Heavy-Medic Counter - Games

[QUOTE=ghosevil;25408000]If the medic isn't a retarded kid he just has to watch his back and not get stabbed, if the heavy isn't a retarded kid he'll hear or see your kill and rip you to ribbons - he just needs to be ON par to realize you're using the eternal reward, too. Honestly, it's like some of you have just bought the game. Oh, and this thread is about heavy-medic [i]spam[/i], good job reading the thread.[/QUOTE] The Eternal Reward a SILENT kill

[QUOTE=Matrix374;25412885]The Eternal Reward a SILENT kill[/QUOTE] Not until they fix the kill notification will it be a great weapon.

[QUOTE=Matrix374;25412885]The Eternal Reward a SILENT kill[/QUOTE] There's also a noticeable "CHP... splat", and if the Spy says ANYTHING after getting a kill, it will sound like a Spy to everyone.

if they are spy paranoid, your chances are pretty slim on getting backstabs

As a pyro you have a slight chance if you're quick with the degreaser and the axetuinguisher, but only if the heavy doesn't have natascha. Medic+Heavy with natascha is basically not counterable.

They'll lose if you manage to take them all out in quick succession, unless it's instaspawn server. They are really disadvantaging themselves by playing only heavy medic.

Aim for the medic anyway you can. [editline]15th October 2010[/editline] Requesting picture of the guy saying shoot the medic first.

[QUOTE=HyperTails;25414283]Aim for the medic anyway you can. [editline]15th October 2010[/editline] Requesting picture of the guy saying shoot the medic first.[/QUOTE] [img]http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/217534009_hZ5oD-L-2.jpg[/img] I'll re-host it in the morning, too fucking tired right now.

[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;25413682]As a pyro you have a slight chance if you're quick with the degreaser and the axetuinguisher, but only if the heavy doesn't have natascha. Medic+Heavy with natascha is basically not counterable.[/QUOTE] On an overhealed Heavy that's lighting him and then 3 swings at point blank range. On an aware Heavy, You'd maybe get the first swing in and the die. Just kamikaze on the medic and run if you can

That's generally my strategy yeah. It also works if you attack them from behind as they take on a group of your allies, the heavy will barely notice the fire, let alone the crit stings.

I love airblasing the medic away just to piss the player off :v:

K, back and have time. First off you have to realise that a Medic/Pocket Combo is 2 people working together, and as such expecting a reliable way to take them both down on your own is unrealistic and dumb. Multiple Heavy/Medic combos just means they are working as a team. As such, use your team to counter theirs. First, let's take a look at their strengths and weaknesses. [u]Strengths[/u] + High health pool + High close range damage output, decent midrange damage output + No reload needed + Additional healing (Sandvich) + Slows on hit (Natascha) [u]Weaknesses[/u] - Slow movement speed - No burst damage May seem imbalanced, but those downsides are far more significant than you'd realise on first glance. Additionally, you can avoid 3 of his strengths with minor effort. [u]General tactics[/u] The high health pool is simply there and can not be worked around, but his damage output relies on maintaining a clear line of sight. As almost every other class has burst damage, use this to your advantage by abusing cover to greatly decrease his effective damage output. In a straight up fight a Soldier wouldn't stand much of a chance vs the Heavy, but by using cover effectively you can take as much as [b]50%[/b] off his damage output without compromising your own. You can utilise the same tactic to negate his no reload advantage, by being out of his LoS when you need to reload. The additional healing is at the cost of being defenseless for a few seconds. Either he throws it and loses (0.87 + 1 + 1 + 0.87 = ) 3.74 seconds in which he can't fire back (which you can use to get the advantageous position/take a dig at his Medic) or he loses 7.74 seconds eating the Sandvich, leaving himself and his Medic undefended. If you're a Demo, use this time to put a bunch of Stickies at his feet and blow him skyhigh when he's done eating. If you're a Pyro, set him on fire and start Axetinguishing away (though you should avoid engaging Heavies when you're a Pyro). The slow on hit is simply there, and the reason Natascha is overpowered. There is no way around it and it forces you to engage the Heavy directly in a battle of attrition, which you will lose if you're not a Sasha Heavy since he has more firepower, more health and lacks the need to reload. No counter other than a Sniper at long range/Spy/Sasha Heavy. [u]Class Specific where applicable[/u] As a Scout, it's unwise to engage spun up Heavies though doable if you can get close before he spots you. When he's firing back and you're close range, move and jump erratically. He'll have a far harder time hitting you than you have hitting them: you're light, fast and all over the place, he's slow, big and pretty stationary. Doublejumping on top/off and over him and back works very well, only a handful of Heavies are capable of still tracking you and if they can you were simply outplayed. FaN isn't recommended due to the small clipsize, the Scattergun and Short Stop work very well. Short Stop allows you to stay at range, although you'll take a little longer to kill him. Mad Milk works well too due to the nature of his damage (allows you to 'tank' his damage). Sandman is a godsend to killing them since hitting a Heavy with the Sandman is pretty easy for any decent Scout, and it stuns long enough for you to get close and deal some significant damage. As a Soldier, the Direct Hit nukes Heavies. It's not good for many things, but one thing it does better than a lot of weapons is kill Heavies due to the increased damage and rocket speed. He'll take more than 4 rockets, but 4 rockets and quickly switching to the Shotgun while your Medic goes to Needlegun him works very well at killing them. Buff Banner makes it very tough for him, though you lose your Shotgun. Demomen, you have burst damage. He doesn't. Apply the general tactics and he'll be in trouble soon enough. Scottish Resistance/Pain Train/Eyelander/Targe don't come recommended, use the Pipe Launcher and Sticky Launcher. Stickies at range, Pipes when he gets closer. Engineer shouldn't even be directly engaging, at least not without a Sentry. Minisentries leave you with little chance, but a regular Sentry of at least lvl 2 combined with the Wrangler goes toe to toe with a Heavy. A lvl3 Sentry will kill him before he can kill it, and if he somehow manages to kill it he's going to be low enough to take only 1 or 2 Shotgun shots. Sniper is a nobrainer, or will make him a nobrainer rather. Long range the Sniper isn't in danger. Close range Sniper rifle will be in trouble, the best he can do is quickscope the Medic. With the Huntsman, you stand a much better chance as long as you can get a fully-charged Headshot on him right away and there's cover for you to hide behind while reloading. Jarate makes it easier but isn't recommended. This was written assuming Heavy + Medic vs X + Medic. If there's for instance 2 Soldiers against him, the general tactics apply. Use your brain and switch off your times of attack and places of attack (don't both attack from the same side).

words words words.. oh and you said FaN is not great for heavies, i always use it and im doing actually very good against heavys

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;25417745]words words words.. oh and you said FaN is not great for heavies, i always use it and im doing actually very good against heavys[/QUOTE] Doesn't work against good Heavies. All you do is make him aware of your position while putting him at a distance where it works in his favor.

Camp in spawn with/as a medic and wait for his/her/your uber to be filled. Have a Pyro help you to airblast their medics away too with an uber.

[QUOTE=Larikang;25403944]After joining three different servers and getting completely steam rolled by teams that consisted mostly of four or five heavy-medic pairs, I'm wondering if there is any good counter for such a strategy. Ever since that heavy buff a few patches back, the winning team seems to be decided by who has the best heavies and medics. The only good counter I've seen is to get more heavies and medics on your team and then the game just ins't fun anymore. It fucking ruins the game in my opinion because it makes all of the classes seem useless.[/QUOTE] I don't think i've ever seen that happen, except for maybe once. Might be because i live under a rock and play on the same server pretty much all the time. But yeah, if they have a heavy medic pairs, it means that they're working as a team. Well probably more like several separate pairs, but it's still much more effective than everyone being on their own. So you work as a team too. You probably won't be able to take out an approaching pair yourself, so retreat and wait for backup. Use splash damage against them and stay far enough from the heavy. They're slow, it shouldn't be hard. Also demomen are good counters against heavies. They have a good damage output even at medium range, can fire around corners and are good against slow targets. Kritzcharge one and he'll cut through heavy-medic pairs like hot knife through butter.