than someone who was playing, and even if it did drop it wasn't an unfair advantage. But the point is that they can. Valve doesn't just make random bits of content and launch them. A huge portion of their job is dedicated to working out and testing community reactions. That's why they playtest, that's why they try out more than one thing before they release it. They're finding the things that will fit best with the community. Before the update, nobody cared about idlers.[/QUOTE] Who says Valve don't care about people idling in servers? They probably do since they enabled a default kick after 5 minutes doing nothing thing. The idle program allowed you to gain hats and weapons from TF2, without running TF2. Saying it's anything other than that is bullshit, and doing that, is bullshit. They playtest for functionality, and yes, playtesting allows for balance in the game etc. hats have no functionality, they are cosmetic. Valve cannot playtest a hat. and I [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=16739416&postcount=3]beg[/url] [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=16739453&postcount=8]to[/url] [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=16739972&postcount=17]differ[/url] [editline]01:26PM[/editline] [QUOTE=NotPigeon;17136884]Except that there was never really any sort of consensus as to whether or not the agreement actually meant you couldn't use that currency and even now the only people saying so are the ones who want to feel superior over those who didn't bother exchanging their money.[/QUOTE] What do you mean no consensus? It's fucking clear as day. Utility programs that emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Valve in any network feature of the Steam Software, are a no-no. There doesn't need to be a consensus, that's what the EULA is there for. It's so there is none of this "WELL I DON'T THINK THIS IS ETC", it sets it out. Didn't bother? I knew about the idle program, I knew about the achievement unlocker. Did I use them? No. Because I wanted to play to earn my shit, and running third party programs that influence steam is in no way a good idea.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136685]You didn't use the idler with the intent of gaining anything? Bollocks to that.[/QUOTE] Yea that's right buddy. When it got released I wanted to see what all these kids were screaming about so I took a look. I don't play that much TF2. I don't give a fuck about hats. It still pisses me off that VALVE now sees me as a cheater when I did nothing wrong. At least I didn't get VAC banned.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136894]and I [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=16739416&postcount=3]beg[/url] [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=16739453&postcount=8]to[/url] [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=16739972&postcount=17]differ[/url][/QUOTE] Facepunch is not even close to being a tiny bit representative of the TF2 community, in any way. [editline]01:41PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;17136894]They playtest for functionality, and yes, playtesting allows for balance in the game etc. hats have no functionality, they are cosmetic. Valve cannot playtest a hat.[/QUOTE] I just can't get over the fact you really think Valve don't have to consider what the community think about their updates.

[QUOTE=Kalinium;17137037]Facepunch is not even close to being a tiny bit representative of the TF2 community, in any way. [editline]01:41PM[/editline] I just can't get over the fact you really think Valve don't have to consider what the community think about their updates.[/QUOTE] [quote=Kalinium]Before the update, nobody cared about idlers.[/quote] nobody. Well, clearly people did. And that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying sure Valve have to consider the community on balance issues and stuff that actually effects the game, but on extra stuff, I think not. Also, you must remember that the idlers are very much in the minority. So the community is probably in favour of the update if you asked everyone.

The hats makes good targets.

[QUOTE=MagneticLobster;17131318]They add nothing to gameplay, and people complain about them MORE than the actual weapons Valve releases. Ultra rare cosmetic items have no place in a first person shooter that should be about teamwork, not about showing off that the random number gods favored you.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=technicsix;17131337]hat's caused tension between everyone.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=A big fat ass;17131595]I like the hats, but I'd have to agree with OP. They're pretty useless gameplay wise, and they're just messing with people.[/QUOTE] All of this. Even though it's a nice touch, and it really shows that Valve works hard to put personality into their characters, it's just really dividing the tf2 community.

From my experience, hats don't usually cause as much player v. player conflict in game as much as they cause whining (i.e. "I want a hat!! D:"). I've seen players compliment one another about their hats. For example, "Hey, nice engi hat." Halos, on the other hand, are a completely different matter.

have any of you played Battlefield Heroes? those custom outfits are fucking annoying it just seems like a total gimick to raise money. VALVE just didnt know what the hell they were doing with hats since they couldnt gain anything from it. only more work and we didnt intend in the first place. that may have not made sense but to me we never thought we would get hats and I personaly dont like custom characters in FPS games

[QUOTE=Mr_Sun;17143947]have any of you played Battlefield Heroes? those custom outfits are fucking annoying it just seems like a total gimick to raise money. VALVE just didnt know what the hell they were doing with hats since they couldnt gain anything from it. only more work and we didnt intend in the first place. that may have not made sense but to me we never thought we would get hats and I personaly dont like custom characters in FPS games[/QUOTE] I'm fine with the basic idea of hats. They make the characters a little more distinct and they look cool. I don't really agree with the scarcity concept, but I can understand the idea behind it. I don't really like customized characters in class-based shooters either. It's important to be able to recognize what someone's class is just by looking at them. However, the hats are relatively small details and they don't make the characters any less distinct, so there really isn't a problem with them.

Hats are great and all, but it's turned the community fucking nuts. I wish they'd never been implemented.

Hats have caused a monstrous knock-on effect which is snowballing by the minute. Valve implement hats -> Community gets pissy at drop rate, Drunken F00l invents the idler -> Valve get pissy, idler cull begins -> Idlers get pissy, get angry at the non-idlers -> Non idlers get pissy, get angry at the idlers, rinse and repeat last 2 steps.

Yeah, I liked it when it didn't feel competitive to have the biggest e-peen by getting more hats. Everyone was perfectly equal in TF2, which is what made it great. Valve really has been going down the wrong paths for a lot of things recently...

the hats are overpowered

[quote=cloak raider;17136894] didn't bother? I knew about the idle program, i knew about the achievement unlocker. Did i use them? No. Because i wanted to play to earn my shit, and running third party programs that influence steam is in no way a good idea.[/quote] [b]giga agreement[/b] Simply because some players refused to idle doesn't mean they didn't want one just as bad or was to 'noob' to either operate it,here about it, or even know what it is. What it does mean is I new valve had a train...a train with no tracks and it was merely a matter of when it was going straight up your ass

OP [B]hat[/b]e the hats because he doesn't have any!

Any hat should be wearable by any class imo.

It'd be perfectly fine if people didn't brag/bitch about them.

[QUOTE=MedicmanV2;17131550]omg valv shudnt hav implemented a purely aesthetic item dat has no effect on gameplay cuz itz roonin TF2!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE] It is. People are bitching about halos and shit now.