Major Update Speculation V5: Somewhere over the rainbow - Games

If Pyrovision was patched to fix hindered visual and perhaps audio cues, would you guys be on board to allow Pyrovision to be toggleable?

[QUOTE=ThatSwordGuy;36579875]If Pyrovision was patched to fix hindered visual and perhaps audio cues, would you guys be on board to allow Pyrovision to be toggleable?[/QUOTE] no, it's still the point of the weapons, and would remove the flamethrower's reason for existing. Plus it would turn a not-reskin into a reskin, which is terrible.

I'd just like to be able to use the strange variants without having to see Pyroland. It's one of the few things that after looking at it for too long gives me headaches and makes me feel nauseous.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;36579870]It just got a buff to level the playing field with the Backburner and Degreaser. Why the fuck would you buff it and then toss it aside in the same update?[/QUOTE] Because it's an insignificant visual feature on a weapon that is not as easy to obtain as the normal weapon. I'd still be perfectly alright if you removed the taunts ability to kill, and I'd prefer it to not having the taunt at all in the normal world.

Look, i'm not arguing that pyroland is a corruption of TF2 at the moment. It's just not as desirable as normal version because of the effect problems and laughter doing weird things to the gameplay. I don't even think that it should be considered because it's nowhere near as serious as we're making it sound. All i'm saying is that the rainblower is the vanilla flamethrower and if pyroland didn't have these bugs, it would be better because it gives you something that the vanilla flamethrower just doesn't have.

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36579897]Look, i'm not arguing that pyroland is a corruption of TF2 at the moment. It's just not as desirable as normal version because of the effect problems and laughter doing weird things to the gameplay. I don't even think that it should be considered because it's nowhere near as serious as we're making it sound. All i'm saying is that the rainblower is the vanilla flamethrower and if pyroland didn't have these bugs, it would be better because it gives you something that the vanilla flamethrower just doesn't have.[/QUOTE] It still does. A fucking cosmetic change of the world that brings tiny insignificant bugs that any experienced player can easily get used to is not a noteworthy balancing feature to a killtaunt, regardless, I don't give a flying fuck about its ability to kill, and I want the taunt, not the killtaunt, just the taunt, with or without its ability to kill, because it's one of Pyro's coolest new taunts and it sucks balls that everyone but the person who's using it can see it.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36579889]no[/QUOTE] And why not? Because if a person stood still next to a Pyro performing the Rainblower taunt and got killed by it, that Pyro would be VASTLY superior to a Pyro using the stock flamethrower? It would be similar to saying the Heavy's frying pan is inferior to his stock fists because he can tauntkill with them. It's a non-argument. Taunts should never be considered an integral part of gameplay mechanics.

the person using it can see it. [QUOTE=ThatSwordGuy;36579929] Taunts should never be considered an integral part of gameplay mechanics.[/QUOTE] but they are already (Amputator and Phlog). And Pyroland is a minor downside, and the taunt is a minor upside.

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36579627]You can't deny that the rainblower would be ultimately better than the vanilla if it didn't activate pyroland.[/QUOTE] Yes I can. Again, taunt kills are not a direct upgrade in any way posible. They are funny effect that might do something if you get lucky. Only the ubersaw and the holyday punch gives the player a[b]real [/b] advantage. If you say having taunt kills is a[b]real [/b] pretty much you want to remove every taunt kill. Bubbler tauntkill at this moment is broken because gets over the walls but look at all the taunts: -You get stuck in place until is over -You are loud and visible - Most of them have a very short range (showdown and scrocht shot no) So I see no real buff.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36579932]the person using it can see it.[/QUOTE] Yes, as a fucking rainbow and bubbles. While everyone else gets to see the class about killing people with fire do a badass taunt breathing fire. I want to see that taunt too when I'm using it, and the reasons I shouldn't are fucking stupid.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36579932]the person using it can see it. but they are already (Amputator and Phlog). And Pyroland is a minor downside, and the taunt is a minor upside.[/QUOTE] Because they are balanced as advantage for those weapons. Taunt kills is pretty much they work= you get a free kill They miss= you are fucked. Only a few affect in direct ways gameplay so no you can't win this one.

[QUOTE=Simski;36579922]It still does. A fucking cosmetic change of the world that brings tiny insignificant bugs that any experienced player can easily get used to is not a noteworthy balancing feature to a killtaunt, regardless, I don't give a flying fuck about its ability to kill, and I want the taunt, not the killtaunt, just the taunt, with or without its ability to kill, because it's one of Pyro's coolest new taunts and it sucks balls that everyone but the person who's using it can see it.[/QUOTE] There's an achievement for killing people with the taunt. Having the same taunt that can both kill and not kill will only confuse players. They're not going to remove the kill taunt, end of story. For technical reasons, they're not going to remove Pyroland from the gun in any way shape or form. They won't have the particles toggled by you entering third person because the particles in first and third person are identical and having them toggled so often will not bode well for low-end machines, they cannot add a style that disables Pyroland because that's not how styles work -- attributes are not bound to styles in any way shape or form. You're barking up a tree that cannot and will not give you an apple from its branches, just be happy with the one that fell onto the ground because that's all you're going to get.

[QUOTE==DarkStar=;36579950]Yes I can. Again, taunt kills are not a direct upgrade in any way posible. They are funny effect that might do something if you get lucky. Only the ubersaw and the holyday punch gives the player a[b]real [/b] advantage. If you say having taunt kills is a[b]real [/b] pretty much you want to remove every taunt kill. Bubbler tauntkill at this moment is broken because gets over the walls but look at all the taunts: -You get stuck in place until is over -You are loud and visible - Most of them have a very short range (showdown and scrocht shot no) So I see no real buff.[/QUOTE] It's the only taunt kill (that I know of) that can go through walls. Maybe, that has some application somewhere. I'm speaking in theory here. Isn't the huntsmen taunt basically silent? Or at least he doesn't speak until after you would have already hit someone with it. (and no, i'm not arguing that the huntsmen is better than any sniper rifle)

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36579932] but they are already (Amputator and Phlog).[/QUOTE] Yeah I can contend that the Phlogistinator's taunt effect has a huge effect on gameplay, but you lose the ability to use your airblast, which is a vital mechanic for the Pyro. The Amputator is simply the bonesaw with a healing taunt effect. Any Medic worth their salt doesn't just run up to teammates and taunt them to full health. [QUOTE=ned_ballad;36579932]And Pyroland is a minor downside, and the taunt is a minor upside.[/QUOTE] Therefore Pyroland should be toggleable if it really is that minor.

[QUOTE=Simski;36579780]So fucking what? It's insignificantly better. Like the iron curtain. I also do not want it because it's better, I want it because it's visually more appealing. If it being able to kill taunt would be overpowered without Pyroland, then I would rather have it not be able to killtaunt.[/QUOTE] I don't understand any of your arguments

If I taunt with the flamethrower, I'm stuck. But even if someone is next to me, they don't die. If I taunt with the rainblower, I'm stuck. But if someone is next to me they die Therefore the rainblower is better than the flamethrower just by the nature that the rainblower's taunt does something different than the flamethrowers. It's silly arguments like that I see for the Amputator. That because you have to make yourself a sitting duck to use it, it's actually a downside! Guess what, it isn't. Because you can make yourself a sitting duck with the bonesaw too, but unlike the Amputator, it has no effect at all.

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36580004]It's the only taunt kill (that I know of) that can go through walls. Maybe, that has some application somewhere. I'm speaking in theory here. Isn't the huntsmen taunt basically silent? Or at least he doesn't speak until after you would have already hit someone with it. (and no, i'm not arguing that the huntsmen is better than any sniper rifle)[/QUOTE] the huntsman taunt is actually a very legit attack strategy for the weapon, I have used it many times to hit unaware players who I might have missed because of the bad huntsman hitboxes. And it stuns almost instantly, so once you get them, they're trapped.

On a more general note: I hate to say it, but I'd been wearing rose-colored glasses, myself. This update isn't as spectacular and amazing as I led myself to believe. Doomsday feels rushed as hell. The weapons are nice, but when you get ingame, the total number really [I]is[/I] a bit lacking, isn't it? There's a definite feel of "we thought an update was due" that I never felt before. The more you play it, the more you realize it's pretty shallow. It's presented like a map you'll come back to, like Dustbowl, but it's flawed to the point of just being a Cp_Degroot type novelty. They could save it with tweaks, but what in the map is good enough to save? It's kinda like Meet The Pyro, really. Fantastic objectively, but not compared to the impossible-high standards we stick around for. The minor additions are still great, though. Gloves of Running Urgently are just as fun, the Quick-Fix doesn't seem useless anymore, and that Equalizer split was a godsend. also haha that rose colored glasses sentence sounds like some terrible, terrible critic and I am so proud of that

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36580004] Isn't the huntsmen taunt basically silent? Or at least he doesn't speak until after you would have already hit someone with it. (and no, i'm not arguing that the huntsmen is better than any sniper rifle)[/QUOTE] No longer, The sniper scream STAB STRAB SSSSTAAAAB when he taunt. And yes the huntsman taunt alongside the sandman and the ubersaw taunt used to be silent which used to make them unfair. Good thing they add a very loud sound for them.

[QUOTE=NeoDement;36580036]I don't understand any of your arguments[/QUOTE] People are saying I can't have the taunt without Pyroland because a new killtaunt would be overpowered without the cosmetic effects of Pyroland, so my answer to this is then just fucking remove its ability to kill so it would be balanced for me to have it in the normal world.

Sorry to break your funny fights guys, but was this discussed in the last tens of pages of this thread? [url]http://imgur.com/a/cUQwr[/url]

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36580039]If I taunt with the flamethrower, I'm stuck. But even if someone is next to me, they don't die. If I taunt with the rainblower, I'm stuck. But if someone is next to me they die Therefore the rainblower is better than the flamethrower just by the nature that the rainblower's taunt does something different than the flamethrowers. It's silly arguments like that I see for the Amputator. That because you have to make yourself a sitting duck to use it, it's actually a downside! Guess what, it isn't. Because you can make yourself a sitting duck with the bonesaw too, but unlike the Amputator, it has no effect at all.[/QUOTE] In all situations you are susceptible to gunfire, melee weapons, actual fire, explosives, and other taunt kills. If you could use the Rainblower taunt kill while moving around or it initiated instantly, yeah, that would require balancing. But you're standing stock still and it takes a good while to execute, so a sniper or even simply a scout that's out of your range can kill you before you even complete the taunt.

[QUOTE=Simski;36580078]People are saying I can't have the taunt without Pyroland because a new killtaunt would be overpowered without the cosmetic effects of Pyroland, so my answer to this is then just fucking remove its ability to kill so it would be balanced for me to have it in the normal world.[/QUOTE] Who said it would be overpowered? What.

[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;36580053]I want the Sniper to do the Huntsman taunt with all his weapons because I want the Medic to do the Übersaw taunt with all his weapons because I want the Engineer to do the Gunslinger taunt with all his weapons because I want [B]all weapons[/B] to do the Showdown taunt because[/QUOTE] You can't compare it to the rainblower. The rainblower does both the Pyroland taunt, AND the normal world taunt. It is doing both things simultaneously, but it's only showing one of the versions. All I want, is to be able to see both versions myself. How fucking hard is that to understand. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=ChrisDom;36580106]Who said it would be overpowered? What.[/QUOTE] Ned, and everyone else claiming Pyroland is a balancing feature

[QUOTE=uzikus;36580091]Sorry to break your funny fights guys, but was this discussed in the last tens of pages of this thread? [url]http://imgur.com/a/cUQwr[/url][/QUOTE] I'd seen it discussed, but never found out what the backstory was. Where is this from?

I said it would be a straight upgrade to the flamethrower, which is an undeniable (even though you'll deny it) fact. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=igotopinions;36580131]I'd seen it discussed, but never found out what the backstory was. Where is this from?[/QUOTE] source film maker.

[QUOTE=uzikus;36580091]Sorry to break your funny fights guys, but was this discussed in the last tens of pages of this thread? [url]http://imgur.com/a/cUQwr[/url][/QUOTE] No, that was 20 pages ago. The last 10 pages have been tauntkill discussion.

[QUOTE=ChrisDom;36580106]Who said it would be overpowered? What.[/QUOTE] The argument is that being able to toggle Pyrovision would somehow render the stock flamethrower ultimate inferior and that no one would ever use it anymore in their right mind.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;36580139]I said it would be a straight upgrade to the flamethrower, which is an undeniable (even though you'll deny it) fact. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] source film maker.[/QUOTE] So just fucking remove the weapons ability to tauntkill, if that makes you any happier. I would still use it.

[QUOTE=ThatSwordGuy;36580104]In all situations you are susceptible to gunfire, melee weapons, actual fire, explosives, and other taunt kills. If you could use the Rainblower taunt kill while moving around or it initiated instantly, yeah, that would require balancing. But you're standing stock still and it takes a good while to execute, so a sniper or even simply a scout that's out of your range can kill you before you even complete the taunt.[/QUOTE] taunt with the flamethrower and it's the exact same situation, except that taunt isn't able to possibly kill something that gets too close. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Simski;36580161]So just fucking remove the weapons ability to tauntkill, if that makes you any happier. I would still use it.[/QUOTE] so you'd rather take a totally unique weapon, with a unique taunt effect, unique sounds, unique kill icons, and a totally new appearance and make it the maul okay, whatever