Major Update Speculation: V8: Rise of the Machines! - Games

[QUOTE=DatWut?;37429887]You know, I once posted an idea for a good re-baancing of the Medic melee weapons, people seemed to like those.[/QUOTE] You could always post that for the benefit of those who don't know what you're talking about. I personally would love to hear it.

[QUOTE=Folseh;37429929]Quick question: "Why are we comparing the Amputator to the Bonesaw" I barely see folks using the Amp's taunt outside of Medieval mode, if anything they tend to have the Amp and the crossbow to get the 1+ health per second and heal at a longer range towards teammates.[/QUOTE] Simply because an Amputator has an additional ability that the Bonesaw doesn't. Same thing can be said for the Solemn Vow and Third Degree. [b]Edit:[/b] I find it absolutely terrifying that I was the one who even started this debate. [QUOTE=AbeX300;37422985][QUOTE=ned_ballad;37422971]Amputator could use a custom taunt sound[/QUOTE] And a downside.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=AbeX300;37429856]How is the Bonesaw's taunt [b]BETTER[/b] than the Amputator's taunt? They are both almost the exact same thing, the only difference being that the Amputator's taunt [b]heals[/b], and the Bonesaw doesn't.[/QUOTE] Sorry, i read that wrong

The Solemn Vow should make your health visible to enemies. The Third Degree transfer damage to anything connected to you by healing beams; or have some damage/swing speed penalty. The Amputator? Make it have an unique taunt, that makes you far more visible, lasts longer than the vanilla taunt (but heals the same ammount of health) AND makes the Medic take minicrits while taunting. It works like the bonesaw, but has an additional feature that can benefit the team but compromises his own integrity. Or, keeping the unique taunt, make its ubercharge rate slower if it has the Amputator in his loadout. It is a weapon that HAS to be superior to any other melee option in situations where you can't use your Medigun.

They just should give the amputator a +10% bullet damage taken attribute, then it will have no downsides in its intended gamemode but at the same time it wouldn't be a straight upgrade in normal gamelay either.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;37430009]The Amputator? Make it have an unique taunt, that makes you far more visible, lasts longer than the vanilla taunt (but heals the same ammount of health) AND makes the Medic take minicrits while taunting. It works like the bonesaw, but has an additional feature that can benefit the team but compromises his own integrity.[/QUOTE] You mean like the Rainblower's taunt? I'll take it. [QUOTE=WhatANiceName;37430023]They just should give the amputator a +10% bullet damage taken attribute, then it will have no downsides in its intended gamemode but at the same time it wouldn't be a straight upgrade in normal gamelay either.[/QUOTE] I would post a video response that basically says "[b]FUCKING GENIUS![/b]", but I don't think such a thing would be allowed on FacePunch.

[QUOTE=WhatANiceName;37430023]They just should give the amputator a +10% bullet damage taken attribute, then it will have no downsides in its intended gamemode but at the same time it wouldn't be a straight upgrade in normal gamelay either.[/QUOTE] Just perfect.

[QUOTE=WhatANiceName;37430023]They just should give the amputator a +10% bullet damage taken attribute, then it will have no downsides in its intended gamemode but at the same time it wouldn't be a straight upgrade in normal gamelay either.[/QUOTE] Wait, it can be used in normal gameplay? I just take my ubersaw and shove them sweet 195 crits on the face of spies. I've even taken several giant robots with it.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;37430056]Wait, it can be used in normal gameplay? I just take my ubersaw and shove them sweet 195 crits on the face of spies. I've even taken several giant robots with it.[/QUOTE] the problem is...who actually uses the amp without the crossbow outside of medieval?

[QUOTE=lilgamefreek;37429931]You could always post that for the benefit of those who don't know what you're talking about. I personally would love to hear it.[/QUOTE] Actually wanted to find the post, but then forgot. Now I actually did search for it: The "see enemy health" should become a base stat. Remove it on the Übersaw and the Amputator. Give the Solem Vow the ability to transfer your Übercharge to another Medic. Also give it a damage penalty so it's not a straight upgrade compared to the bonesaw ("Do no harm"). Cngratulations, you also have given the Quick-Fix a really valid buff and a good use when used with the Solem Vow.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;37430290]Actually wanted to find the post, but then forgot. Now I actually did search for it: The "see enemy health" should become a base stat. Remove it on the Übersaw and the Amputator. Give the Solem Vow the ability to transfer your Übercharge to another Medic. Also give it a damage penalty so it's not a straight upgrade compared to the bonesaw ("Do no harm"). Cngratulations, you also have given the Quick-Fix a really valid buff and a good use when used with the Solem Vow.[/QUOTE] That settles it! [sp]But we still have the Third Degree, but that shouldn't be hard to balance at all.[/sp]

[QUOTE=AbeX300;37430335]That settles it! [sp]But we still have the Third Degree, but that shouldn't be hard to balance at all.[/sp][/QUOTE] While quipped: Your heal target takes damage when you are being attacked. Basically the updsie is also the downside. And you don't even need to have the melee out for that to apply. Makes the Pyro somewhat of a "lone gun", sort of like the Backscracther does.

I still don't see them changing the basic function of an item (Solemn Vow). I have to disagree with that proposal. Make enemies able to see your health (and Uber percentage, maybe) if you have it equiped. Balanced.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;37430405]While quipped: Your heal target takes damage when you are being attacked. Basically the updsie is also the downside. And you don't even need to have the melee out for that to apply. Makes the Pyro somewhat of a "lone gun", sort of like the Backscracther does.[/QUOTE] Now that is an idea I strongly disagree with, considering the amount of grief it can cause. I'd say maybe make it have a -35% damage penalty on healing Medics, but does critical damage on overhealed players? [b]Edit:[/b] And no random critical hits, considering that melee weapons do have a high crit rate...

[QUOTE=DatWut?;37430290]Actually wanted to find the post, but then forgot. Now I actually did search for it: The "see enemy health" should become a base stat. Remove it on the Übersaw and the Amputator. Give the Solem Vow the ability to transfer your Übercharge to another Medic. Also give it a damage penalty so it's not a straight upgrade compared to the bonesaw ("Do no harm"). Cngratulations, you also have given the Quick-Fix a really valid buff and a good use when used with the Solem Vow.[/QUOTE] you mean this? [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1205459&p=37426105&viewfull=1#post37426105[/url]

[QUOTE=mphayes97;37430691]you mean this? [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1205459&p=37426105&viewfull=1#post37426105[/url][/QUOTE] [URL=http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1202184&p=37032334&viewfull=1#post37032334]This, actually.[/URL]

Personally think they should have left the equalizer alone. The only issue it had was that it could crit which was overkill. It was a fun unlock, the speed and damage worked well together to make it worth trying to melee people with low health as a last ditch effort to win a fight. It had legitimate downsides, sure they were negligible for the upsides, but a true upgrade should leave you no reasons to use the stock. You had to lose 96 health to even match the shovels damage, and be at 54 health to match it's minicrit damage. That's a downside, it's a trade off! Then there's the speed, this makes soldier less tedious to play and more mobile to grab health packs or find cover, doesn't put potential attackers at a huge disadvantage either, if anything it tells them the soldier is an easy kill. Healing being blocked doesn't matter so much when you have your shotty for back up, but when you've got a passive secondary like the buff banner, that melee comes in handy. You might not have time to reload, or have ammo while being pocketed or ubered, you no longer have your reliable melee in this situation. Whenever I don't equip the shotty, I go for a different melee so I wont be a tight spot if I need to melee why being healed. So no, while it is was by far a better choice than any other melee, it had downsides and trade offs. It's annoying when they listen to the wrong people, now we have a nerfed equalizer that gives you speed, and one that I see little point in using at all. So while the equalizer needed splitting aparrently the mentioned weapons with literally no downsides are fine. The southern hospitality is fine, you know a weapon that's actually irritating to play against as spy, with no real downside but a substantial upside.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;37430770][URL=http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1202184&p=37032334&viewfull=1#post37032334]This, actually.[/URL][/QUOTE] I miss that thread.

[QUOTE=slapdown3;37430801]I miss that thread.[/QUOTE] Why not continue using it? Ah great, another horrible pageking. Well, I don't want to talk about my ideas on how to improve Xbox Live and how to bring the current TF2 into 360.

[QUOTE=JohnnyGoGo;37430775]Personally think they should have left the equalizer alone. The only issue it had was that it could crit which was overkill. It was a fun unlock, the speed and damage worked well together to make it worth trying to melee people with low health as a last ditch effort to win a fight. It had legitimate downsides, sure they were negligible for the upsides, but a true upgrade should leave you no reasons to use the stock. You had to lose 96 health to even match the shovels damage, and be at 54 health to match it's minicrit damage. That's a downside, it's a trade off! Then there's the speed, this makes soldier less tedious to play and more mobile to grab health packs or find cover, doesn't put potential attackers at a huge disadvantage either, if anything it tells them the soldier is an easy kill. Healing being blocked doesn't matter so much when you have your shotty for back up, but when you've got a passive secondary like the buff banner, that melee comes in handy. You might not have time to reload, or have ammo while being pocketed or ubered, you no longer have your reliable melee in this situation. Whenever I don't equip the shotty, I go for a different melee so I wont be a tight spot if I need to melee why being healed. So no, while it is was by far a better choice than any other melee, it had downsides and trade offs. It's annoying when they listen to the wrong people, now we have a nerfed equalizer that gives you speed, and one that I see little point in using at all. So while the equalizer needed splitting aparrently the mentioned weapons with literally no downsides are fine. The southern hospitality is fine, you know a weapon that's actually irritating to play against as spy, with no real downside but a substantial upside.[/QUOTE] Equalizer nerf was quite welcome. It was annoying to take down a Soldier to < 50HP only for him to take out his melee and then mow me down. I think the Escape plan should be nerfed though, damage wise. It should deal the same base damage as the Equalizer.

[QUOTE=Damian0358;37430814]Well, I don't want to talk about my ideas on how to improve Xbox Live and how to bring the current TF2 into 360.[/QUOTE] A streamlined release would be cool. But hadn't valve ceased updating the game because of a mix of Microsofts draconian update policies and Xbox hard-drive space issues?

[QUOTE=Archimedes;37430855]A streamlined release would be cool. But hadn't valve ceased updating the game because of a mix of Microsofts draconian update policies and Xbox hard-drive space issues?[/QUOTE] Well, they could not include the promos that are in the PC version. Or have every hat until the Classless Update.

[QUOTE=Folseh;37430129]the problem is...who actually uses the amp without the crossbow outside of medieval?[/QUOTE] I do. They're great. The bonus is awesome, too. The crossbow is a very viable weapon and I don't like the ubersaw. I also have the hat for it.

[QUOTE=JohnnyGoGo;37430775]Personally think they should have left the equalizer alone. The only issue it had was that it could crit which was overkill. It was a fun unlock, the speed and damage worked well together to make it worth trying to melee people with low health as a last ditch effort to win a fight. It had legitimate downsides, sure they were negligible for the upsides, but a true upgrade should leave you no reasons to use the stock. You had to lose 96 health to even match the shovels damage, and be at 54 health to match it's minicrit damage. That's a downside, it's a trade off! Then there's the speed, this makes soldier less tedious to play and more mobile to grab health packs or find cover, doesn't put potential attackers at a huge disadvantage either, if anything it tells them the soldier is an easy kill. Healing being blocked doesn't matter so much when you have your shotty for back up, but when you've got a passive secondary like the buff banner, that melee comes in handy. You might not have time to reload, or have ammo while being pocketed or ubered, you no longer have your reliable melee in this situation. Whenever I don't equip the shotty, I go for a different melee so I wont be a tight spot if I need to melee why being healed. So no, while it is was by far a better choice than any other melee, it had downsides and trade offs. It's annoying when they listen to the wrong people, now we have a nerfed equalizer that gives you speed, and one that I see little point in using at all. So while the equalizer needed splitting aparrently the mentioned weapons with literally no downsides are fine. The southern hospitality is fine, you know a weapon that's actually irritating to play against as spy, with no real downside but a substantial upside.[/QUOTE] i miss 1-shotting heavies with crit equalizer swings

Why is nearly every weapon based on a single playstyle for each class? The Class Updates were slowly and carefully considered for altering the way a class works, to the point where you could say that, aside from the heavy, everybody was split into two different sub-classes: bow snipers, backpack soldiers, gunslinger engies, demoknights, death-feigning spies, kritz medics, and even (in my opinion) flaregun/finisher pyros and baseball scouts. But if you wanna play as a certain type, you just have to hope you're the style that Valve cares about. You could argue that stuff like the Huntsman and Dead Ringer are just one-offs, but they change the mechanics of the class. Most folks who are committed to that style are stuck. Off the top of my head, only the Reserve Shooter, Loch-n-Load, and Wrap Assassin have offered anything for the neglected sub-classes. Maybe it's time they got their due.

[QUOTE=Robmortar;37430994]i miss 1-shotting heavies with crit equalizer swings[/QUOTE] Yeah, it was such a tasty bitchslap for any fool trying to meele you down.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;37430455] Make enemies able to see your health (and Uber percentage, maybe) if you have it equiped. Balanced.[/QUOTE] oh that's devilish. I like this one, actually really balanced that way.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;37430834]Equalizer nerf was quite welcome. It was annoying to take down a Soldier to < 50HP only for him to take out his melee and then mow me down. I think the Escape plan should be nerfed though, damage wise. It should deal the same base damage as the Equalizer.[/QUOTE] I can think of a good list of annoying weapons that can screw you over during a fight, but that doesn't mean they deserve to nerfed. It wasn't overpowered (besides the crits, but crits are bullshit anyway) and it wasn't a straight upgrade.

It was pretty blatantly overpowered. The thing was, everybody used it, so you always knew what to expect. Also, based somewhat on what I had been saying earlier, I think the Neon Annihilator should have done criticals against burning players as well, with some passive drawback thrown in. Similar goes for any weapon whose main drawback is "not the other weapon"

The Escape Plan should have a 50% damage penalty; so it does the same damage as full health Equalizer; otherwise you run around swinging 195 crits. The Neon Annihilator's penalty should be the swing speed rather than the damage. In fact, swing speed makes an awesome penalty; taking bulky classes down becomes much harder.