Major Update Speculation V5: Somewhere over the rainbow - Games

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The person WITH the weapon CAN choose by equipping the flamethrower. You basically want the ability to have a kill taunt on the Flamethrower without any of the consequences associated with Pyroland. That's wanting your cake and eating it too.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576569]The person WITH the weapon CAN choose by equipping the flamethrower. You basically want the ability to have a kill taunt on the Flamethrower without any of the consequences associated with Pyroland. That's wanting your cake and eating it too.[/QUOTE] Pyroland is a cosmetic feature, not a consequence. Else the miscs specifically for adding pyroland wouldn't exist.

[QUOTE=AlfieSR;36576576]Pyroland is a cosmetic feature, not a consequence.[/QUOTE] If you don't like Pyroland it's a downside. Plus visual cues with particles are not as distinguished in Pyroland, amking certain things more difficult (like what team a burning player is on)

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576569]The person WITH the weapon CAN choose by equipping the flamethrower. You basically want the ability to have a kill taunt on the Flamethrower without any of the consequences associated with Pyroland. That's wanting your cake and eating it too.[/QUOTE] Why not make it optional, I don't see any what so ever reason but selfish principle reasons why people with Pyroland items should not be able to turn off the effect. How would it effect ANYONE but the people who choose to not see Pyroland?

[QUOTE=Simski;36576601]Why not make it optional, I don't see any what so ever reason but selfish principle reasons why people with Pyroland items should not be able to turn off the effect. How would it effect ANYONE but the people who choose to not see Pyroland?[/QUOTE] it IS optional, use the Flamethrower :/ [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] you're calling for the Rainblower to go from a unique reskin to a glorified action item...

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576615]it IS optional, use the Flamethrower :/ [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] you're calling for the Rainblower to go from a unique reskin to a glorified action item...[/QUOTE] A reskin with an entirely new taunt used by no other items is a unique reskin in my opinion. Calling upon the Flamethrower as being already optional is not a valid argument because we're talking about the taunt in the first place.

Then call for the Flamethrower to get the taunt, not to allow people to pick how much of a reskin they want the Rainblower to be because they don't like certain elements of it, undermining the uniqueness and making it a glorified action item.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576672]Then call for the Flamethrower to get the taunt, not to allow people to pick how much of a reskin they want the Rainblower to be because they don't like certain elements of it, undermining the uniqueness and making it a glorified action item.[/QUOTE] Why can't it be both? What if I'm perfectly alright with everyone seeing me using the Rainblower in Pyroland, but I personally would enjoy the new taunts in the normal world since everyone else can see me using the new taunts in the normal world? [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] It doesn't change anything but the wearer's perspective. There is absolutely no other reason than "STOP HAVING FUN GUYS" to be against this feature.

Because the Rainblower is a unique item, with a unique effect and a unique taunt, and you just want the unique taunt part because it kills, ignoring the other two things because you don't like those. Should we be able to turn off the Holy Hand Grenades just so we can hear the Halleluiah without the need for flashy golden grenades?

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576782]Because the Rainblower is a unique item, with a unique effect and a unique taunt, and you just want the unique taunt part because it kills, ignoring the other two things because you don't like those.[/QUOTE] It is a cosmetic item, it is a cosmetic item that also has an alternative skin, and all I want it to be able to enjoy the alternative skin with my cosmetic item. [QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576782]Should we be able to turn off the Holy Hand Grenades just so we can hear the Halleluiah without the need for flashy golden grenades?[/QUOTE] Yes and no, making them into miscs would actually be a pretty nice thing if Valve could do because I'm pretty sure many people would enjoy using either the Helmet or Grenades separately. It would also prevent clipping with cosmetic items that change your grenades.

I've made it very clear through most threads how I feel on reskins, that they're far worse than ugly hats and are a dark blot on TF2 that continues time and again to fail, but they just keep doing it. In this case we have a reskin that actually has some very unique aspects, and to me it feels more like a traditional weapon, rather than a reskin, and I want to maintain that uniqueness. Letting you use the taunt without actually having to use the weapon is basically allowing yourself another bland reskin in the game just because it has a taunt that hurts people. Even if they add a recipe next week (which they probably will) and by all accounts they treat it as a unique weapon... We need more Rainblowers and Sharp Dressers in this game, and less Mailboxes and Mauls and I want to make sure the uniqueness of the few reskins that are unique is not lost.

I just don't understand why you think nobody else should be able to enjoy it simply because you wouldn't. It wouldn't be removing a feature, it would be adding one.

I don't understand why you think you should be able to pick and choose stats on items just because it has a flashy taunt.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576834]I don't understand why you think you should be able to pick and choose stats on items just because it has a flashy taunt.[/QUOTE] Because it's a cosmetic item. Should we remove the styles on every cosmetic items because you think there should be only one style available?

[QUOTE=Simski;36576842]Because it's a cosmetic item. Should we remove the styles on every cosmetic items because you think there should be only one style available?[/QUOTE] If it's a cosmetic item then why does the taunt kill?

It's not a gameplay changing stat, it's a cosmetic effect.

[QUOTE=Simski;36576849]It's not a gameplay changing stat, it's a cosmetic effect.[/QUOTE] but it kills, the flamethrower's taunt does not

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576845]If it's a cosmetic item then why does the taunt kill?[/QUOTE] It tauntkills both in Pyroland and in the normal world. Why the flying fuck do I have to be forced to never be able to enjoy the appearance of it in the normal world because some some greedy person thinks nobody should be allowed to do so because of a principle?

let's put it another way. Let's say the attributes read this way + On taunt, incinerate your enemies! - Turns Pyroland on Is it still a cosmetic item?

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576845]If it's a cosmetic item then why does the taunt kill?[/QUOTE] you're dense

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576874]let's put it another way. Let's say the attributes read this way + On taunt, incinerate your enemies! - Turns Pyroland on Is it still a cosmetic item?[/QUOTE] Yes. Basically. Either way, Pyroland is not meant as a negative feature so I think it is simply selfish to think that it MUST be forced on everyone if they want to use it.

[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;36576885]The way I see it, the taunt kill is the main upside (360 degree, large ass AoE tauntkill) and Pyroland is the downside.[/QUOTE] exactly, there's certain aspects of Pyroland that make the game harder. Many visual cues are muffled, the screen is cluttered with random particles, voices blend together and are hard to tell apart.

[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;36576885]The way I see it, the taunt kill is the main upside (360 degree, large ass AoE tauntkill) and Pyroland is the downside.[/QUOTE] Pyroland is not meant as an downside. It's mean as a fun cosmetic feature. There would be absolutely no balance changes if it was possible to disable.

[QUOTE=Simski;36576892]Yes. Basically. Either way, Pyroland is not meant as a negative feature so I think it is simply selfish to think that it MUST be forced on everyone if they want to use it.[/QUOTE] so the Amputator is a cosmetic item? [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Simski;36576905]Pyroland is not meant as an downside. It's mean as a fun cosmetic feature. There would be absolutely no balance changes if it was possible to disable.[/QUOTE] you'd have a straight upgrade to the Flamethrower :/

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576908]so the Amputator is a cosmetic item?[/QUOTE] No, it's just Valve being fucking retarded and making plain upgrades. I will not considered the Amputator as an example of design anyone should support [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=ned_ballad;36576908]you'd have a straight upgrade to the Flamethrower :/[/QUOTE] Pyroland is not a negative feature. It is a cosmetic feature. It's possible to play the exact same way in Pyroland, and I can do that with ease. The reason I don't want Pyroland, is because I find it less visually appealing. Not harder to play in. Less visually appealing.

but simski it is harder to play in, there's a lot of broken teamcolour particles and you can't see the edge of your screen, you can't argue it, it's a fact that it's a downside.

[QUOTE=NeoDement;36576951]but simski it is harder to play in, there's a lot of broken teamcolour particles and you can't see the edge of your screen, you can't argue it, it's a fact that it's a downside.[/QUOTE] I don't think those are intended gameplay mechanics to make Pyroland harder, nor should they be treated as such

In order to use the taunt, you have to tolerate Pyroland. If you can't tolerate Pyroland than it's a huge downside. If you can tolerate it, you get to use the taunt with a slight downside because the visual cues in Pyroland are bad (even on maps where Pyroland's textures don't work). Again, read the stats as + On taunt: Incinerate enemies - Must live in Pyroland - Weapon can only be seen in Pyroland And the Rainblower quickly becomes much more than a cosmetic item. What further makes this unique is the upside doesn't rely on the weapon being readable at all. It can look identical to the flamethrower to other players because the taunt has an elaborate start animation and sound to those not in Pyroland, and those in Pyroland know the player has the rainblower. It's perfect, it plays on perception and makes the item better or worse for players depending on how much they rely on specific audio/visual cues.

A taunt kill is just a fun little aside, there is no serious use for it when you're actually playing the game other than killing yourself or AFK players. It is as good as cosmetic.