Major Update Speculation: V8: Rise of the Machines! - Games

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37410762]they won't be that rare. Their averaging about 500 a week right now, in another week they'll pass strange festives, and then beyond that who knows.[/QUOTE] Could one say all MvM items will cheapen to, say, craft hat levels or something close (I'm not good with trading conventions, so pardon if I'm completely wrong)? (I'm looking to get a U-clank-a at some point, and not needing to pay a crap ton of items or to play Mann Up a lot would be nice).

I'm no trader, but I think they'll probably level out at 2 or 3 refined for regular and a ton more for gold. Regular will never be a "cheap" weapon, but they'll probably end up around the same price, if not a little cheaper, than strange festives.

[QUOTE=Zeos;37410772]At least the festives aren't broken.[/QUOTE] FOR NOW.

I think more unreleased lines for the classes are in the files I was on a server that had a plugin which replaces classes by their robots counterparts. A robot Scout fired on a capture point, and said "Would you kindly move your ass on the point?" I never heard him say that, and it's not on the wiki.

-snip- I wrote it at 2 AM, it's OP, and I disagree with it too.

[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;37411775] -Sapper cannot be removed with a wrench[/QUOTE] Oh god no

[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;37411775]This isn't the best place to share this, but I like this thread more than the others. I recently came up with an idea for an explosive sapper: [B]Explosive Sapper[/B] - Drain time is wait time before detonation of sapper that destroys nearby buildings - Only one sapper can be placed at a time -Sapper cannot be removed with a wrench -Sapper [I]can[/I] be removed with the Homewrecker -Sapper is removed when the Spy is killed or when its Dead Ringer is activated. ^Feel free to suggest changes. It seems like some of these stats could be better off being separated into a different sapper.[/QUOTE] Over my dead body. Even thinking about it is a very bad idea.

[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;37411775]This isn't the best place to share this, but I like this thread more than the others. I recently came up with an idea for an explosive sapper: [B]Explosive Sapper[/B] - Drain time is wait time before detonation of sapper that destroys nearby buildings - Only one sapper can be placed at a time [B][I][U]-Sapper cannot be removed with a wrench[/U][/I][/B] -Sapper [I]can[/I] be removed with the Homewrecker -Sapper is removed when the Spy is killed or when its Dead Ringer is activated. ^Feel free to suggest changes. It seems like some of these stats could be better off being separated into a different sapper.[/QUOTE] [I][U]WHY.[/U][/I]

[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;37411775][U]-Sapper cannot be removed with a wrench[/U] [/QUOTE] This alone ruins the entire idea and honestly would make it CRAZY broken. The enemy would need to rely on having both a Pyro AND on the Pyro having a Homewrecker. The Spy could very easily not be using the DR and just cloak away with the stock or CaD.

an upgrade that speeds up taunting is all I want. something edible items, phlog and tauntkills would greatly benefit from

What I don't understand is why you can't upgrade the Disciplinary Action's speed increase duration and amount of people that are able to be affected at one time. Lots of items in the game have these really specific stats yet none of the them can be upgraded, it's almost always swing speed and then health on kill.

How about a sapper that cannot be broken? It sounds very broken, but if you make it not deal damage but instead just stun the building for a few seconds and have a recharge timer, it might work.

[QUOTE=Constructor;37412957]How about a sapper that cannot be broken? It sounds very broken..[/QUOTE] No, it doesn't.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/RHWxX.jpg[/img] As a(ingame)texan, I am appalled by all this talk. You are taking away my freedom of choice! When my building gets sapped I have the freedom to choose how to handle the situation. By making a sentry inoperable for an extended period of time despite any interaction on the part of the engineer you are making the constitution cry.

[QUOTE=Constructor;37412957]How about a sapper that cannot be broken? It sounds very broken, but if you make it not deal damage but instead just stun the building for a few seconds and have a recharge timer, it might work.[/QUOTE] Honestly, the idea of having a Sapper that can't be destroyed by Wrenches (or Pyro weapons, which should never have happened) makes it entirely a crutch Sapper, if not an overpowered one. You can already take on an Engineer nest by yourself through a few methods: 1) Sap the buildings and fight off the Engineer (Revolver or Knife). This is a simple method to pull off, but the fact that you have a Revolver that is generally weaker (even with the Enforcer) than the Shotgun and Wrench (which might have gotten a high crit chance from having the Sentry deal quite a considerable amount of damage in the past 20 seconds), possibly sided with a Pistol as a back-up. What outright can beat an Engineer, though, is the Knife, obviously because of the backstab, but that depends on how smart the Engineer is. If he decides to remove the sappers first, you're in the clear, but if not, you may either have to pull off a difficult backstab, or simply shoot/stab him to death. And then there's an unlikely scenario, when the Engineer is not even there. Well, the question is, why would he ever do that? Regardless of the reason, you're free to even [b]taunt kill[/b] a building (after simply starting to sap the Sentry, of course). 2) Backstab the Engineer and immediately sap the buildings. This is easier said than done, at least by doing it correctly. If you simply want to go kamikaze and let any nearby teammates finish the job, that's fine, but what if there are teammates who can't handle the buildings by themselves? This requires a bit of fast reflexes, and hoping that the Engineer doesn't even randomly turn around so that you only poke him, but if you manage to do it, it's actually a faster way of taking down an Engineer nest. This is obviously done much easier with Your Eternal Reward (assuming you have a disguise beforehand). (This is all assuming that there are no other enemies around, and [b]especially[/b] a Pyro, in which that case, you're having a death wish by going into said nest.) So even though it's not too easy to take down an Engineer nest with a nearby Engineer, it can be done. It'd just take all of the skill away if you had a Sapper that can't be destroyed, [b]even[/b] when it auto-destroys itself after a while.

[QUOTE=Damoman;37413478][img]http://i.imgur.com/RHWxX.jpg[/img] [/QUOTE] [t]http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg444/scaled.php?server=444&filename=wontsomeonepleasethinko.png&res=landing[/t] i know that feel, bro

Maybe engie's sounds sound weird because he is shouting in a few of them, which i can't remember him doing often in the original soundfiles.

I thought the wrecnh part was a bit of a stretch, but the point is that you have to kill the Spy to remove it. Keep in mind that I came up with that idea at 2 in the morning. I agree that it looks OP... I just put all of my ideas onto the same Post-It note...

I think the last thing TF2 needs right now are more crutch weapons. Sapper that can't be destroyed by wrenches would be in every spies loadout along side the enforcer and spycicle.

[QUOTE=Shinx;37415437]I think the last thing TF2 needs right now are more crutch weapons. Sapper that can't be destroyed by wrenches would be in every spies loadout along side the enforcer and spycicle.[/QUOTE] That, and the Red Tape Recorder still feels a little overpowered, we don't need more Sappers in the mix. I just thought of the idea while making a Facebook comment equating all of the TF classes to computer security factors

we always need more sappers

Sappers rigged with dynamite can be balanced. Just don't attach any stupidly-broken mechanics to it like being unable to remove it.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;37415583]Sappers rigged with dynamite can be balanced. Just don't attach any stupidly-broken mechanics to it like being unable to remove it.[/QUOTE] 2 AM-me thought: "Oh a sapper that can only be removed by killing the Spy is a challenging and clever game mechanic, I SAY.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37415544]we always need more sappers[/QUOTE] We need a new PDA before a new Sapper, and since the slot was added, we can guess that one is in the works at the moment.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;37415583]Sappers rigged with dynamite can be balanced. Just don't attach any stupidly-broken mechanics to it like being unable to remove it.[/QUOTE] At the same time, something tells me it will be pretty damn hard to balance a "Sapper" that only detonates after a certain time, and the hardest part has to be the time.

[QUOTE=AbeX300;37415712]At the same time, something tells me it will be pretty damn hard to balance a "Sapper" that only detonates after a certain time, and the hardest part has to be the time.[/QUOTE] Not necessarily. With times identical to the stock sapper, if it were to tick violently, it would alert every nearby enemy to his presence. It places the Spy at a larger risk to reap a higher reward of doing damage to nearby players. With explosives, it forces the Spy to disengage the Engineer before the building is destroyed or he risks blowing himself up in the chaos. Optimally, such a sapper would be best used for Stab + sap techniques and then abandoning the area because it becomes extremely dangerous when every enemy knows that you're there. In doing so, you can gank and Engineer and sap all of his gear, forcing everyone who is holed up in that nest (yourself included) to clear out or risk taking explosive damage.

[QUOTE=AbeX300;37415712]At the same time, something tells me it will be pretty damn hard to balance a "Sapper" that only detonates after a certain time, and the hardest part has to be the time.[/QUOTE] How about this for an explosive sapper: + Instantly destroys sentry after a set time (the normal time it takes for a sapper to destroy a sentry) + Gives no hud indication to the Engineer that the sentry is being sapped (still leaves a slightly less noisy ticking sapper on the sentry) - Deals no damage at all until the timer is activated This will make it a sneaker sapper, that is more useful for Engineers that are distracted with other things and that is generally harder to detect. However if removed, it will unlike the normal sapper not have caused any damage what so ever.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37415544]we always need more sappers[/QUOTE] yeah ones that GIVE points

[QUOTE=Rageguy;37415845]yeah ones that GIVE points[/QUOTE] And ones that aren't so broken when first released.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;37415793]Not necessarily. With times identical to the stock sapper, if it were to tick violently, it would alert every nearby enemy to his presence. It places the Spy at a larger risk to reap a higher reward of doing damage to nearby players. With explosives, it forces the Spy to disengage the Engineer before the building is destroyed or he risks blowing himself up in the chaos. Optimally, such a sapper would be best used for Stab + sap techniques and then abandoning the area because it becomes extremely dangerous when every enemy knows that you're there. In doing so, you can gank and Engineer and sap all of his gear, forcing everyone who is holed up in that nest (yourself included) to clear out or risk taking explosive damage.[/QUOTE] Thank you for channeling my 2 AM self and making sense out of what I was trying to say. And perhaps the sapper won't disable the sentry either, so it's almost like a Demoman-Sapper