Major Update Speculation V5: Somewhere over the rainbow - Games

[QUOTE=igotopinions;36579565]It's a balancing feature? Did I miss Ned or somebody saying that? That's kind of an odd thing to say. Anyway, I can't tell if Simski's really angry about this or if he just talks like a sailor[/QUOTE] because Pyroland has certain confusing readability changes, it can be viewed as a balancing feature. You lose team colored afterburn particles, plus you have a much harder time telling pain apart, as classes all have the same voice, and make the same sounds for afterburn, backstabs, etc, when they don't in the real world. These also apply to any map. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=ThatSwordGuy;36579590]Giving people to ability to toggle Pyrovision affects nobody but the person who chooses to toggle it on or off. There's no reason to prevent others from using Pyroland items without Pyrovision just because you like it to be on. There's nothing wrong with customization.[/QUOTE] Then the Flamethrower becomes useless...

[QUOTE=Simski;36579569]My compromise is very fucking simple, you get to choose to be in Pyroland, I get to choose to not be in Pyroland. Both fucking win, nobody is effected in any fucking way by what the other person chooses. Everyone gets to have fun, without anyone fucking up the fun for everyone else.[/QUOTE] This then presents the same problem that arose when the Amputator, Solemn Vow, and Third Degree were added. Let's not encourage more of that.

[QUOTE=igotopinions;36579565]Anyway, I can't tell if Simski's really angry about this or if he just talks like a sailor[/QUOTE] I have a temper when people are arguing with me, especially when the things I'm saying isn't getting through. I'm not angry though, frustrated, but not angry. I am NOT fun to deal with when I'm angry,

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36579467]You are in a pretty huge minority that doesn't want the taunt to kill :/[/QUOTE] To be fair, the Rainblower taunt shouldn't operate as a spam AoE point denial kill taunt. We shouldn't have an AoE kill taunt with no downside for its use. The one AoE kill taunt we had prior was the Equalizer taunt. Now it's not even usable anymore due to being linked to no weapons.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36579591]Then the Flamethrower becomes useless...[/QUOTE] I really doubt the ability for an item to tauntkill determines its usefulness as a weapon. Last time I checked, you could still set people on fire with the flamethrower. And if you're chasing people down to tauntkill them, you're not doing it right. This is merely a cosmetic issue.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36579591]because Pyroland has certain confusing readability changes, it can be viewed as a balancing feature.[/QUOTE] These are bugs, considering them legitimate gameplay mechanics to be used as a downside is seriously fucking ridiculous.

[QUOTE==DarkStar=;36579545]Would you drop it off? Let me tell you my point of view: 1) Pyroland is not and disadvantage at all. The problem with pyroland is how they made the cosmetic effect. They need teamcolors and less spark, a simple change in the effect should do the trick. 2)Taunt kills are not a direct advantage. Sure some gives you a side effect (ubersaw) but as real way to attack they are useless (unless you get lucky) so is not a direct upgrade in any way posible. Sure I support the idea to turn pyroland items on/off just because the effect doesn't work as pretty much alot of people want but dropp it off. Tauntkills are just for shit and giggles not for balance and gameplay.[/QUOTE] You can't deny that the rainblower would be ultimately better than the vanilla if it didn't activate pyroland.

[QUOTE=ThatSwordGuy;36579620]I really doubt the ability for an item to tauntkill determines as usefulness as a weapon. Last time I checked, you could still set people on fire with the flamethrower. And if you're chasing people down to tauntkill them, you're not doing it right. This is merely a cosmetic issue.[/QUOTE] It still would turn the Rainblower into Flamethrower++. A taunt effect is still better than no effect. No matter how insignificant it may seem to you.

[QUOTE=Simski;36579624]These are bugs, considering them legitimate gameplay mechanics to be used as a downside is seriously fucking ridiculous.[/QUOTE] how do you know it's a bug?

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36579627]You can't deny that the rainblower would be ultimately better than the vanilla if it didn't activate pyroland.[/QUOTE] Nope. I would consider it somewhat cooler, just like the Iron Curtain.

[QUOTE=Simski;36579569]My compromise is very fucking simple, you get to choose to be in Pyroland, I get to choose to not be in Pyroland. Both fucking win, nobody is effected in any fucking way by what the other person chooses. Everyone gets to have fun, without anyone fucking up the fun for everyone else.[/QUOTE] My compromise is very simple, you get to choose be affected by flashbangs, and I get to choose to not be effected by flashbangs. Both win, nobody is effected by what the other person chooses.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36579640]how do you know it's a bug?[/QUOTE] Because it's fucking ridiculous to assume they purposely disabled team colors on burning enemies as a gameplay mechanic.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36579640]how do you know it's a bug?[/QUOTE] No one would make gameplay worse on purpose. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Simski;36579664]Nope. I would consider it somewhat cooler, just like the Iron Curtain.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter what you consider it. It's the vanilla flamethrower with a taunt kill and the exact same base stats. If it didn't start pyroland, it would be better. Period.

[QUOTE=Armisael;36579675]My compromise is very simple, you get to choose be affected by flashbangs, and I get to choose to not be effected by flashbangs. Both win, nobody is effected by what the other person chooses.[/QUOTE] Are you seriously implying that Pyroland is as bad as a fucking flashbang? It has a few stupid fucking bugs in particles, that's all, not gameplay mechanics, not enough that you receive any real downside unless you're really REALLY terrible at this game.

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36579677]No one would make gameplay worse on purpose.[/QUOTE] Pain and death screams are all replaced with laughter. There are no more critical death screams. This makes Spies and Snipers that much easier to go undetected if they're out of your field of view if your eyeballs aren't glued to the killfeed. It actually has a pretty significant impact on gameplay when you no longer can instantly identify a huge threat in the immediate vicinity.

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36579677]No one would make gameplay worse on purpose.[/QUOTE] [t]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/2/24/Conniver%27s_Kunai.png[/t]

[QUOTE=Simski;36579664]Nope. I would consider it somewhat cooler, just like the Iron Curtain.[/QUOTE] The Iron Curtain doesn't have a taunt kill though.

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36579677]It doesn't matter what you consider it. It's the vanilla flamethrower with a taunt kill and the exact same base stats. If it didn't start pyroland, it would be better. Period.[/QUOTE] Extremely insignificantly better. Even without its ability to kill, I would still want it. I would rather have them remove its ability to kill, than for me not to be able to use it due to ridiculous claims of imbalance. If the taunt was purely cosmetic, I would still want it. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Erfly;36579729]The Iron Curtain doesn't have a taunt kill though.[/QUOTE] So make it not kill, if you think it being able to kill makes it overpowered (I think that's fucking stupid)

[QUOTE=Simski;36579735]Extremely insignificantly better. Even without its ability to kill, I would still want it. I would rather have them remove its ability to kill, than for me not to be able to use it due to ridiculous claims of imbalance. If the taunt was purely cosmetic, I would still want it. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] So make it not kill, if you think it being able to kill makes it overpowered (I think that's fucking stupid)[/QUOTE] Better is better.

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36579758]Better is better.[/QUOTE] So fucking what? It's insignificantly better. Like the iron curtain. I also do not want it because it's better, I want it because it's visually more appealing. If it being able to kill taunt would be overpowered without Pyroland, then I would rather have it not be able to killtaunt.

I don't really think this is an argument? I dunno, rate me disagree I suppose. Maybe it's just an internet misunderstanding thing, I was getting the impression we were just making idle chat here. Anyway, I think it's just a pro/con type of thing. The taunt has meaning to be lost. It's not like it's deep, but it's a fun little gag that might lose its effect if you can just toggle it willy-nilly. Maybe if they gave it to a new weapon that never activated pyroland, it would still be worthwhile. If the majority of players feel like Simski, I think it'd probably be worth just handing over to the players. As it is though, I don't think it's justified replacing the taunt on a stock or anything else. Gameplay-wise: I don't give a rat's ass either way. Taunt kills affect gameplay, but pretty much balance themselves. I get a one-hit-kill as a scout, but I have to take one hell of a risk in the process. Taunts meaning straight upgrades seem like a matter of principle, but I think Valve following its own rules always is a good idea, so a repeat on the amputator doesn't seem too appealing. (by the way, no offense if I come off as a "haha you're maddddd" sort of asshole. this shit's just confusing when we're just talking through text. no hard feelings!)

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36579677]No one would make gameplay worse on purpose. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] It doesn't matter what you consider it. It's the vanilla flamethrower with a taunt kill and the exact same base stats. If it didn't start pyroland, it would be better. Period.[/QUOTE] The weapon would still be exactly the same as it is now. It works the same in normal vision as it does in Pyroland so this argument that Pyroland automatically balances the weapon because things kind of look different is null and void. This has nothing to do with balancing and has everything to do with cosmetics. You wouldn't argue about the balancing between different styles of a hat, so there's no reason to argue about the balancing of giving a weapon different styles.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;36579717]Pain and death screams are all replaced with laughter. There are no more critical death screams. This makes Spies and Snipers that much easier to go undetected if they're out of your field of view if your eyeballs aren't glued to the killfeed. It actually has a pretty significant impact on gameplay when you no longer can instantly identify a huge threat in the immediate vicinity.[/QUOTE] I would just give that one to valve on not being prepared. They were play-testing the update hours before it dropped. I didn't think of that though. Cheers. Fuck, page king. Major Update Speculation V5: Flamethrower++ and gay goggles edition.

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36579758]Better is better.[/QUOTE] And? We've been getting several upgrades and it didn't break the game. God, I hate fundamentalists.

"kind of look different" is grossly underestimating audio/visual cues.

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36579787]I would just give that one to valve on not being prepared. They were play-testing the update hours before it dropped.[/QUOTE] This is basically what I think ALL the downsides of Pyroland are. They are unintended sideffects and bugs, not negative gameplay mechanics. They are things Valve should fix, not things we should embrace as balancing features.

[QUOTE=royaldanney;36579791]And? We've been getting several upgrades and it didn't break the game. God, I hate fundamentalists.[/QUOTE] Why should people encourage a powercreep? The only reason that people didn't care that much about the Amputator, Solemn Vow, and Third Degree is because [i]no one gave a rat's ass about the weapons they overshadowed[/i] Ubersaw and Axtinguisher are still the kings of the melee court regardless of what straight upgrades to their useless stock counterparts are made. If there were a new weapon that had all of the effects of the Axtinguisher and something more, you'd bet your ass that people would be going nuts over it.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;36579842]The only reason that people didn't care that much about the Amputator, Solemn Vow, and Third Degree is because [i]no one gave a rat's ass about the weapons they overshadowed[/i] Ubersaw and Axtinguisher are still the kings of the melee court regardless of what straight upgrades to their useless stock counterparts are made..[/QUOTE] Then why are you throwing a hissy fit over the flamethrower?

[QUOTE=Simski;36579856]Then why are you throwing a hissy fit over the flamethrower?[/QUOTE] It just got a buff to level the playing field with the Backburner and Degreaser. Why the fuck would you buff it and then toss it aside in the same update?

[QUOTE=Simski;36579856]Then why are you throwing a hissy fit over the flamethrower?[/QUOTE] might I remind you, you're the one who wants to make the changes (that are technically impossible, but whatever), to the weapon, not us. We want it to remain the same, other than given a recipe and treated as a regular weapon like the Backburner and Degreaser.