I really don't rely on silhouettes to identify classes under any circumstances and with all that items that completely alter silhouettes I don't know why it's even a big deal if an item causes some changes in a classes shape. And colors don't mean much to me. If I'm on Blu know to shoot Red.
[QUOTE=Deodorant;37656764][IMG]http://i.imm.io/Egsx.png[/IMG]
This is of course hyperbole, but with a whole bunch of not-yet-added items thrown into the mix I can see situations like this happening.
Look, I'm not trying to say that Valve sucks or that cosmetics are a terrible thing or anything. Just.. Just try to keep class identification in mind when designing items, and don't throw one identifying factor out the window just because other ones exist. That's all I'm trying to say.[/QUOTE]
Regardless, the most important parts of the character models as far as identification goes is between their shoulders and knees. Take any class from those two ranges and you can identify which one it is. The idle animations key you into knowing what kind of weapon they're aiming at you, aside from a few outliers like the Shortstop, but even those kinds of outliers have animations that are used on weapons that have similar effective ranges. The textures on the playermodels are intended to draw your eye to their torso in the first place, it emphasizes the area where they are holding their weapons, which keys more into the threat identification that was a focal point in designing the classes according to the Developer's commentary.
Something as slight as a lump on their head or neck or shoulder does not have a significant enough impact unless you're in a map where you are unable to see the rest of their body and there is poor lighting in that area. As long as nothing is dramatically changing the important identification parts of the classes' bodies, there isn't anything to worry about. Even at ranges, you can still see a rough coloring of the class and can tell one from another. It's not purely silhouette unless it's just a badly-lit map.
sure if you take their head shapes at face value, but Sniper and Spy don't really have any similar postures, and Spy's coloring is very distinct.
also this is eliminating colors which is a huge point in character recognition.
I have never once in tf2 had any problem telling what class they are even from a large distance.
This is as bad as the time someone tried to argue that the only part that showed it was a scout was the white socks.
[QUOTE=Psychopath12;37656806]Regardless, the most important parts of the character models as far as identification goes is between their shoulders and knees. Take any class from those two ranges and you can identify which one it is. The idle animations key you into knowing what kind of weapon they're aiming at you, aside from a few outliers like the Shortstop, but even those kinds of outliers have animations that are used on weapons that have similar effective ranges. The textures on the playermodels are intended to draw your eye to their torso in the first place, it emphasizes the area where they are holding their weapons, which keys more into the threat identification that was a focal point in designing the classes according to the Developer's commentary.
Something as slight as a lump on their head or neck or shoulder does not have a significant enough impact unless you're in a map where you are unable to see the rest of their body and there is poor lighting in that area. As long as nothing is dramatically changing the important identification parts of the classes' bodies, there isn't anything to worry about. Even at ranges, you can still see a rough coloring of the class and can tell one from another. It's not purely silhouette unless it's just a badly-lit map.[/QUOTE]
you're missing his point, he's saying that when enough compromising elements are combined it becomes a problem, not one item in itself
[QUOTE=SgtR007;37656418]Better on Engi? Added a subtle normal map, paintable.
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27092744/brideoffrank_engi.PNG[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27092744/brideoffrank_engi_allangles.png[/img]
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27092744/brideoffrank_engi_green.PNG[/img][/QUOTE]
If anything, it would only fit on Medic and Pyro.
Also I feel you should soften the black lines in the white streak.
[QUOTE=Quinnjdq;37656822]This is as bad as the time someone tried to argue that the only part that showed it was a scout was the white socks.[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone was that extreme about it, the thing there is that the bright feet help see where the crazy jumping bugger is cause it marks off his outermost parts
it's not a huge deal but it helps more than you might think
i'd also like to add that some of thees things don't apply to everybody, some people notice different things the quickest
[QUOTE=blaholtzen;37656843]you're missing his point, he's saying that when enough compromising elements are combined it becomes a problem, not one item in itself[/QUOTE]
I'm not missing the point. I'm saying that unless something directly changes the core of the classes, there is nothing to worry about.
A Sniper with whatever doohickeys on his body and head is still identifiable as a Sniper because of his shape, his posture, and the coloration of his vest and shirt. Same applies for every other class. A Spy is still identifiable by his team-colored suit, Medic still has a bright lab coat, Scout has his team-colored t-shirt and backpack, Heavy has a big vest and bullet bandolier, Demoman has a dark blast vest, Soldier has a distinct team-colored uniform, Engineer with his overalls, and Pyro with his asbestos-lined suit.
Unless an item or group of items are added that drastically change one of those class's key uniforms to a degree that's severe enough to be unrecognizable, then you can complain about identification being thrown out the window. For now, everything is perfectly fine.
[QUOTE=ZnT00;37656569]Make the ears a little bigger?[/QUOTE]
better?
[IMG]http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg268/scaled.php?server=268&filename=earxo.jpg&res=landing[/IMG]
[QUOTE=BANG!;37650497]Better late than never :wink:
[URL="http://i.imgur.com/Mdjg7.jpg"][IMG]http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/3724/mitigatorbanner.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]
BANG! Release the Sticky Kickers (knee pads), please.
Ever wonder what would happen if the Medic got his hands on some haunted bones [from Coaltown]?
[img]http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8847/octopusr.png[/img]
[sub]Excuse the missing texture...[/sub]
[QUOTE=Quinnjdq;37656822]also this is eliminating colors which is a huge point in character recognition.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zoshi235;37655960]Silhouette matters a lot more than skin color as far as Readability is concerned.[/QUOTE]
Again, I'm not saying readability is a problem in the game as it currently is. But that readability is based on a bunch of different factors (Colors, silhouettes, postures etc), and if everyone makes items that partially affects some of these factors, claiming that the other factors still make the class easily recognizable, we may eventually end up with possible loadouts that can hinder recognition for real, under bad circumstances.
A Hashashin Spy is really quite easily distinguishable from an Anger Sniper even at a distance, but would a Spy wearing the Hashashin and a black vest misc while wielding an unusually big knife be instantly distinguishable from a sniper wearing the Anger, a pale-striped-shirt-under-the-vest misc and a long-sleeves misc while wielding an unusually small kukri?
[QUOTE=Szraneraxtq;37656949]Ever wonder what would happen if the Medic got his hands on some haunted bones [from Coaltown]?
[img]http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8847/octopusr.png[/img]
[sub]Excuse the missing texture...[/sub][/QUOTE]
This actually seems like a really neat idea for a weapon. I'd like to see a medic laser ray that uses the medigun animations like that. Also the smaller size makes it look interesting and different, without the pipes/extra bits behind the hands.
Working on a super secret halloween item.
[img]http://puu.sh/14RgD[/img]
Most likely not gonna be submitted though.
[editline]14th September 2012[/editline]
Twice now?
Really?
[QUOTE=Deodorant;37656964]A Hashashin Spy is really quite easily distinguishable from an Anger Sniper even at a distance, but would a Spy wearing the Hashashin and a black vest misc while wielding an unusually big knife be instantly distinguishable from a sniper wearing the Anger and a pale-striped-shirt-under-the-vest misc while wielding an unusually small kukri?[/QUOTE]
Yes, but they aren't going to DO that. Valve employees are smart people. Unless Valve gets bought out by EA, you probably don't have anything to worry about.
[QUOTE=Psychopath12;37656900]I'm not missing the point. I'm saying that unless something directly changes the core of the classes, there is nothing to worry about.
A Sniper with whatever doohickeys on his body and head is still identifiable as a Sniper because of his shape, his posture, and the coloration of his vest and shirt. Same applies for every other class. A Spy is still identifiable by his team-colored suit, Medic still has a bright lab coat, Scout has his team-colored t-shirt and backpack, Heavy has a big vest and bullet bandolier, Demoman has a dark blast vest, Soldier has a distinct team-colored uniform, Engineer with his overalls, and Pyro with his asbestos-lined suit.
Unless an item or group of items are added that drastically change one of those class's key uniforms to a degree that's severe enough to be unrecognizable, then you can complain about identification being thrown out the window. For now, everything is perfectly fine.[/QUOTE]
they have that now yes but over time, unless people avoid it, things might not be as clear anymore.
and the heavy arm thing (that i believe is what started this whole discussion) wasn't about class recognition (making it hard to see what class someone is is near impossible without some major bodygroups and items) it was about changing the areas which draws your attention on heavy as a whole.
and this goes for other classes as well, nowadays you can wear brightly colored things on the feet of most classes while covering up the bright parts of their torso which might leave your eyes distracted by someones feet as they kill you without you even noticing what they used to do it. (this might not be a case with heavy though seeing how low he carries his minigun)
things like this isn't everything but they still matter and neglecting that is bad
like, it won't make the game impossible to play but it does effects the flow of gameplay
[QUOTE=blaholtzen;37657055]they have that now yes but over time, unless people avoid it, things might not be as clear anymore.
and the heavy arm thing (that i believe is what started this whole discussion) wasn't about class recognition (making it hard to see what class someone is is near impossible without some major bodygroups and items) it was about changing the areas which draws your attention on heavy as a whole.
and this goes for other classes as well, nowadays you can wear brightly colored things on the feet of most classes while covering up the bright parts of their torso which might leave your eyes distracted by someones feet as they kill you without you even noticing what they used to do it. (this might not be a case with heavy though seeing how low he carries his minigun)
things like this isn't everything but they still matter and neglecting that is bad[/QUOTE]
I'm tired and Badgerpig does this whole talking thing better than I, but this is basically what I'm trying to say.
[QUOTE=Deodorant;37657073]I'm tired and Badgerpig does this whole talking thing better than I, but this is basically what I'm trying to say.[/QUOTE]
hey i'm tired too, that's why i keep rambling so much :v:
i'm done now though, gonna go to bed and sleep in it
Does anyone know what's wrong here?
I installed BANG!'s Mitigator mod and copied and pasted the 'models' and 'materials' into the tf folder.
Went ingame, none of the skins had shown up.
So what'd I do wrong?
alright gonna do the lods for the were-pyro than im gonna work on making it compatible with the foster's facade
Okay, following Eesha's suggestion. here's teh new bag front:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/FXQAM.png[/t]
I've never made any, well I guess you could call this signage, so any tips would be appreciated.
Edit: I feel like the white text might be a little too white so I may give it a slight reddish hue.
Crap I missed all of that.
[img]http://puu.sh/14RRM[/img]
I hope Valve will be able to do something, I don't really have the time or money to send a letter to San Francisco.
[img]http://puu.sh/14RKQ[/img]
What?
Another pyro head?
Aww man.
I haven't seen NOTLU stuff for Scout, besides that creepy exposed skull thing.
Can I get a link to all the Scout stuff, or a collection for it?
Surprised nobody has made a varsity jacket for Scout, yet.
[img]http://mountolympusawards.com/images/ds15prod.jpg[/img][img]http://mountolympusawards.com/images/ds18prod.jpg[/img]
Seems like NOTLU2 is going to be full of Pyro stuff...
[SUB][SUB][SUB][sp]Come one, guys, Pyro has enough stuff now, lets get to the other classes.[/sp][/SUB][/SUB][/SUB]
[QUOTE=Gen. Cornwaffle;37657662]Seems like NOTLU2 is going to be full of Pyro stuff...
[SUB][SUB][SUB][sp]Come one, guys, Pyro has enough stuff now, lets get to the other classes.[/sp][/SUB][/SUB][/SUB][/QUOTE]
I'd like to see a Hellboy Heavy set made.
Or a 'halloween trickster' scout.
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2867220/medusa_knife1.jpg[/img]
I was expecting the snakezzz to cover up the knife more, but I think I'd have to make more of them to do that. Or make them thicker, which might look silly. I know I need to improve that somehow; crits away please. The snakes are just splines for now; they'll be optimised and will receive proper heads later.
Oh, and it's this in case you don't know:
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/96692528/Medusa%20Knife.jpg[/img]
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