Major Update Speculation: V8: Rise of the Machines! - Games

Also I was playing on a Randomizer server and got the Botkiller knife, is it just me or does the mini robo heavy's jaw move up and down?

[QUOTE=Krakash;37320729]Also I was playing on a Randomizer server and got the Botkiller knife, is it just me or does the mini robo heavy's jaw move up and down?[/QUOTE] the jaw is jiggleboned

[QUOTE=Magikoopa24;37318340]I'm pretty sure the next step with MvM would be "Reverse MvM," basically having BLUmans attacking REDbot bases by carrying a bomb into their facility/carrier/etc. Of course, past that, your idea is pretty solid, though I don't know what would happen after the set number of waves reaches the end and that team fails (I have the feeling that being moved back a few rounds with that wave's amount of money and upgrades a simple idea). Also, fun fact, the page king of this page has quoted the page king of the previous page. (Also, quick question; why does Decoy have a top-down view under gallery? No other map seems to have this, and the only item that does would be teleporters. It's a project I'd like to see undertaking, but why Decoy?)[/QUOTE] i want a mode where you are the robots

[QUOTE=ironman17;37318120]Aye; having a fair bunch of updates for MvM, like having different objectives or new robots, that'd be awesome. Concerning MvM gamemodes, what could there be other than preventing the robots from planting a bomb? Perhaps there could be a mode where you push back, fighting your way into the Carrier Tanks to destroy the core or reactor or whatever to prevent it from firing a huge missile or death ray at the Mann Co base, and you'd have a set number of waves in which to destroy the Carrier, forcing a tough decision as to whether the mercs should rush in during early game whilst they're weak and hope for the best, or to gather the money for upgrades and start the assault during late game when they're powered up. Also, since regular MvM is kind of like tower defense, and a well-placed Sentry can make a big difference, the Engineer could very much require new Sentry-type buildables for different ways in which to take out the robots.[/QUOTE] For some reason I'd love to see Payload rejiggered as a MvM mode somehow. Hell, most of the attack/defend maps could probably be modified to work with MvM with little change.

[QUOTE=TonicBH;37321253]For some reason I'd love to see Payload rejiggered as a MvM mode somehow. Hell, most of the attack/defend maps could probably be modified to work with MvM with little change.[/QUOTE] Probably being the keyword and I'd say for the most part you wouldn't have a problem... but there are issues on some of the maps. Like, for example, you could possibly get the bomb into an area where you can't get to without having some kind of jump boost (double jump, sticky jump, sentry jump, etc) and kill the bot there, then the bomb is out of play with no way for the bots to get it. Since the bomb doesn't seem to be on a timer, it'll never respawn, and thus you could just keep destroying the enemies. I've been trying to find exploits like that on the current MVM maps.

Maybe those animations were for the community to use in order to make custom bots, eventually getting in in a future update. Just my two cents, though.

[QUOTE=Robmortar;37320784]i want a mode where you are the robots[/QUOTE] No, John, you are the robots. And then John booped.

Guys, what's up with these recent updates and particle effects? I just deleted everything then re-installed it and I'm still getting a massive wave of x's in my face when I shoot shotguns, whenever someone uses the Rainblower taunt (Rainblower fire particles are invisible as well), even when I just shoot pistols or revolvers. Anyone have a fix for this or maybe just some fixable reason it keeps happening? [editline]20th August 2012[/editline] Whoop-de-doo, awful pageking.

[QUOTE=TonicBH;37321253]For some reason I'd love to see Payload rejiggered as a MvM mode somehow. Hell, most of the attack/defend maps could probably be modified to work with MvM with little change.[/QUOTE] Attack/Defense maps in TFC did not have multiple control points. The offensive team's sole goal was to bring a flag from their spawn to the capture zone. If the flag were to be dropped, it would return to base if it goes untouched for long enough. TFC also had VIP/Civilian mode, where a team of escorts had to protect a relatively-unarmed civilian from a team of assassins as they move from point A to point B. Payload was TF2's way of recreating VIP mode but removed the problem caused by human error -- the cart moves in a static path and every player can push it. There won't be issues of the Civilian walking out when he shouldn't and not walking when he should. The cart being inanimate also alleviated the thing where that player getting himself killed meant the game was over. The checkpoints exist to keep the game paced, as part of TF2's core design. MvM revisits the attack/defense maps that TFC had. And they were spam central -- dustbowl was far far worse than the one that is in TF2. What was good about them being spam central was that players are fighting a bot horde, spam is perfectly okay and is encouraged, in fact. The sheer number of bots to kill allowed the mode to boast some difficulty compared to a 32-man attack/defense server where players don't actually travel in packs like the bots do. The ratio of defenders to attackers increases the difficulty as well, it makes it much more difficult to pull off than a pubstomp on dustbowl defense. Mix in some special bots, the giant bots, and the tanks and you have MvM. This noted, I don't think that the maps will be compatible with MvM unless they get a changed version that ensures that the bomb cannot get stuck on an elevated platform and things are widened to accommodate the giant bots and tanks. The MvM maps are designed in such a way that the bots can go along a couple different winding paths to reach the destination, most attack/defense maps do not offer that much of a winding path, so the bots would effectively have a straight shot to their destination. The winding paths allow a player who is at the front to make their way back to the spawn area to stop a bot if they take the most direct path -- the bots are certain to make a big S shape if you were to map their path -- in a linear map, there's no way to get yourself all the way back there in time unless you have that canteen or you get killed and spawn. While not a lot of people think about this, I would rather not have the current A/D maps get rigged to work in MvM due to these reasons; the TF team had a long time to think about this and balance it.

[thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/sentrybuster.jpg[/thumb] well don't that beat all they are headshootable

I remember when there were 20 posts per minute. You think you'd never miss it, but seeing one new post after an hour is a little sad....

[QUOTE=Hell-met;37323096][thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/sentrybuster.jpg[/thumb] well don't that beat all they are headshootable[/QUOTE] There are a few odd things I've noticed about the robot models, such as the medic robot having leg bones and the boss bots going into SFM in a smaller size. This says to me they didn't create new rigs for whatever reason. Maybe TF2 doesn't like new rigs or they just didn't want to bother the riggers with updating a free to play game. Oh shit, I figured it out, it's so they can use the same animations.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;37323096][thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/sentrybuster.jpg[/thumb] well don't that beat all they are headshootable[/QUOTE] Now we just need headshots on the tank and we're golden.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;37323129]I remember when there were 20 posts per minute. You think you'd never miss it, but seeing one new post after an hour is a little sad....[/QUOTE] Probably because there's nothing big happening right now, you'll see those kind of posts again when they make a new ARG or announce a new update.

[QUOTE=RoboChimp;37323313]There are a few odd things I've noticed about the robot models, such as the medic robot having leg bones and the boss bots going into SFM in a smaller size. This says to me they didn't create new rigs for whatever reason. Maybe TF2 doesn't like new rigs or they just didn't want to bother the riggers with updating a free to play game. Oh shit, I figured it out, it's so they can use the same animations.[/QUOTE] the models are "good enough" without requiring new rigging. The sentry buster having a head and arms is not really something you'd notice in the 10 seconds the bomb is on the field. Same for the Medic Bots, since the leg hitboxes just seem like you're hitting the back of his coat.

They REALLY don't want to mess with the core of tf2 at all.

Can you imagine the shitstorm if implementing mvm had broken core TF2? Especially on the first couple days, when no one could actually get in an mvm server.

ha, what if fixing the Sentry Buster's hitbox caused Demoman to lose his head and arm hitboxes also. Oh, that would have been funny

[QUOTE=Armisael;37324949]Can you imagine the shitstorm if implementing mvm had broken core TF2? Especially on the first couple days, when no one could actually get in an mvm server.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying they need to do that, but they can change a few things. They haven't really made any more changes than a mod team would. [editline]20th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=ned_ballad;37324622]the models are "good enough" without requiring new rigging. The sentry buster having a head and arms is not really something you'd notice in the 10 seconds the bomb is on the field. Same for the Medic Bots, since the leg hitboxes just seem like you're hitting the back of his coat.[/QUOTE] You can't deny it seems a little less than perfect. What I don't quite understand is how the giants work if their rigs are the same size the their normal sized counter parts.

[QUOTE=RoboChimp;37324995]I'm not saying they need to do that, but they can change a few things. They haven't really made any more changes than a mod team would. [editline]20th August 2012[/editline] You can't deny it seems a little less than perfect. What I don't quite understand is how the giants work if their rigs are the same size the their normal sized counter parts.[/QUOTE] The Giants (and th Sentry Buster too) are scaled up with scripts. you can actually scale normal bots up and down with the population files.

[QUOTE=RoboChimp;37324995] You can't deny it seems a little less than perfect. What I don't quite understand is how the giants work if their rigs are the same size the their normal sized counter parts.[/QUOTE] it's a pretty sophisticated script that does this, actually seems to be new for the Source engine

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37325160]it's a pretty sophisticated script that does this, actually seems to be new for the Source engine[/QUOTE] Scaling models up and down has never been a new thing in source, the episode 1 citadel core does that. The new thing in the engine is actually the scaling of hitboxes. (unless valve implemented it long time ago but never used it either)

[QUOTE=Skunkrocker;37321292]Since the bomb doesn't seem to be on a timer, it'll never respawn, and thus you could just keep destroying the enemies. [/QUOTE] Actually, the bomb has a timer similar to the intel one. If the robots touch the bomb, it resets, if they aren't allowed to for a certain length of time, it resets.

[QUOTE=ObiWonTwo;37325414]Actually, the bomb has a timer similar to the intel one. If the robots touch the bomb, it resets, if they aren't allowed to for a certain length of time, it resets.[/QUOTE] only on some missions (I think only endurance)

[QUOTE=papaya;37325493]only on some missions (I think only endurance)[/QUOTE] Ahh, well, that was the one where I stopped to really look at it, but I suppose you could just apply it to any other mission as well, and adjust the timer. Also, just adding ramps everywhere seems to work nicely.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;37323096][thumb]http://www.sourceop.com/hell-met/TF2/sentrybuster.jpg[/thumb] well don't that beat all they are headshootable[/QUOTE] Ohh, that explains why I headshotted the sentry buster with my hunstman.

After a weekend of playing MvM, all I can say is that I'm just so happy to have finally found a reason to use my Strange Quick-Fix. If you would've told me at the beginning of 2012 that Valve would introduce a gamemode where Demoknights could actually be a genuine asset to their team, and that I'd actually be more useful to my patients using the Quick-Fix than the regular Medigun, I would've spat in your face and called you a filthy liar.

[QUOTE=wunderufl;37325835]After a weekend of playing MvM, all I can say is that I'm just so happy to have finally found a reason to use my Strange Quick-Fix. If you would've told me at the beginning of 2012 that Valve would introduce a gamemode where Demoknights could actually be a genuine asset to their team, and that I'd actually be more useful to my patients using the Quick-Fix than the regular Medigun, I would've spat in your face and called you a filthy liar.[/QUOTE] From what I've seen, Kritz is more useful for hard rounds. It recharges near instantly, and lets you blow down tanks and giants so fast it's insane. I'm not sure about Demoknight, but explosive demo is one of the only ways to take out uber medics before they can deploy.

[QUOTE=ObiWonTwo;37325945]From what I've seen, Kritz is more useful for hard rounds. It recharges near instantly, and lets you blow down tanks and giants so fast it's insane. I'm not sure about Demoknight, but explosive demo is one of the only ways to take out uber medics before they can deploy.[/QUOTE] Sappers.

[QUOTE=ObiWonTwo;37325945]From what I've seen, Kritz is more useful for hard rounds. It recharges near instantly, and lets you blow down tanks and giants so fast it's insane. I'm not sure about Demoknight, but explosive demo is one of the only ways to take out uber medics before they can deploy.[/QUOTE] Quick-Fix upgraded to overheal, fast charge, and a couple shared Kritz Canteens makes you a real force to be reckoned with. You get the benefit of speeding around with Scouts and charging Demoknights, flying about with rocket jumpers, taking huge dents out of tanks and giants with Kritzed Heavys or Pyros, and keeping everyone superhealed with one Ubercharge after another. Oh, and you get to level up your Strange weapon without taking out a mortgage on your house to buy one (seriously. f*** you, Salvaged Crates)!