Major Update Speculation: V8: Rise of the Machines! - Games

[QUOTE=AbeX300;37423388]Make it drain 1% UberCharge upon taunting. There, now you are no longer inclined to taunt.[/QUOTE] -No random critical hits

[QUOTE=AbeX300;37423388]Make it drain 1% UberCharge upon taunting. There, now you are no longer inclined to taunt.[/QUOTE] I'd also say that earning 0% Ubercharge by mass-healing rather than charging your Uber with your Medigun is enough of a downside. You lose out on quite a bit.

[QUOTE=noodleboy347;37423417]I'd also say that earning 0% Ubercharge by mass-healing rather than charging your Uber with your Medigun is enough of a downside. You lose out on quite a bit.[/QUOTE] You also earn 0% UberCharge with the Bonesaw. Minus the healing.

[QUOTE=noodleboy347;37423417]I'd also say that earning 0% Ubercharge by mass-healing rather than charging your Uber with your Medigun is enough of a downside. You lose out on quite a bit.[/QUOTE] That's not a downside :/ What's the third degrees downside? The fact you hit two people at once, rather than one? Is the solemn vow's downside the fact that the enemy's health might clutter your screen? No, it's neither of those, three weapons in the game have no downsides, it's not even an opinion, there's no downside coded in any of them or even listed anywhere...

Here's another comparison: the FaN effect vs the Amputator effect. [B]FaN Knockback[/B] + Knocks targets away, disorienting them. - Puts you at a distance from them, requiring you to run back over to them. [B]Amputator Taunt[/B] + Heals all targets around you - Leaves you completely still and vulnerable - Does not increase your Ubercharge EDIT: I see your point, there's no downsides because they're mental downsides, you can't write negative attributes on them because it's all mental, there's nothing to list.

Bringing the fan into this is really weird, because it has clearly labeled and clearly coded downsides...

I feel like those melees could kinda use a 10% melee vulnerability on draw or something to that effect like that way there's still a downside but one that doesn't really change it up too much

If you have to do mental gymnastics to rational a downside, it's not a real downside. The amputator has no downside, this isn't even an opinion. Use the amputation as a bone saw resin for all I care. But try to use the bone saw as an amputator reskin and see how well that works out

[QUOTE=noodleboy347;37423432]Here's another comparison: the FaN effect vs the Amputator effect. [B]FaN Knockback[/B] + Knocks targets away, disorienting them. - Puts you at a distance from them, requiring you to run back over to them. [B]Amputator Taunt[/B] + Heals all targets around you - Leaves you completely still and vulnerable - Does not increase your Ubercharge[/QUOTE] The Force-a-Nature has [b]actual[/b] downsides: You have to reload much more often (it also has a longer reload time), and it requires more bullets landed to do more damage. The Amputator has the exact same taunt as the Bonesaw, but with the ability to heal with it.

Nobody will win this argument.

Does a full demoknight set have no downside because it's not listed? The Amputator is a reverse taunt kill, it's gimmicky and not nearly as effective as a medic building uber. That's the downside.

An optional trick [B]isn't a downside.[/B] If you can equip the Amputator and [B]never taunt[/B], It'd be exactly like the Bonesaw. Exactly! If you deciced to neve use it's feature move, it would not make a difference whatsoever. The amputator needs a downside to compliment it's upside; -20% Weapom Switch Sped, or something to that effect.

[QUOTE=krutomisi;37423457]I feel like those melees could kinda use a 10% melee vulnerability or something to that effect like that way there's still a downside but one that doesn't really change it up too much[/QUOTE] Maybe -15% speed so the Medic's speed is equivalent to the Demoman, but slower than Pyro, Engy,Sniper, and Spy?

[QUOTE=NateDude;37423478]An optional trick [B]isn't a downside.[/B] If you can equip the Amputator and [B]never taunt[/B], It'd be exactly like the Bonesaw. Exactly! If you deciced to neve use it's feature move, it would not make a difference whatsoever. The amputator needs a downside to compliment it's upside; -20% Weapom Switch Sped, or something to that effect.[/QUOTE] Or, like I've suggested, a damage penalty, or turn critical damage into mini-crit. I mean it's not like you use the Bonesaw to fight, [b]right[/b]?

[QUOTE=Yukoviz;37423473]Does a full demoknight set have no downside because it's not listed?[/QUOTE] all downsides of demo knight are documented. It's listed very plainly as a downside for the targe on the promo page that losing the sticky launcher is a downside. It's not on the weapon itself, but it was noted on the update page for the targe. All relevant swords have plainly labeled downsides on top of that. This is a bad example [editline]27th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=NateDude;37423478]An optional trick [B]isn't a downside.[/B] If you can equip the Amputator and [B]never taunt[/B], It'd be exactly like the Bonesaw. Exactly! If you deciced to neve use it's feature move, it would not make a difference whatsoever. The amputator needs a downside to compliment it's upside; -20% Weapom Switch Sped, or something to that effect.[/QUOTE] I wonder if a 5% loss in speed would be too harsh of a downside. Still slightly faster than most classes, but slower than regular medics

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37423488]All relevant swords have plainly labeled downsides on top of that.[/QUOTE] [I]especially the golf club[/I]

I'm not saying it's not a straight upgrade, it definitely is, but it's not completely without downsides.Being completely vulnerable and rather ineffective is still a downside. Nerfing it at all would make it a complete crutch.

[QUOTE=krutomisi;37423506][I]especially the golf club[/I][/QUOTE] Now that I think about it, [b]why doesn't it say anything about being able to take heads[/b]? [QUOTE=Yukoviz;37423507]Alright, granted, but being completely vulnerable and rather ineffective is still a downside. Nerfing it at all would make it a complete crutch.[/QUOTE] How does nerfing it make it a crutch?

[QUOTE=Yukoviz;37423507]Alright, granted, but being completely vulnerable and rather ineffective is still a downside. Nerfing it at all would make it a complete crutch.[/QUOTE] The very nature of any taunt in the game is not a valid weapon downside

Okay think of it this way: remove the damage reduction on the scorch shot and make it so you have to taunt to fire it. Is that a nerf or buff?

I would say the sharp dresser is a straight downgrade though cause it lacks a fence kill (but it looks cool so yeah)

[QUOTE=Yukoviz;37423535]Okay think of it this way: remove the damage reduction on the scorch shot and make it so you have to taunt to fire it. Is that a nerf or buff?[/QUOTE] Both, though the scale tips toward nerf. You at least can do the same damage as a Flare Gun, now, but having to do a stationary, lengthy taunt in order to shoot outweighs the damage buff.

Ugh, the fact you can't fire without taunting is not at all even similar to the amputator. The amputator when used as a bone saw reskin does not have any effect on the player at all or even how the weapon is used.

Major Amputator Speculation Thread.

[QUOTE=Archimedes;37423559]Major Amputator Speculation Thread.[/QUOTE] On the next edition: Major Solemn Vow Speculation Thread

Two threads ago we spent a good 4 pages arguing about the exact same thing, except it was the rainblower and whether it was a reskin or not. A least that weapon has actual listed downsides heh

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37423584]Two threads ago we spent a good 4 pages arguing about the exact same thing, except it was the rainblower and whether it was a reskin or not. A least that weapon has actual listed downsides heh[/QUOTE] Actually, the Rainblower's taunt has downsides, considering that it's entirely different from the regular Flamethrower's. 1) It's lengthier. 2) It's very visible, and the music is [b]very[/b] distinguishable (especially when not in Pyroland).

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37423555]Ugh, the fact you can't fire without taunting is not at all even similar to the amputator. The amputator when used as a bone saw reskin does not have any effect on the player at all or even how the weapon is used.[/QUOTE] I didn't disagree on the idea that it's a straight upgrade. I understand that there is no downside to carrying it around. My point is that the [B]taunt[/B] has its downsides. You are putting yourself at risk and often, building up uber is the better choice. It's extremely situational and not OP in the slightest, nerfing it would make it a complete crutch. A gimmicky taunt is barely an upside.

The thing about the Amputator is that the taunt is indeed useful. Have you ever taunted behind a wall to save multiple patients from dying due to a Pyro ambush? Multiple patients that you can't heal with a single Medigun. The Amputator taunt does have a more favorable use than the Bonesaw.

[QUOTE=lilguy;37423622]The thing about the Amputator is that the taunt is indeed useful. Have you ever taunted behind a wall to save multiple patients from dying due to a Pyro ambush? Multiple patients that you can't heal with a single Medigun. The Amputator taunt does have a more favorable use than the Bonesaw.[/QUOTE] Wait, [b]it can heal through walls[/b]? God damn, less reasons to use the Bonesaw. Though, not more reasons to use the Amputator, that's actually Valve's fault for even allowing such a glitch to exist... At least, I hope that's a glitch. Then again, it's Valve's fault for not even including a downside to the Amputator in the first place.