Honestly the two flamethrowers should have the same damage. Valve should focus on making the BB an ambush weapon like it's always intended to be.
Give it some kind of alt-fire that supports that role. I've seen mods that made the backburner an alt-fire that would make the Pyro leap forward 10-15 feet.
It's main issue is it's function and it's ability to give the Pyro an alternate playstyle, not it's basic stats like damage.
[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;21949569]Honestly the two flamethrowers should have the same damage. Valve should focus on making the BB an ambush weapon like it's always intended to be.
Give it some kind of alt-fire that supports that role. I've seen mods that made the backburner an alt-fire that would make the Pyro leap forward 10-15 feet.
It's main issue is it's function and it's ability to give the Pyro an alternate playstyle, not it's basic stats like damage.[/QUOTE]
yeah that's a good idea, like the charge n' targe for the demoman wasn't annoying enough let's give it to the pyro
Fix his damage and afterburn, and add afterburn that never stops for the backburner (unless extinguished by a liquid or healing source). Also add a 7% speed increase so he has Medic Speed. Then add an airblast jump for pyro and 10% more damage to the Backburner.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;21949845]yeah that's a good idea, like the charge n' targe for the demoman wasn't annoying enough let's give it to the pyro[/QUOTE]
No, it'll be more like the Hunter, except instead of clawing your face off, it'll burn your face off. :v:
:downs:
[QUOTE=Aaron0000;21951972]Fix his damage and afterburn, and add afterburn that never stops for the backburner (unless extinguished by a liquid or healing source). Also add a 7% speed increase so he has Medic Speed. Then add an airblast jump for pyro and 10% more damage to the Backburner.[/QUOTE]
This.
[QUOTE=Aaron0000;21951972]Fix his damage and afterburn, and add afterburn that never stops for the backburner (unless extinguished by a liquid or healing source). Also add a 7% speed increase so he has Medic Speed. Then add an airblast jump for pyro and 10% more damage to the Backburner.[/QUOTE]
All of those together would be overpowered. A few are nice ideas though.
Good, I always hated pyro anyway.
I don't feel like this is nerf.
As long as Pyros light my huntsman arrows on fire, I'm totally cool with anything.
No, The pyro is balanced as he is. If he gets an airblast jump he's going to get unbalanced.
I think a speed increase and a small damage boost to the flamethrower should do. Maybe a 10% increase for it.
[QUOTE=Chekko;21955482]No, The pyro is balanced as he is. If he gets an airblast jump he's going to get unbalanced.[/QUOTE]
True, but he should get something to amp up his mobility for ambushing tactics.
Jetpack secondary?
[QUOTE=Erebus.;21955771]I think a speed increase and a small damage boost to the flamethrower should do. Maybe a 10% increase for it.[/QUOTE]
A speed INCREASE? Boost DAMAGE to the normal flamethrower? No, you're fucking insane. Neither of those should happen to the pyro, especially the speed. ESPECIALLY THE SPEED.
[editline]01:20AM[/editline]
He is [I][B][U][HIGHLIGHT]AN AMBUSH CLASS[/B][/U][/I][/HIGHLIGHT]. Not fucking run you down and murder the shit out of you. If you increase their speed, WM1 Pyros will fucking destroy everything.
[QUOTE=!xHDMicrobe;21955951]A speed INCREASE? Boost DAMAGE to the normal flamethrower? No, you're fucking insane. Neither of those should happen to the pyro, especially the speed. ESPECIALLY THE SPEED.
[editline]01:20AM[/editline]
He is [I][B][U][HIGHLIGHT]AN AMBUSH CLASS[/HIGHLIGHT][/U][/B][/I]. Not fucking run you down and murder the shit out of you. If you increase their speed, WM1 Pyros will fucking destroy everything.[/QUOTE]
I think the pyro should be at least rebuffed back to what he used to be, as he stands he's useless. The spy is a better ambush class because well.. he can kill people.
[QUOTE=Moreto;21956048]I think the pyro should be at least rebuffed back to what he used to be, as he stands he's useless. The spy is a better ambush class because well.. he can kill people.[/QUOTE]
The flamethrower should be upgraded to a close but not exact copy of the flamethrower before the patch. A little less damage but not to much where you are better off using the shotgun. Also the speed boost I suggested was a little too much but the only reason why I brought it up was because of the Pyro's range and how he fares against long range classes such as the Sniper, Soldier, Engineer, and Medic (in some cases). The speed boost would not be used as an offensive buff but rather a buff to prevent the Pyro from getting killed by long range classes. Also the speed I was suggesting was one that was equal to the Medic's speed.
[QUOTE=Moreto;21956048]I think the pyro should be at least rebuffed back to what he used to be, as he stands he's useless.[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3y3QoFnqZc[/media]
[QUOTE=ThndrShk2k;21955917]True, but he should get something to amp up his mobility for ambushing tactics.
Jetpack secondary?[/QUOTE]
Or a less powerful flamethrower.
[editline]07:45AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Moreto;21956048]I think the pyro should be at least rebuffed back to what he used to be, as he stands he's useless. The spy is a better ambush class because well.. he can kill people.[/QUOTE]
I think it's more balanced now. I mean, before the update you could kill a scout as pyro by only igniting him on fire and let him die from the fire.
[QUOTE=Chekko;21956786]I think it's more balanced now. I mean, before the update you could kill a scout as pyro by only igniting him on fire and let him die from the fire.[/QUOTE]You mean that, as a Pyro, I could often set enemies on fire and retreat; leaving them to die from the burning?
My [i]god[/i].
[QUOTE=Chekko;21956786]Or a less powerful flamethrower.
[editline]07:45AM[/editline]
I think it's more balanced now. I mean, before the update you could kill a scout as pyro by only igniting him on fire and let him die from the fire.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, not seeing where you're going with the that reply to my mobility suggestion.
You say he's balanced, I agree, and interject my idea that secondary unlock that gives pyro more mobility(not speed) would make him a better ambush class (Hiding more places, escaping), and you suggest a nerfed flamethrower?
:v:
[QUOTE=Chekko;21956786]Or a less powerful flamethrower.
[editline]07:45AM[/editline]
I think it's more balanced now. I mean, before the update you could kill a scout as pyro by only igniting him on fire and let him die from the fire.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's so much better now.
If I'm on fire I don't even worry at all. It's gunna do like 30 damage tops.
30 Damage Afterburn + Too many ways to get rid of it = Pointless
I mean really, that does take the piss.
[QUOTE=ThndrShk2k;21957281]Yeah, not seeing where you're going with the that reply to my mobility suggestion.
You say he's balanced, I agree, and interject my idea that secondary unlock that gives pyro more mobility(not speed) would make him a better ambush class (Hiding more places, escaping), and you suggest a nerfed flamethrower?
:v:[/QUOTE]
Well you said something about airblast-jumping (or it might be someone else). I replied to that suggestion with a less powerful flamethrower, then you replied to me with jetpack pyro for ambushing advantages. What i meant was, if you had the jetpack equiped you get a less powerful flamethrower, somehow.
I actually found that the Pyro nerf reassured me of my skill at playing Pyro. Before the nerf, I always wondered whether my higher scores as Pyro than other classes were due to it being overpowered, but since it has remained like this since the update, I know its me as the class not the class itself.
[QUOTE=!xHDMicrobe;21955951]A speed INCREASE? Boost DAMAGE to the normal flamethrower? No, you're fucking insane. Neither of those should happen to the pyro, especially the speed. ESPECIALLY THE SPEED.
[editline]01:20AM[/editline]
He is [I][B][U][HIGHLIGHT]AN AMBUSH CLASS[/B][/U][/I][/HIGHLIGHT]. Not fucking run you down and murder the shit out of you. If you increase their speed, WM1 Pyros will fucking destroy everything.[/QUOTE]
You're right: the speed increase would be ridiculous. But he's not much of an [I][B][U][HIGHLIGHT]AN AMBUSH CLASS[/HIGHLIGHT][/B][/U][/I] if, after ambushing someone, they turn around, kill you, and then don't die from the afterburn.
Right the now the flamethrower seems way too weak. To be honest, before the nerf I never once felt like I was getting killed too often by pyros. The fact is that pyro only felt overpowered if you didn't know how to fight one. Soldier, heavy, and demo are all slower than the pyro and thus susceptible to ambushing, however they also dish out way more damage and are better at medium range. Medics and scouts are weak against the pyro, but they're also faster which means that they can just run away and grab health. Snipers and spies get owned by pyros at close range but that's how it should be. All of that was fine before the nerf, but now even if the pyro successfully ambushes someone it's quite feasible to kill the pyro and have enough health left to survive the afterburn.
You also have to take into account that on many maps there are many situations where it simply isn't possible to ambush anyone. For example on attack/defend maps like payload or certain cp maps, it can be very hard for pyros on offense to ambush enemies since usually the enemies are turtled up and defending choke points. That's not exactly an uncommon situation, and there the pyro is pretty much reduced to shotgunning and airblasting - not exactly a strong offensive presence on the battlefield.
I always use the backburner. I need the crits for the near instant kills from the back, damage is too bollocks otherwise, I don't like getting outshot by a scout at close range.
[QUOTE=Chekko;21958454]Well you said something about airblast-jumping (or it might be someone else). I replied to that suggestion with a less powerful flamethrower, then you replied to me with jetpack pyro for ambushing advantages. What i meant was, if you had the jetpack equiped you get a less powerful flamethrower, somehow.[/QUOTE]
Oh, so basically you were saying that a potential jetpack secondary weapon would also have to nerf the pyro's flamethrower as well as making it so the pyro doesn't have a secondary weapon?
Personally I think the lack of a secondary weapon is enough of a downside for a small boost in where the pyro can reach and how they can run away. It'd make them focus more on ambushing from difficult spots, or hitting and running (where the enemy can't reach them as easily with just normal movement).
And yeah, someone else was suggesting airblast jump. I think it'd make it OP because it'd give no one a reason to bother with backburner, giving the Flamethrower too many good things. At least with a secondary unlock, people will have to choose mobility VS Damage/Weapon
[QUOTE=Diealready;21889184]Great! Now melee spies actually have a chance of defeating a pyro.
shit sucks for hardcore pyro players that actually use technique to what they do (other than w+m1 or m1+m2+corner players (you can't seriously say you haven't had this happen to you, a pyro sets you on fire then blastbacks you into a corner so you can't fucking move and then you die.)) It's sad to see that the pyro got nerfed but players that w+m1 will now be useless.[/QUOTE]
You shouldn't win if you try to melee a fucking pyro.
That defeats the whole purpose of pyro - He's deadly at close range.
Also, axetinguisher's pretty useful against any class provided you get the jump on them and strike first.
Even heavies.
In my opinion, they should put the flamethrower damage back to what it was and remove one of the airblast buffs.
Ever since this update I've been learning to use airblast and the axtinguisher.
Now I'm better pyro :downs:
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