Major Update Speculation: V8: Rise of the Machines! - Games

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37698517]suddenly those hats become the new gibus![/QUOTE] Doesn't matter, their whole appeal is the set bonus, and playing mindgames via feigning set bonuses.

I think it would be too irritating for the set hats to be that common, in small doses they're fine, but to have loads of new players as saharan spies, croc snipers and gasjockey pyros it would become pretty annoying. If people really want a set hat because they're interested in the playstyle they'll get it through crafting, the store, or trading.

[QUOTE=JohnnyGoGo;37699307]I think it would be too irritating for the set hats to be that common, in small doses they're fine, but to have loads of new players as saharan spies, croc snipers and gasjockey pyros it would become pretty annoying. If people really want a set hat because they're interested in the playstyle they'll get it through crafting, the store, or trading.[/QUOTE] Part of the TF philosophy is that gameplay-altering mechanics are not to be restricted from any player. It's the reason why maps are free and items with stats can be obtained at no cost. It's part of the reason why there was a large shitstorm when the Mann Conomy update hit and there was no reliable way to get the set hats without outright purchasing them.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;37699336]there was no reliable way to get the set hats without outright purchasing them.[/QUOTE] Crafting recipes. And don't try to tell me that using 4 refined and a weapon is less reliable than spending 20 bucks (I think they cost that much when they were released, not sure though).

[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;37699473]Crafting recipes. And don't try to tell me that using 4 refined and a weapon is less reliable than spending 20 bucks (I think they cost that much when they were released, not sure though).[/QUOTE] Crafting recipes weren't added until [i]after[/i] an enormous community demand for them to be made more readily-available...2 weeks after they were added.

I really don't ever see them ever making it possible to get community contributed items via achievements. ...although I say that, but one of the best selling weapons in the game is the Huntsman...

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37699979]I really don't ever see them ever making it possible to get community contributed items via achievements. ...although I say that, but one of the best selling weapons in the game is the Huntsman...[/QUOTE] My theory is that the Huntsman requires less precision, and is more efficient in close-combat, than the Sniper Rifle. Since people want to play as Sniper, but at the same time don't want to try to acquire as much skill as with a Sniper Rifle, they go ahead and buy the Huntsman, right away. I don't know, I could be entirely wrong.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;37699522]Crafting recipes weren't added until [i]after[/i] an enormous community demand for them to be made more readily-available...2 weeks after they were added.[/QUOTE] Really? Well that's bullshit.

at this point they could probably take the hats from the sets and just make bought ones vintage. Originally they didn't want to upset an already teetering apple cart with the MannCo store, but now it's all settled and most people either don't mind the store, or even like it, so the riots of the first month or so are long gone. Vintages of them would be worth wayyyy more than them being "dirty" anyway. [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] or just remove non-cosmetic set bonuses all together. Those were really silly ideas unless it was something like the costume set bonuses, which are awesome.

[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;37700186]Really? Well that's bullshit.[/QUOTE] Now you know where a majority of the set bonus hate stems from -- the wide lack of availability of the set bonus enablers, the hats, compared to every other item that affects gameplay, the weapons. The rest of the despising comes from it actually being dumb as hell to have hats affect gameplay, the fact that the entire loadout is required (which means you don't know the bonus is active until after the fact, this applies to the Australian Xmas bonuses as well), and how many of the bonuses are direct upgrades to identical-but-hatless loadouts with the exception of the Gas Jockey's Gear and the Saharan Spy when not used with the Dead Ringer.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37700219]at this point they could probably take the hats from the sets and just make bought ones vintage. Originally they didn't want to upset an already teetering apple cart with the MannCo store, but now it's all settled and most people either don't mind the store, or even like it, so the riots of the first month or so are long gone. Vintages of them would be worth wayyyy more than them being "dirty" anyway. [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] or just remove non-cosmetic set bonuses all together. Those were really silly ideas unless it was something like the costume set bonuses, which are awesome.[/QUOTE] In that case, they should make the items normally not obtainable anymore (Big Kill and Bill's Hat(?)), and make them actually obtainable, but make the ones beforehand into vintages. Also, another way they could fix the cosmetic set bonus problem is by: 1) Adjusting the set stats themselves. Give a downside to the Special Delivery, Tank Buster, and Croc-o-Style Sets, and change the Saharan Spy Set's downside to something else. The Gas Jockey Set is the [b]only[/b] good cosmetic set. 2) Make the set bonuses not require a cosmetic. They could also readjust the non-cosmetic set bonuses to be better. [b]Especially[/b] The Hibernating Bear, because the set bonus is just so damn useless...

they could just give the set bonus effects to one of the weapons in the set. The Le'R needs a buff anyway, take the sentry resistance and apply it to the Backup's buff, take the Gas Jockey speed and just trash it because ew, take the extra health and trash it, again because ew, take the added health regen from the Medic set and give it to Crossbow (wooo buff, and Medic's primaries already alter his health regen), give the crit resistance thing to either the Brass Beast while revved (woo a shield) or the Warrior's Spirit. I don't even remember Demoman's. I think it's fire resistance?? Just trash it, not even important to the scheme of things. Oh right, and headshot resistance. Ehhh... was never a fan of that, honestly be kind of hilarious on the Razorback.

So I was playing MvM, I was a spy. A giant charged soldier was about to drop the bomb, and his medic bot ubered me, giving me enough time to backstab the soldier. lol

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;37700310]they could just give the set bonus effects to one of the weapons in the set. The Le'R needs a buff anyway, take the sentry resistance and apply it to the Backup's buff, take the Gas Jockey speed and just trash it because ew, take the extra health and trash it, again because ew, take the added health regen from the Medic set and give it to Crossbow (wooo buff, and Medic's primaries already alter his health regen), give the crit resistance thing to either the Brass Beast while revved (woo a shield) or the Warrior's Spirit. I don't even remember Demoman's. I think it's fire resistance?? Just trash it, not even important to the scheme of things. Oh right, and headshot resistance. Ehhh... was never a fan of that, honestly be kind of hilarious on the Razorback.[/QUOTE] If we had to take out the set bonus effects and apply them to something else, then... I personally think that the Saharan Spy's set effects should be part of a new watch. The Sentry Resistance being part of the Backup's buff seems alright. Why trash the Gas Jockey speed? I honestly believe that the Gas Jockey is, like I said, the [b]only[/b] good cosmetic set. If anything, just give the Degreaser the 10% bullet vulnerability (because my god, if they're not going to ever decrease the weapon switch time...) and the Powerjack the 10% move speed bonus while active. I agree with trashing the Special Delivery's set bonus. I'm also not a fan of the headshot resistance, but it only seems fair that the Sydney Sleeper should get it. If it was the Darwin's Danger Shield, that'd be too much of a buff for it. I say have the crit resistance be on the Brass Beast, but on [b]all times[/b]. It's so tiny of a resistance... I agree with trashing the Expert's Ordance set bonus, and applying the Medieval Medic's set bonus to the Crusader's Crossbow.

I'd say the vast vast vast majority of players don't even notice that normal cloak has a de-cloak noise, making a whole watch that's gimmick is being silent kind of pointless.

haha dude what servers do you play on for me when you undeadringer six people whip around and fire

^ normal cloak noise i love people who play with music on while i'm spying stabstabstab

The thing is though that really, lots of players do not notice it at all. I unclocked straight behind a heavy medic pair and got no alert. Basing a mechanic around sound which is often obscured by music is a terrible idea. Something optional like sound shouldn't make you have a disadvantage normally.

Well, playing music is not really paying attention to the game, which has MANY audio cues. I for one pay attention to uncloaking noises and have surprised many spies, and the Saharan set has an advantage against people who actually pay attention to the game. And set bonus are alright; the Sniper and Spy ones are genious examples of equivalent exchange, and I never, NEVER saw a problem with them. Make the cosmetics more readily obtainable and that's it. They are balanced: You get a straight boost against sentries if you gimp yourself out of one rocket and a damaging secondary. You get a discreet DR if you also renounce to use disguises out of the bat and run with a weaker gun that can be exploited. You won't die to headshots if you renounce to headshots, use a unsynergic secondary-melee combo, and gimp yourself against flares. You get a boost in health if you use a set that focuses on covering your weakness instead of making emphasis in your strenghts. Meanwhile, the gas jockey? Move the bullet weakness from the set to the Degreaser, and you'll have a reason to run it. Otherwise? Not that impressed; the extra speed is fine, but the out of nowhere penalty isn't. But hey, it won't be balanced unless red text, nevermind weapon synergy and all that. They work, the cosmetics involved just need weapon drop rates or something to make them not rare.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;37700845]Well, playing music is not really paying attention to the game, which has MANY audio cues. I for one pay attention to uncloaking noises and have surprised many spies, and the Saharan set has an advantage against people who actually pay attention to the game. And set bonus are alright; the Sniper and Spy ones are genious examples of equivalent exchange, and I never, NEVER saw a problem with them. Make the cosmetics more readily obtainable and that's it. They are balanced: You get a straight boost against sentries if you gimp yourself out of one rocket and a damaging secondary. You get a discreet DR if you also renounce to use disguises out of the bat and run with a weaker gun that can be exploited. You won't die to headshots if you renounce to headshots, use a unsynergic secondary-melee combo, and gimp yourself against flares. You get a boost in health if you use a set that focuses on covering your weakness instead of making emphasis in your strenghts. Meanwhile, the gas jockey? Move the bullet weakness from the set to the Degreaser, and you'll have a reason to run it. Otherwise? Not that impressed; the extra speed is fine, but the out of nowhere penalty isn't. But hey, it won't be balanced unless red text, nevermind weapon synergy and all that. They work, the cosmetics involved just need weapon drop rates or something to make them not rare.[/QUOTE] So tell me, a Sniper having the Croc-o-Style weapons, but not having a Croc-o-Style [b]hat[/b], which prevents you from getting a straight bonus (and the same case with the Special Delivery and Tank Buster), is a brilliant idea? [b]Edit:[/b] I personally like the Gas Jockey and Saharan Spy sets the most (though, more so the Gas Jockey), simply because they allow for fair diversity of one set. Want to be a little more like a Scout? Wear the Attendant! Need a quieter cloak, and can handle not getting in the enemies' way? Wear the Familiar Fez! (Honestly, though, the Saharan Spy could use different stats.) The other sets, like the Special Delivery, Tank Buster, and Croc-o-Style, allow for an unfair advantage, just because you are wearing the set's hat. Oh, you're not wearing a crocodile on your head? Too bad, no headshot resistance for you.

[QUOTE=Archimedes;37698458]This years halloween boss will be Demoman. Just demoman.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc460/Krakash/boogie.png[/IMG] 2spooky4me

wait wait how about how about demo but wait demo but a skeleton SKELETONMAN AND HE DOES THIS DANCE [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3yxHY.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;37701262]wait wait how about how about demo but wait demo but a skeleton SKELETONMAN AND HE DOES THIS DANCE [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3yxHY.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] That's not Demoman, that's Gray Mann. 'Cuz, you know, skeletons have no color 'n stuff, and neither does Gray Mann.

[QUOTE=AbeX300;37701287]That's not Demoman, that's Gray Mann. 'Cuz, you know, skeletons have no color 'n stuff, and neither does Gray Mann.[/QUOTE] racist

[QUOTE=AbeX300;37700298]In that case, they should make the items normally not obtainable anymore (Big Kill and Bill's Hat(?)), and make them actually obtainable, but make the ones beforehand into vintages.[/QUOTE] If I had any say in the matter this would be the case. All the high tier hats would be in the store, would drop. And if I had my way completely promo items would function like the L4D2 ones. but keeping the genuine's in a specific time lock. Also all earbuds would be made genuine, untradeable. Then tied to some rediculously easy achievement so EVERYONE can have some. But alas the market is too "stable" that valve would make those kind of drastic changes. [sp] You can tell I don't like the trade economy, can't you?[/sp]

[QUOTE=Kapellmeister;37701262] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3yxHY.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] "Vhen zhe patient vhoke up, his skeleton vas meesing, and zhe doktor vas never heard from again!"

What if the skeleton that Medic lost comes back to haunt him?

[QUOTE=Quinnjdq;37700622]The thing is though that really, lots of players do not notice it at all. I unclocked straight behind a heavy medic pair and got no alert. Basing a mechanic around sound which is often obscured by music is a terrible idea. Something optional like sound shouldn't make you have a disadvantage normally.[/QUOTE] Dunno, I do think my friend said changed the Decloaking sound for his game so he can notice spies more often. The truth is...will you hear the spy decloaking with all the gun fire and explosions going on anyway?

I think blackmesa source and killingfloor may have finished off my interest in TF2 help

[QUOTE=AbeX300;37700435]just give the Degreaser the 10% bullet vulnerability[/QUOTE] I really dislike the degreaser set, but at least make it a "while active" thing so we don't see 100s of backburners again. I don't know a lot of those tweaks own but I'm still on the fence of just straight up giving the sleeper the set bonus. I think that's probably best use case of a set if I've ever seen one.