[QUOTE=Zannabluke;35507684]Direct Hit + Bison?
For badass only.[/QUOTE]
I used to do this
Bison is really great with Direct Hit because it gives back that crowd control ability the Direct Hit lacks and its train-sized hitbox is excellent against tricky Scoots.
Can someone tell me how to do this config in console?
[URL="http://pastebin.com/1yf2HQzz"]http://pastebin.com/1yf2HQzz[/URL]
[QUOTE='[Green];35492956']Isn't that obvious? The grenade launcher is a classic demoknight's only source of ranged damage and with the LnL it's a damn good one. I only use the grenade launcher if I want an extra way out since rollers can be pretty discouraging to cross for my chasers. I mean, sure i killed their Medic who had a full charge but an exploding carpet of temporary weak stickies gives me enough time to get health and some distance from angry scouts, a Heavy and two Soldiers who are moer than eager to shoot me to bits n pieces.
Unfortunate for them, that shit's my job. Even as a demoknight, I get 4-5 heads and then use p. much solely the grenade launcher. The Eyelander comes in handy when dealing with extreme juggler Scouts who go across the map and then in your face. Easy to kill in two swings.
It's also great for W+M1 Pyros if you're stuck in CQC, although even with 210 health and 50% resistance to fire a Backburner is still damn damaging.
Other than that, LnL jugglin' all day erry day.
Makes Demoknighting feel good.
[editline]9th April 2012[/editline]
It's about as rewarding as a chainstab yet as easy as W+M1 pyro. I've played Pyro a lot and it doesn't work only if the entire enemy team is Scouts (in which case you use a Reserve Shooter or airblast+flare) or Heavies with pocket Medics and even then you can wait until they're distracted by your teammates and haxtinguish them. It's oneshot for medic, depending on the overheal the Heavy has 2-3 swings. But you don't need to land 3 swings, even two is enough. Then airblast him around the corner, run away and let the teammates get him. The afterburn does your job in his health already.
The only time I've felt Pyro rewarding was when I managed to land a good run with vanilla flamethrower, vanilla shotgun and the Third Degree. Degreaser is a skilless Pyro's crutch, if you know how to actually play Pyro you don't [B][U]need[/U][/B] that shit.[/QUOTE]
Degreaser may be a "skill-less" weapon but I need it to extinguish my teammates and shoo away rockets and grenades. It´s Team Fortress 2 after all. :smile:
[QUOTE=Liquidrocks;35508002]I've tried using the Cowmangler + Bison a time ago just for laughs and I found that the Bison it's pretty useful and balanced. Now I use it always on my main loadout and I want badly a Strange one.[/QUOTE]
I don't want a S. Bison, only because I'd have to spend the metal to get one and the tags to make it sufficiently badass:
[IMG]http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z424/BanthaFodder95/SoldierShotFirst.jpg[/IMG]
So am I the only one who ever goes team doctor?
Crusaders crossbow
quick-fix
amputator
C-Crossbow hit allies to heal them/quick-fix heal people faster/amputator taunt heals people.
I really don't like having my medi-gun plugged in to heavies all day. I'd rather help and heal the whole team faster.
This medic load out is pretty effective in some payload maps like gold rush and bad water basin. But kinda useless in maps like 2_fort and ctf_turbine
[QUOTE='[Green];35492956']The only time I've felt Pyro rewarding was when I managed to land a good run with vanilla flamethrower, vanilla shotgun and the Third Degree. Degreaser is a skilless Pyro's crutch, if you know how to actually play Pyro you don't [B][U]need[/U][/B] that shit.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understand what you're talking about here. Good Pyros use the Degreaser because it helps them do what they do best, rather than other flamers which are gimped in one way or another. There's no room for this 'skill-less' argument. That doesn't matter at all. By that token, ANY flamer's M1 flames are novice level to aim onto an opponent. Just hold the button to do damage... M2 requires quite a bit more skill than M1, especially when it comes to meeting Pyros who reflect opponents onto the ground to stop their movement and kill them with the Reserve Shooter, or those who can reflect Loch-N-Load grenades / Direct Hit Rockets / Huntsman arrows.
It's not a crutch. It's widely regarded as Pyro's most useful tool in his arsenal to use. The weapon switch speed opens many opportunities for Pyro to quickly switch back and forth between reflecting rockets and shooting his shotgun, and the famous Axtinguisher combo, too.
"Skill" is a measure of player ability not weapon ability. By that I mean you can't judge a player for having skill for using a certain weapon. There's great and shitty players playing with any weapon imaginable on TF2. You can't just say all users of X weapon are skill-less or skillful. It doesn't work that way.
I use the stock flamethrower. Mainly because I don't rally need that little bit faster switch time to get to my maul and I like to airblast.
[QUOTE=Joey JoJo;35519330]I don't think you understand what you're talking about here. Good Pyros use the Degreaser because it helps them do what they do best, rather than other flamers which are gimped in one way or another. There's no room for this 'skill-less' argument. That doesn't matter at all. By that token, ANY flamer's M1 flames are novice level to aim onto an opponent. Just hold the button to do damage... M2 requires quite a bit more skill than M1, especially when it comes to meeting Pyros who reflect opponents onto the ground to stop their movement and kill them with the Reserve Shooter, or those who can reflect Loch-N-Load grenades / Direct Hit Rockets / Huntsman arrows.
It's not a crutch. It's widely regarded as Pyro's most useful tool in his arsenal to use. The weapon switch speed opens many opportunities for Pyro to quickly switch back and forth between reflecting rockets and shooting his shotgun, and the famous Axtinguisher combo, too.
"Skill" is a measure of player ability not weapon ability. By that I mean you can't judge a player for having skill for using a certain weapon. There's great and shitty players playing with any weapon imaginable on TF2. You can't just say all users of X weapon are skill-less or skillful. It doesn't work that way.[/QUOTE]
Brilliant post.
Also, L'estranger and big earner are pretty fun with the DR, though you can miss a lot of shots from the revolver spread. I was using that set today and doing pretty well, I recommend it for those who like throwing stealth out the window.
I still find it unfitting that the class with the flamethrower has to rely on the secondary fire of its primary weapon and in being able to switch to its secondary and melee to be "skilled". It is supposed to burn things to death, not being a "1337-c0mb0-mashin". That is not supposed to be what the Pyro does best. Just like the Heavy is not supposed to start gatling you down instantly and silently, or the Spy is not supposed to be a gunslinger.
Instant switching is not skill, BTW. It opens more room for error, at the cost of Afterburn damage. It is the Enforcer for the Pyro, it promotes a playstyle different from the intended, with almost negligible drawbacks if used in other ways. Without the Degreaser, you HAVE to time your switchs, you have to play better to get similar results. You need more skill to be effective at reflecting and combos without the Degreaser, but the only difference you feel if you use the Degreaser at direct fire damage is that those who scape take 45 instead of 60 damage over 10 seconds. It is a crutch, as it eliminates a key weakness of weapon-switching, at the cost of nothing. You can flame, puff and shoot a different weapon in less than a second.
Skill is the Ambassador versus the Revolver: If you learn to aim, the Ambassador is superior, but if not, it is a gimp, and, all in all, they remain a tool, the main focus being on infiltrating, backstabbing and sapping.
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;35522239]I still find it unfitting that the class with the flamethrower has to rely on the secondary fire of its primary weapon and in being able to switch to its secondary and melee to be "skilled". It is supposed to burn things to death, not being a "1337-c0mb0-mashin". That is not supposed to be what the Pyro does best. Just like the Heavy is not supposed to start gatling you down instantly and silently, or the Spy is not supposed to be a gunslinger.
Instant switching is not skill, BTW. It opens more room for error, at the cost of Afterburn damage. It is the Enforcer for the Pyro, it promotes a playstyle different from the intended, with almost negligible drawbacks if used in other ways. Without the Degreaser, you HAVE to time your switchs, you have to play better to get similar results. You need more skill to be effective at reflecting and combos without the Degreaser, but the only difference you feel if you use the Degreaser at direct fire damage is that those who scape take 45 instead of 60 damage over 10 seconds. It is a crutch, as it eliminates a key weakness of weapon-switching, at the cost of nothing. You can flame, puff and shoot a different weapon in less than a second.
Skill is the Ambassador versus the Revolver: If you learn to aim, the Ambassador is superior, but if not, it is a gimp, and, all in all, they remain a tool, the main focus being on infiltrating, backstabbing and sapping.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this.
The only thing I don't understand is when people defend puff n' sting by saying "IF YOU LET THE PYRO GET THAT CLOSE, IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT."
So the class that's designed to get in your face ends up getting in your face... and it's YOUR fault?
Isn't that like saying "If a Sniper headshots you at long range, it's your OWN FAULT."?
Well, you shouldn't be able to beat a Sniper at long range, and you shouldn't be able to beat a Pyro at close range (well, with ease).
I agree that the Degreaser needs a direct-combat [del]buff[/del][b]nerf[/b]. Switching weapons however is a valid tactic and a vital part of playing Pyro, if it wasn't, then all the classes would be the same and boring and whatever else.
If you affected direct damage, or afterburn damage / duration in a large way, then it'd make more sense as a weapon (or buff up his other flamers again again).
edit: damnit I typed buff and meant nerf. I'll just be here
Buff vanilla Flamer (indirectly buffing them all), nerf the resulting Backburner a bit so it is balanced, nerf the direct damage of the Degreaser a ton, maybe even shorter the afterburn.
In fact, I'd change afterburn in general so it lasts far less time, but does the same ammount of damage in that time as it would in the 10 seconds it lasts now. If everybody can extinguish it, give them a reason to do so NOW, not after the Pyro is dead.
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;35522239]I still find it unfitting that the class with the flamethrower has to rely on the secondary fire of its primary weapon and in being able to switch to its secondary and melee to be "skilled". It is supposed to burn things to death, not being a "1337-c0mb0-mashin". That is not supposed to be what the Pyro does best. Just like the Heavy is not supposed to start gatling you down instantly and silently, or the Spy is not supposed to be a gunslinger.
Instant switching is not skill, BTW. It opens more room for error, at the cost of Afterburn damage. It is the Enforcer for the Pyro, it promotes a playstyle different from the intended, with almost negligible drawbacks if used in other ways. Without the Degreaser, you HAVE to time your switchs, you have to play better to get similar results. You need more skill to be effective at reflecting and combos without the Degreaser, but the only difference you feel if you use the Degreaser at direct fire damage is that those who scape take 45 instead of 60 damage over 10 seconds. It is a crutch, as it eliminates a key weakness of weapon-switching, at the cost of nothing. You can flame, puff and shoot a different weapon in less than a second.[/QUOTE]
I'm torn.
I agree with you in that I've always considered the Degreaser to have no to very little downside when compared to the flamethrower. Especially when the faster weapon switch allows you to deal more damage to players outside your flamethrower's reach, which would otherwise be done by the afterburn. Degreaser doesn't require more skill or raise the skill ceiling. It just allows me to do more with what skill I have.
But at the same time, I feel like the Degreaser's playstyle is closer to the one intended; that is, being both a harasser and a close quarters demon with no solid counter. And to be honest, you know that even with a loadout of degreaser, shotgun, and axestinguisher, the pyro doesn't [b]actually[/b] play as a "1337-c0mb0-m4sh3r". The ignite/axestinguish "combo" is just a different type of ambush, a way of killing things at close range really really fast, like the backburner. It takes more "skill" to do this without the Degreaser only because the flamethrower is less efficient at doing the same job.
But this doesn't make it a crutch, as you claim. It does not [i]replace[/i] skill, but merely enhances it. Without the same honed and fundamental skills needed when playing as a pyro, you're going to do just a badly without the degreaser as you will with it. In fact, you might do better with the backburner or normal flamethrower, as you'll be able to deal more damage after a fiery death. A crutch [i]invalidates[/i] the requirement of a certain skill, making the difference between someone with the skill and someone without it negligable. But if you're trying to say a degreaser pyro who knows how to time their switches is no better than one who doesn't, I'll be disappointed.
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;35522239]Skill is the Ambassador versus the Revolver: If you learn to aim, the Ambassador is superior, but if not, it is a gimp, and, all in all, they remain a tool, the main focus being on infiltrating, backstabbing and sapping.[/quote]
And I'd like to see the difference in "skill" between a spy who spends most of their time practicing their aim versus a spy who uses the default revolver and bodyshots and instead uses that time to better their cloak, disguise, and backstab techniques. I know who I'd bet on.
Pyro is the Street Fighter class. He has a hadouken and he relies heavily on combos. You can't just mash buttons and expect to win with him either (or mash the same two buttons) (like W and M1) (geddit).
[QUOTE=Mechtroid;35532236]~ other text ~
But this doesn't make it a crutch, as you claim. It does not [i]replace[/i] skill, but merely enhances it. Without the same honed and fundamental skills needed when playing as a pyro, you're going to do just a badly without the degreaser as you will with it.
~ other text ~[/QUOTE]
In essence, it's just like I said. A better tool (weapon, in this case) brings out the best in a player.
The other person you were responding to doesn't quite get how 'skill' works. People don't change in skill quite so easily, but they can use varying weapons with different effectiveness or efficiency on the fly.
You might think that someone playing Dan in a Street Fighter game that can be Ryu has more skill. That, in a way, might be true. However, just because you pick a shitty character or weapon doesn't mean you get better at playing or anything like that. The reality of the situation is that you, as a player, probably won't change much (if at all) in skill level. So you might as well do the best that you can with your skill level by choosing the best weapon (or character) to bring out the best performance you can muster.
What I mean is that you weren't holding the fact that skill level is (mostly) a constant in the equation. It's not inversely related to the grade of the weapon. (Shitty weapon != Good Skill, Good weapon != Bad Skill.)
It's not a crutch. Other people just realize that their chances of playing well are a lot lower when you choose a weapon that is shitty.
[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;35527774]The only thing I don't understand is when people defend puff n' sting by saying "IF YOU LET THE PYRO GET THAT CLOSE, IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT."[/QUOTE]
Eh, it kind of is true. Stay in groups and the Pyro wont be able to kill you. Personal experience. From both sides.
You know, I'd like to see the Eyelander get another stat change.
-25 max health
Gains up to 4 heads, 5th head still adds 10/17 damage to shield bash
[B][I]User takes no melee crits[/I][/B]
This would make puff-n-sting pyros much less of a pain and would give you at least a fighting chance. In melee combat where a demoknight is supposed to excel you COULD be the king instead of "oh shit he got a crit there goes my heads"
It wouldn't affect a demoknight vs soldier in any way since any ranged weapon would still crit your ass, so unless you'd plan on kritz batting the demoknight to death, this wouldn't even matter to you.
Whaddya think?
[QUOTE='[Green];35615988']You know, I'd like to see the Eyelander get another stat change.
-25 max health
Gains up to 4 heads, 5th head still adds 10/17 damage to shield bash
[B][I]User takes no melee crits[/I][/B]
This would make puff-n-sting pyros much less of a pain and would give you at least a fighting chance. In melee combat where a demoknight is supposed to excel you COULD be the king instead of "oh shit he got a crit there goes my heads"
It wouldn't affect a demoknight vs soldier in any way since any ranged weapon would still crit your ass, so unless you'd plan on kritz batting the demoknight to death, this wouldn't even matter to you.
Whaddya think?[/QUOTE]
Eh. I don't hold Demoknight as a serious contender for a subclass hardly ever. I do kind of like the stat idea, but I'm not so sure it should stay with the Eyelander.
[QUOTE=mutated;35617103]Eh. I don't hold Demoknight as a serious contender for a subclass hardly ever. I do kind of like the stat idea, but I'm not so sure it should stay with the Eyelander.[/QUOTE]
Nah, unless you're playing competitive it has it's uses. Since 12-v-12 comp matches never happen to my knowledge, Demoknight is seen as a subclass never used although Demoman is in competitive and therefore regarded as useless while it's not. The reason is that people keep playing Demoknight like a Demoman while you switch from an offensive class to a supportive subclass.
Demoknight is a great clean-up type subclass, spychecker, spam helper, pseudo-Scout and in some cases a great damage tanker too.
Because your grenade launcher still hurts, you can draw attention from a Medic or another important teammate onto yourself because thanks to your charge and high speed with 4 heads you can easily get away and kite enemies. Medics can't really do that. Pyro works similarly, although he has a different playstyle.
Demoknight is in my view a mix of Scout, Pyro and Spy. You need to get behind people, harass them and by that support your team and kind of lessen the enemy lines either by killing a few or taking a few of them into chasing you instead of shooting your team. With a regular Demoman you'd be spamming stickies onto them but what then, maybe they're too fast and you can't get away from their retalitation.
Good points.
The idea of supportive subclass gave me an idea, just as a technical idea: give the Demoman some or all of the Soldier's backpacks, in place of his secondary slot.
[QUOTE='[Green];35615988']You know, I'd like to see the Eyelander get another stat change.
-25 max health
Gains up to 4 heads, 5th head still adds 10/17 damage to shield bash
[B][I]User takes no melee crits[/I][/B]
[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/2/2d/RedFlaregun.png[/IMG]
Dont mind me.
[QUOTE=Fury McFlurry;35646062][IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/2/2d/RedFlaregun.png[/IMG]
Dont mind me.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. The pyro should keep his distance and use the Reserve Shooter or Flaregun to kill a Demoknight. Being able to melee kill a melee master so easily is bullshit, but with guns? Demoknight's fault at that point.
Pyro would still be a legitimate counter to Demoknight while keeping the subclass' own strengths untouched.
And speaking of giving Soldier banners to Demoman...Jesus Christ do you understand how easily a Demoman could destroy enemy teams with a Buff Banner? Or heal himself with Concheror? It wouldn't take but one or two pipes and/or a stickytrap (i forget which one was secondary) to fully restore a Demoman to full health. IF Concheror could overheal, it'd be even better.
Hey guys,just wanted to ask on my pyro set..I am using Degreaser and Powerjack but I can't decide about the secondary,I can't use reserve shooter effectively so Shotgun ro Flare gun?
[QUOTE=NekuMisage;35650816]Hey guys,just wanted to ask on my pyro set..I am using Degreaser and Powerjack but I can't decide about the secondary,I can't use reserve shooter effectively so Shotgun ro Flare gun?[/QUOTE]
Shotgun for clearing areas, Flare Gun if you tend to be more defensive as Pyro.
[QUOTE=NekuMisage;35650816]Hey guys,just wanted to ask on my pyro set..I am using Degreaser and Powerjack but I can't decide about the secondary,I can't use reserve shooter effectively so Shotgun ro Flare gun?[/QUOTE]
I'd imagine it's up to your preference. If you're really good with the flargun, you can deal more damage and any range. I used to use it to counter-snipe snipers (until my aim deteriorated from using the grenade and rocket launchers). If you're not so good with it, you can still practice with it until you get good, or stick with a trusty shotgun.
[QUOTE=NekuMisage;35650816]Hey guys,just wanted to ask on my pyro set..I am using Degreaser and Powerjack but I can't decide about the secondary,I can't use reserve shooter effectively so Shotgun ro Flare gun?[/QUOTE]
Personally I use the Shotgun, but that has to do with the fact that I'm using the full set. Shotgun let's me pepper enemies with damage more easily and is less likely to finish off burning enemies before I can land a Powerjack kill. Also gives me a more reliable fallback if I happen to run out of ammo for my primary.
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