Major Update Speculation V5: Somewhere over the rainbow - Games

Fuck it, this argument isn't leading anywhere. The only people I care about getting the idea through to is Valve anyway. Hopefully they would be less selfish and would agree that Pyroland is supposed to be a fun cosmetic feature, not a terrible downside you are forced to endure if you want to enjoy Pyro's new taunt.

If you won't use the Rainblower because you don't like Pyroland and think it's a pain to endure, it shows even you think it's a downside. Meaning it's a stat. Meaning it's not a cosmetic item

[QUOTE=Randdalf;36576992]A taunt kill is just a fun little aside, there is no serious use for it when you're actually playing the game other than killing yourself or AFK players. It is as good as cosmetic.[/QUOTE] This is pretty much why I want it. I've been waiting years for Pyro to get a cool new taunt, and then he gets two versions of the same taunt for a weapon I enjoy using, and the only version I'm able to see is the one that changes the visual style of the game dramatically.

[QUOTE=Randdalf;36576992]A taunt kill is just a fun little aside, there is no serious use for it when you're actually playing the game other than killing yourself or AFK players. It is as good as cosmetic.[/QUOTE] If Taunts aren't relevant to stats, why are there weapons like the Amputator and (somewhat) Sandvich that rely on taunts for their stats...

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36577032]If you won't use the Rainblower because you don't like Pyroland and think it's a pain to endure, it shows even you think it's a downside. Meaning it's a stat. Meaning it's not a cosmetic item[/QUOTE] I like the Rainblower, and I like the taunt in Pyroland. I however also like the taunt in the normal world, and it makes me sad that I can't enjoy both.

It makes me sad the Solemn Vow can't heal with its taunt. But what am I going to do.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36577050]If Taunts aren't relevant to stats, why are there weapons like the Amputator and (somewhat) Sandvich that rely on taunts for their stats...[/QUOTE] First, Sandvich's only use IS the taunt. Then the Amputator just got something slapped on it to be better than the default saw because it sucks for medics.

[QUOTE=royaldanney;36577102]First, Sandvich's only use IS the taunt. Then the Amputator just got something slapped on it to be better than the default saw because it sucks for medics.[/QUOTE] that doesn't take away that those taunts are used as balancing mechanics and aren't just a simple fun cosmetic thing...

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36577111]that doesn't take away that those taunts are used as balancing mechanics and aren't just a simple fun cosmetic thing...[/QUOTE] They're so hard to use that they're balanced with themselves. Also, the Pyro has got atleast one killtaunt anyway in every loadout.

Perhaps the compromise here is to lets players choose which taunt they see when they have it equipped (though they always see pyroland)?

[QUOTE=royaldanney;36577145]They're so hard to use that they're balanced with themselves. Also, the Pyro has got atleast one killtaunt anyway in every loadout.[/QUOTE] And the Rainblower's taunt is also hard to use, and Pyroland is the balance to that. Pyro lacks a melee taunt kill

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36577161]And the Rainblower's taunt is also hard to use, and Pyroland is the balance to that. Pyro lacks a melee taunt kill[/QUOTE] Where's the whole point to this discussion anyway. God, we're talking about how taunts affect the actual gameplay. You know, how ridiculous that sounds? Everything is fine as it is now.

but taunts DO effect gameplay. If they didn't the Amputator wouldn't exist. And everything isn't fine, as the Rainblower lacks a recipe, despite being more than a simple reskin.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36577161]And the Rainblower's taunt is also hard to use, and Pyroland is the balance to that. Pyro lacks a melee taunt kill[/QUOTE] he should have one where he builds a shed around the metre in front of him then locks it with his fireaxe and ignites it

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36577222]but taunts DO effect gameplay. If they didn't the Amputator wouldn't exist. And everything isn't fine, as the Rainblower lacks a recipe, despite being more than a simple reskin.[/QUOTE] Next, you demand that everyone should get a free Scorch Shot because it's taunt is long range compared to the normal Hadouken? What shitty argument is this? If you get killed by a taunt you're a bad player anyway. You're talking as if you'd be the Uber Pro Competitve gamer, and still you only play on Valve servers. Who the fuck cares, in pubs in general. It's spam and choke points only anyway.

The Scorch Shot has a recipe, there's nothing wrong there at all.

[QUOTE=royaldanney;36577210]Where's the whole point to this discussion anyway. God, we're talking about how taunts affect the actual gameplay. You know, how ridiculous that sounds? Everything is fine as it is now.[/QUOTE] Aside from that some people such as myself would enjoy the ability to turn off the Pyroland cosmetic feature. I don't think of Pyroland as a downside, and I think it's beyond fucking ridiculous to think that it's intended as a downside. It's a cosmetic feature. I just want to be able to enjoy my cosmetic to its fullest. If you suck at playing the game in Pyroland, then that's probably because you just plain suck at playing the game regardless of being in Pyroland or not. Being terrible at playing the game because you do not enjoy Pyroland is not a good excuse to oppose other people saying they would enjoy being able to turn off the cosmetic effect due to them finding the taunt more visually appealing in the normal world.

[QUOTE=NeoDement;36577229]he should have one where he builds a shed around the metre in front of him then locks it with his fireaxe and ignites it[/QUOTE] Pyro should lift the Homewrecker/Maul/Powerjack over his head building up momentum, then slam it down on the ground, causing the screen to shake slightly and a small AoE earthquake that kills and sends the bodies flying straight up.

[QUOTE=Simski;36577292]Aside from that some people such as myself would enjoy the ability to turn off the Pyroland cosmetic feature. I don't think of Pyroland as a downside, and I think it's beyond fucking ridiculous to think that it's intended as a downside. It's a cosmetic feature. I just want to be able to enjoy my cosmetic to its fullest. If you suck at playing the game in Pyroland, then that's probably because you just plain suck at playing the game regardless of being in Pyroland or not. Being terrible at playing the game because you do not enjoy Pyroland is not a good excuse to oppose other people saying they would enjoy being able to turn off the cosmetic effect due to them finding the taunt more visually appealing in the normal world.[/QUOTE] I see we have two different kinds of discussion here. I don't care about Pyroland and stuff at all. I only talked about taunts and how they affect gameplay.

[QUOTE=Simski;36577292]Aside from that some people such as myself would enjoy the ability to turn off the Pyroland cosmetic feature. I don't think of Pyroland as a downside, and I think it's beyond fucking ridiculous to think that it's intended as a downside. It's a cosmetic feature. I just want to be able to enjoy my cosmetic to its fullest.[/QUOTE] this is just a fancy way of saying you want a flamethrower with a taunt kill without bubbles and rainbows and lost visual cues :/

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36577222]but taunts DO effect gameplay. If they didn't the Amputator wouldn't exist.[/QUOTE] SOME taunts effect gameplay. Not all of them. You definitely wouldn't say that the Gunslinger killtaunt balances the weapon for example, you'll say that it's a fun little nifty effect that on rare occasions can be used as a impractical but humiliating way to kill someone. The Amputator and Sandwich relies on their taunts as their sole reason for being used. You don't use those for any other reason than that because their taunts have heavily gameplay changing effects.

[QUOTE=Simski;36577353]SOME taunts effect gameplay. Not all of them. You definitely wouldn't say that the Gunslinger killtaunt balances the weapon for example, you'll say that it's a fun little nifty effect that on rare occasions can be used as a impractical but humiliating way to kill someone. The Amputator and Sandwich relies on their taunts as their sole reason for being used. You don't use those for any other reason than that because their taunts have heavily gameplay changing effects.[/QUOTE] It's a huge AoE taunt that the stock doesn't have. Which weapon am I talking about? The Amputator or the Rainblower?

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36577350]this is just a fancy way of saying you want a flamethrower with a taunt kill without bubbles and rainbows and lost visual cues :/[/QUOTE] Yes. Yes I do. I see no reason why I should not be allowed this. I would still be using the Rainblower, and people in Pyrovision would see me using the Rainblower. However I would be able to only pretend to be completely insane while enjoying my awesome pyro taunt to the fullest. Yes, I want to have the cookie and still eat it. However when that is something that is fully possible to do without it having any what so ever negative effect on any other players, I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to.

It doesn't matter what effect Pyroland has on other players, it's a perception based attribute that might be a harsher downside to some than it is for others. What other players see or don't see is irrelevant. It's actually a really smart downside. It makes people really think if the taunt is worth it or not, and how much of Pyroland they can tolerate and still play effectively.

[QUOTE=royaldanney;36577346]I see we have to different kinds of discussion here. I don't care about Pyroland and stuff at all. I only talked about taunts and how they affect gameplay.[/QUOTE] I only meant that although I think the weapon is fine as it is now, the argument we're having is about why it wouldn't be alright for someone with Pyroland items to turn off the visual effect since it's only cosmetic.

because it's not a cosmetic :/

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36577400]It doesn't matter what effect Pyroland has on other players, it's a perception based attribute that might be a harsher downside to some than it is for others. What other players see or don't see is irrelevant. It's actually a really smart downside. It makes people really think if the taunt is worth it or not, and how much of Pyroland they can tolerate and still play effectively.[/QUOTE] I really REALLY don't think Valve intended it as a downside. I certainly don't think of it as a downside or something that makes me play the game worse, the only thing I think of it is that although it is cool, I enjoy TF2's normal artstyle and would enjoy if I could see the awesome taunt in the normal world just like everyone else can. I don't want to remove the effect, I want to be able to temporarily disable it. Like a style on a hat.

Downsides of Pyroland - With the outside screen blur and border, you lose FoV. - With a lack of clear team colored burning particles, you lose that. - All projectiles share the same particles now, so you can't tell one explosion from another - Team elements of the map background are lost (like there's no difference between the 2fort sewers, so you don't know which sewer you're in if you get teleported). - All the classes sound the same, so it's a little harder to distinguish between classes based solely on audio clues. - Everything is visually cluttered and distracting

Pyrovision is technically a slight downside for the player using it. All visual cues related to a burning player are removed and replaced with non-team specific rainbows and sparkles and audio cues are fucked up as well. IMO, to be able to just turn off Pyrovision and just be able to use the taunt rather makes the point of the weapon moot. It's a weapon that shows players the true character of the Pyro, a maniac who sees rainbows and lollipops and everything nice in his strange point of view - not "Oh neat, I can taunt kill shit and not see gay ass rainbows everywhere." EDIT: Ninja'd by ned on downsides :x

Upsides: Mr. Balloonicorn Clearly pyrovision is a net upside.