Where's the Natascha Nerf? - Games

you know theres a problem when the weapon designed to stop people from running away is imposble to fight head on. i wish they would make it so you can go towards the heavy but can't get away him.

[QUOTE=Pachengo;25462907]Natascha is fine. shovel needs a buff[/QUOTE] Why does everyone think the only melee upgrade is the Equalizer? The ubersaw, vita-saw, KGB, GRU, southern hospitality, shiv, bushwacka, axtinguisher, powerjack, and homewrecker all give you additional abilities and reasons to use them with no real drawbacks.

[QUOTE=t man;25465478]Why does everyone think the only melee upgrade is the Equalizer? The ubersaw, vita-saw, KGB, GRU, southern hospitality, shiv, bushwacka, axtinguisher, powerjack, and homewrecker all give you additional abilities and reasons to use them with no real drawbacks.[/QUOTE] all of those listed (save for the powerjack, possibly) have drawbacks which prevent them from being straight upgrades

:10bux: says OP uses Natascha

How come I gonna stop some big mean ol' heavy destroyin me mah game? The answer... is a gun... and of that don't work... change class. I think damage should be lowed to 50% of Sasha's damage capabilities, that way you have more chance of surviving if you try to make an escape, reducing Natascha's OP-ness.

Natascha isn't actually OP, it's just annoying as hell when you're on the recieving end and it doesn't look like it does anything when you're using it but it does it's job. It's just a fuck-annoying weapon, that's all.

I'm pretty sure that the Natasha tweak will come with the next major update, along with the Heavy Polycount Pack.

There is nothing wrong with Natasha... The game is perfectly balanced right now.

Snipers should also kill an enemy in close combat, just as fast as a Heavy. If not, the game is unbalanced :saddowns: /OP.

[QUOTE=Blueridge;25462479]its a complete upgrade weapons in TF2 are supposed to have their ups and downs; a new item should make you think if it's best to use it now or wait for a better situation aka kritzkreig[/QUOTE] While a bit off topic... The Equalizer essentially says "hey, heres more power, but you die quicker". Countering an equalizer soldier that's at low hp is very easy. Just shoot the motherfucker. Equalizer also has disadvantages that make it situational too. Like the 'not being able to be healed' part. That makes it bad for ubers when you are a soldier who likes to cause as much damage (4 rockets, then 6 shotgun shells) as possible before an uber ends. If you waited to reload, you would be wasting the uber. So what do you do? Switch to your melee, end the uber, get killed.

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;25462846]This is exactly the reason Natascha is overpowered. It's got all the upsides of Sasha, removes several tactics that you can use to counter the Heavy without implementing new ones and in general is ridiculously unfun to play against.[/QUOTE] Huge disagree, tactics like popping out and firing a shot, not to mention Snipers, still work. The only thing that DOESN'T still work (very well) is hopping around him as a Scout.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;25460212]Seriously, Valve said Natascha would get nerfed with the Polycount Update, but WHERE THE FUCK is it? I can't paly any class porperly without getting annoyed/killed by that dumbfuck of a weapon. I used to like Spy with the Y.E.R, but damn, with a team of 8 players where 3 use Fagtascha, I just can't get a kill. Scout is impossible, too. Also Pyro, Demoman, Medic. I want the nerf as soon as possible.[/QUOTE] And this is precisely why I'm naming my Natascha "Dispenser of Delicious Tears". Natascha is more useful as a defensive weapon. Reason being is that on offense, a team will generally have faster classes like Scouts, Pyros, and even Demomen (Demos aren't that fast but sticky-jumping alleviates this setback somewhat). It's these kinds of rushes where Natascha really shines, as Scouts and Pyros can no longer circle-strafe as effectively and have to resort to other tactics (Sandman or Flaregun, or more appropriately ambushing with FaN/Scattergun and the light-puff-sting tactic). Rushing a Heavy head-on was always a dumb idea and a bit of a gamble, but against a Natascha Heavy it's now suicide, so the obvious solution is to not rush him head-on. The best way to counter Natascha Heavies is the same as it's always been: Keep your distance. Both miniguns are lethal at point-blank, and nearly lethal at medium range. Difference is that at longer ranges, you're not getting hit with as many Natascha rounds as you would at closer ranges, but you're taking less damage compared to what Sasha can dish-out, the only difference is you're being slowed down. This makes you vulnerable to other classes such as Snipers, Spies, Pyros, etc., and the best way to counter this is to hope that your team-mates can likewise detect and exploit the universal weakness of the Heavy: Tunnel-vision. Often times unless you're within the Heavy's field-of-view, he's completely oblivious to you, or the target he's currently engaging is considered to be a higher priority than you. Either way, unless you're a pants-on-head retard and get caught in the cross-fire, Natascha Heavies are just as vulnerable as any other.

Hello mediocre mercenary Problems with a heavy using natascha? have you tried demoman,soldier,scout and pyro? I got a solution for you! A)Go Spy,backstab heavy B)Go Sniper,headshot him C)Go heavy,equip sasha and call a medic

'She' really isn't that overpowered. I've always thought the idea behind TF2 was if your current strategy isn't working, then change it. Each class now has multiple different ways to be played; some have even more. I would think it would be easy to adapt your strategy to kill a Natascha-wielding Heavy.

i'm totally renaming my natascha "The Longstop" when i get a tag

[QUOTE=elitehakor v2;25461424]Gonna rename mine "Stalin" when i get my nametag.[/QUOTE] Stalin your speed.

Natascha is only whined about because it's a bitch to play against. To be honest, the user is frankly dumb. The regular minigun is the best primary for heavy.

How to make a rant on the Natasha: Step 1: Play Team Fortress 2 with an average 'Heavy' user. He uses Natasha, you are a scout. He begins to get a domination on you. Step 2: You want that domination gone, so you try a few times to kill the Heavy, and he slows you down so you cannot kill him as scout. Step 3: You try a different class, and you are still getting dominated. Step 4: Come whine on FP about how you got dominated by a Natasha. If anything, the Natasha is not over powered, but under powered. So what if the Heavy can slow a Scout down? You just need to avoid the heavy if you're a scout. + I don't see how it is overpowered against medic, demoman, and pyro.

Milk + Shortstop = Even if you both stand perfectly still, you can outdamage the Heavy.

only people that complain about natascha are clan faggots or 12 year old SPUF kiddies that get mad because they try to kill a heavy as a scout or some other class that is weak to its -25% movement attribute. You're supposeed to avoid heavies as Scout if they are using Natascha and really only Spies, other heavies (if using normal minigun) + Medic, soldier, demoman, and sentries should ever go against a natascha weilding heavy but they are idiots that don't know to play the game and because of it they bitch and complain about it such as OP.

[QUOTE=NeoDement;25495989]Milk + Shortstop = Even if you both stand perfectly still, you can outdamage the Heavy.[/QUOTE] You can't outdamage a minigun at point blank range. iirc, the regular minigun does about 5-7 damage at a far enough range, and about 15-17 at point blank. Natascha is about 3-4, then progresses to about 12-14 at point blank. Both miniguns shoot about 5-6 bullets per ammo spent, so that'd be about 30+ damage at point blank with both targets standing still with a natascha in 2 or so seconds. Shortstop carries 4 bullets but has a slowdown (virtually useless), so imo it's a downgrade, but people use it because it's pretty cool looking, and it's new. Each shot (If it's a perfect meatshot) does about 47-60 damage, so with a clip of 4, you're doing about 204 damage per clip. Milk recovers 75% of the damage and turns it into health, so 204 by 75% is 153. If the battle is 10 seconds, the statistics would be something like: Heavy: 340 damage for the price of about 56 bullets. Scout: about 408, with factoring in the time to reload while taking constant fire from the minigun would be about a 1.5-1.8 second delay between the 204 damage of the clip. Heavy has killed scout faster, due to his ability of constant rate of fire and high health. It would be about 4-6 seconds for the scout to die, about the same time with a sandman. Scout has done about 285 damage in his life, not killing the heavy. 285 over 75% is 215. So it would take about 3 more seconds, but still, scout is dead, not big surprise. (Conditions are based on a test solely, not actual gameplay. Point blank, perfect meatshots, and non-movement are all uncommon in-game, so the test may be slightly off.)

While I will agree that the Natty doesn't need to cause slowdown at longer ranges. I feel that it's perfect at close to mid range. It's got a good tradeoff where it prevents faster classes from simply circling around you and leaving you helpless (God help you if your facing a decent scout with Sasha and either one of you is lagging, you will not hit him, ever.) but lack of damage means that Soldiers and Sasha Heavies will have an edge against you.

[QUOTE=Ian;25496376]285 over 75% is 215. So it would take about 3 more seconds, but still, scout is dead, not big surprise.[/QUOTE] You're counting on the Scout standing still, where he will NEVER be standing still. If there's a doorway or corner, you're fucked as the Heavy.

-snippy snip-

[QUOTE=Ekalektik_1;25495723]'She' really isn't that overpowered. I've always thought the idea behind TF2 was if your current strategy isn't working, then change it. Each class now has multiple different ways to be played; some have even more. I would think it would be easy to adapt your strategy to kill a Natascha-wielding Heavy.[/QUOTE] I've already explained why this isn't the case: [quote]The advantages you can get against Sasha (use of cover, corners, being evasive) don't work against Natascha because you just can't move when under fire from it. You're forced to stay and fight and it's a fight only a Sasha heavy can win because no other class has the health or damage output that will best a Natascha heavy.[/quote] Also, I know you guys love the game but you're just not being realistic if you think it's totally perfect; Even Robin has admitted that it's not, and I think a lot of you need to take a more open approach when discussing balance or other changes. I'd like to see Natascha changed because I want what's best for the game, not because I got dominated by it and have some personal vendetta against it.

-snip I'm stupid-

I still say that Natascha isn't overpowered, but the Heavy in general is just too fast to be fair. He has move speed and rev up speed which lets him quickly react and chase around corners with ease. Natascha had no problem after it's buff until they introduced the new Heavy buffs.

No I like my Natasha when dem crazy backburner pyros try to rush me on the bridge on 2fort, dem crazy backburner pyros :ohdear: [editline]19th October 2010[/editline] How to kill a Natascha heavy: Jump and shoot like crazy

[QUOTE=XxLiquidxX;25495941] + I don't see how it is overpowered against medic, demoman, and pyro.[/QUOTE] Medic: Heavy slows down a Medic close to becoming fully charged, Medic is now slow enough to be easy prey for other classes. Not over-powered, but certainly annoying. Demoman: Not all Demomen, but any Demoman attempting a charge is stopped dead in his tracks with a Natascha round. Not over-powered per-se, as it's the Demoman's fault for stupidly charging an attentive Heavy with melee. Pyro: Pyros often relied on the rush + circle-strafe tactic to take down Heavies, as they are a relatively fast class with high damage output at close-range, and their relatively high speed allows them to escape Sasha Heavies with their lives, albeit barely. With Natascha though, any choke-points where an ambush is impossible (aka most of the spawn points in Dustbowl) are a death-trap for Pyros if a Natascha heavy is about.