Major Update Speculation: V8: Rise of the Machines! - Games

To compound on what I said earlier, there is still an unfair advantage in the Amputator over the Bonesaw considering that it took the bonesaw's useless taunt and gave it a use. The Third Degree is far too situational and no one even uses it anymore The solemn vow? I'd say the downside is that there's only one mediocre upside that doesn't really help you all that much, being a medic and all.

[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;37424112]To compound on what I said earlier, there is still an unfair advantage in the Amputator over the Bonesaw considering that it took the bonesaw's useless taunt and gave it a use. The Third Degree is far too situational and no one even uses it anymore The solemn vow? I'd say the downside is that there's only one mediocre upside that doesn't really help you all that much, being a medic and all.[/QUOTE] It still has an upside over the regular Bonesaw. And with some communication (this makes playing Medic MUCH more fun) the Solemn Vow is pretty good.

[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;37424144]Solemn Vow and Amputator should both have a 10% damage penalty. No more and no less, and by god, no "no random critical hits". And Übersaw should be nerfed in some clever way.[/QUOTE] Shhhh... It's been around so long that Valve forgot about it... Don't make this into another Equalizer contreversy...

[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;37424166]Shhhh... It's been around so long that Valve forgot about it... Don't make this into another Equalizer contreversy...[/QUOTE] But that needed to happen.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;37424180]But that needed to happen.[/QUOTE] *gently starts petting TectoIomrov's head* (In a higher-pitched voice): No, Lord Robin knows exactly what he's doing all of the time, don't question him. He is the epitome of what a developer should be... *stops being absurdly terrifying* Yeah, but it was unexpected and made everyone feel scared and stupid.

[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;37424214]*gently starts petting TectoIomrov's head* (In a higher-pitched voice): No, Lord Robin knows exactly what he's doing all of the time, don't question him. He is the epitome of what a developer should be... *stops being absurdly terrifying* Yeah, but it was unexpected and made everyone feel scared and stupid.[/QUOTE] Wasn't it in the Beta though?

[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;37424112]To compound on what I said earlier, there is still an unfair advantage in the Amputator over the Bonesaw considering that it took the bonesaw's useless taunt and gave it a use. The Third Degree is far too situational and no one even uses it anymore The solemn vow? I'd say the downside is that there's only one mediocre upside that doesn't really help you all that much, being a medic and all.[/QUOTE] But is it really an upgrade if the use it gives the taunt has both an upside and a downside?

[QUOTE=noodleboy347;37424544]But is it really an upgrade if the use it gives the taunt has both an upside and a downside?[/QUOTE] Yes.

[QUOTE=noodleboy347;37424544]But is it really an upgrade if the use it gives the taunt has both an upside and a downside?[/QUOTE] Here's a weapon Now here's that same weapon with an optional ability attached. The ability has upsides and downsides. =/= the weapon has upsides and downsides. The ability has upsides and downsides. = the weapon has an upside

soon people will want to nerf the holy mackerel because "OMG GUYS IT GIVES OFF DEAD RINGER SPYS!!!"

[QUOTE=Dr_Aquaphre5h;37424693]soon people will want to nerf the holy mackerel because "OMG GUYS IT GIVES OFF DEAD RINGER SPYS!!!"[/QUOTE] That's more of an oversight when creating the kill feed humiliation notice than it is intentional. Feign deaths always have had poor interactions with on-hit and on-kill things, this is just one of the ones that has not gotten fixed yet.

[QUOTE=Dr_Aquaphre5h;37424693]soon people will want to nerf the holy mackerel because "OMG GUYS IT GIVES OFF DEAD RINGER SPYS!!!"[/QUOTE] nerf original pls

[QUOTE=Dr_Aquaphre5h;37424693]soon people will want to nerf the holy mackerel because "OMG GUYS IT GIVES OFF DEAD RINGER SPYS!!!"[/QUOTE] I just think the holy mackeral was like the laziest fucking thing ever it's one of those reskins that looks way stupider than the actual weapon, no advantages to using it

[video=youtube;TpLxpwDZhBQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpLxpwDZhBQ&list=UUPd3_ljdxr_2lFLz9_Zx-PQ&index=0&feature=plcp[/video] So THAT'S why Mad Milk isn't milk!

[QUOTE=01271;37424684]Here's a weapon Now here's that same weapon with an optional ability attached. The ability has upsides and downsides. =/= the weapon has upsides and downsides. The ability has upsides and downsides. = the weapon has an upside[/QUOTE] [B]Weapon A[/B] - Has an ability that causes you to stand still for 4 seconds. Would you use this weapon? No, I'd rather stick with the stock weapon that doesn't have this ability. [B]Weapon B[/B] - Has an ability that heals everyone around you. Would you use this weapon? Yes, of course I would, there are no downsides. And if those were combined into one weapon (the Amputator): [B]Weapon C[/B] - Has an ability that causes you to stand still for 4 seconds while healing everyone around you. You now have the option to use this weapon's ability to stand still and defenseless for 4 seconds, but it also heals everyone around you. Now let's say you use this weapon's ability on a Control Point with a bunch of wounded teammates. Unfortunately, because you're completely vulnerable, a Sniper headshots you. If you used the stock Bonesaw, you'd still be alive because you wouldn't have a reason to taunt, and you'd be mobile and less likely to be headshotted. On the other hand, maybe there isn't a Sniper and you heal your teammates. Everything works out perfectly. If you had the stock Bonesaw, nothing would be different, even if you taunted. I'm sorry, this is hard to explain, essentially what I'm saying is just because the Amputator gives you the OPTION to use its ability makes it sound like a straight upgrade; I understand that part. Unfortunately you're more inclined to actually use this ability, and due to that, more likely to be Sniped or shot while you're vulnerable and standing still. Its downside is psychological, not technical. Meanwhile the Solemn Vow, for example, has an upside with no downside, however the ability it gives you couldn't really possibly cause you any actual damage. So yes, that would be an upgrade. Though I'm going to get off this topic after this post as this is Major Update Speculation and not the weapon balance thread, if that thread is still even around.

I want a sapper that turns the sentry into a spybot until the engineer lands 2 wrench hits or until it's killed. And the spybot stays as a sentry disguise until someone turns his back to it.

The amputator has no downsides, stop it. Having the option to taunt heal is better than not having that option, it's about restraint and timing. It's like saying the luger's downside is that you keep using it when you should be using your primary because "wow it's a luger!" I think there's much worse unlocks than melees with a gimmick. Take the southern hospitality, it cripples spies but it does full damage, the downside is a 20% fire damage vunerability which means nothing, really what it should be is a damage nerf like the tribal shiv, you exchange some damage for compromising spies and dealing damage over time.

Literally the ONLY reason I EVER use the Amputator (along with most people) is for the Medieval set because the Vita-Saw is banned in Season 8 this year ;A; Valve created the set with Medieval mode in mind, because you are medigun-less and you have to find other ways to heal. The taunt is only a gimmick, almost nobody uses it, only in dire situations and waiting for a teleporter to charge up. Removing random crits would take the limited fun out of playing in pub servers, but makes no difference in lobbies or UGC games, as there are no random crits there anyway. What if we gave a big buff to the Medic and gave him the ability to taunt with the bonesaw to heal and make the Amputator just a reskin, and this is the big part, give the Medic the ability to see enemy health like the Solemn Vow and the Spy. Give the Solemn Vow completely NEW stats, like this. Solemn Vow Level 10 Bust of Hippocrates +Using alt-fire transfers charge to friendly Medics (takes 8 seconds to fully drain, needle comes out of the bottom) -40% damage nerf This would make the Quick-fix a lot more viable to use when multiple Medics are on the team, which makes you some kind of Medical assistant than a real Doktor.

I wonder if the Halloween update will be like mvm but with spooky scary things instead

[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;37424144]Solemn Vow and Amputator should both have a 10% damage penalty. No more and no less, and by god, no "no random critical hits". And Übersaw should be nerfed in some clever way.[/QUOTE] Make Spies see Medics highlighted through walls like robot bombcarriers while having the Solemn Vow out. A melee weapon that steals Spy's ability to see enemy health with the downside of alerting all nearby enemy Spies of your presence.

[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;37426314]Everyone is expecting that, which is why Valve will do something completely different.[/QUOTE] Binoculus.

Well, you could give the Amputator a slightly slower swing speed (like ubersaw) or a tiny damage penalty, that would be a good downside. Speaking of needed changes to differentiate stock melee weapons, the Escape Plan needs to do less damage, it's a complete upgrade to the shovel still. Make it do damage like how much the Equalizer does at full health, but at all times. And maybe make the Market Gardener do less damage if it's not a rocket jump crit. To balance that, make it so that if you started the swing of the Market Gardener in the air that there's a grace period where if it wasn't swung that close to the ground you'll still get the crit when you land, cause it's frustrating to land on somebody's head and not get the crit. Also, make the Third Degree not do as much damage if it's not hitting multiple people at once. there, now the bonesaw, shovel and fire axe have some use, if only a little.

Since the amputator only has an upside on taunt, logic dictates it should have a downside on taunt therefore: Amputator: +AoE heal on taunt +50% damage from all sources while taunting Y/N?

[QUOTE=HazzaHardie;37426302]I wonder if the Halloween update will be like mvm but with spooky scary things instead[/QUOTE] I hope, but I think we'll probablly be getting something that involves Halloween vision. No one could have predicted monoculus, so it's difficult to speculate what the new spooky boss will be.

[QUOTE=Scarabix;37426771]Since the amputator only has an upside on taunt, logic dictates it should have a downside on taunt therefore: Amputator: +AoE heal on taunt +50% damage from all sources while taunting Y/N?[/QUOTE] That could work.

Sounds good to me.

slower swing speed is always a cheap and "safe" melee downside, that'd work easily on the Solemn Vow. Amputator could not crit. Considering it's a Medieval weapon, the lack of crits hurts more than you think. Third Degree could... ehh... the weapon, even being an upgrade, is still pretty bad. Any downside to this and it'll probably just be trashed, so I think it needs a buff and a nerf at the same time.

The Amputator isn't balanced simply because it removes all reason to use the bonesaw. Who would want to use the bonesaw when there's a completely identical weapon that lets you heal people around you via a taunt? Considering that all taunts have such vulnerability involved, that isn't balance enough for the Amputator because it's essentially the same as if you taunted with the bonesaw, but now it's healing people. But no one uses the Amputator because, despite the upgrade having no downsides, it's not really that great of an upgrade, and there's other saws that are much more useful.

[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;37426983] But no one uses the Amputator because, despite the upgrade having no downsides, it's not really that great of an upgrade, and there's other saws that are much more useful.[/QUOTE] loads of people use the Amputator, a third of those who own it. Other weapons equipped by a third of those who own it: Kritzkreig and all Medic Primaries. It's the second most equipped bonesaw in the game, not actually that far under the Ubersaw (half of those who own it equip it).

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37427011]loads of people use the Amputator, a third of those who own it. Other weapons equipped by a third of those who own it: Kritzkreig and all Medic Primaries. It's the second most equipped bonesaw in the game, not actually that far under the Ubersaw (half of those who own it equip it).[/QUOTE] All them damn statisticals...