[QUOTE=AyesDyef;37793794] apparently they don't go through a lot of items because of how terribly submissions are uploaded, they open up zip files and are like, "what the fuck is this mess?", however, this is mainly for cosmetic items only, as weapons require balancing and such, and the TFTeam is tiny in comparison to say... the dota2 team.[/QUOTE]
That's some useful information, thanks! :smile: Is there some sort of standard zip file template or something to help make their lives easier before they do update the compiler?
[QUOTE=AyesDyef;37793794]Well I'm back from the US, and Valve!
The tour was awesome, and Robin gave me an extra tour afterwards where I went into the TF2 area and introduced me to the team.
He answered quite a few of my questions.
Apparently they're just doing the usual for community items, however they're hoping to bring in a newer compiler which'll make it easier to go over workshop items, apparently they don't go through a lot of items because of how terribly submissions are uploaded, they open up zip files and are like, "what the fuck is this mess?", however, this is mainly for cosmetic items only, as weapons require balancing and such, and the TFTeam is tiny in comparison to say... the dota2 team.
I also asked about the character animation rigs, and he wasn't sure what they were for, but I think it's for some future character model changes, where animation data can be kept seperate, which will allow them to modify the character models without having to compile the animations onto the player model all the time. eg bodygroups (the team was considering doing bodygroups the way dota2 does them).
I asked a ton of other questions, feel free to jog my memory for specifics.
edit: And no, I did not ask about fixes.[/QUOTE]
You didn't happen ask why they don't utilize more of the community submitted fixes in the workshop did you? Or did this go under "they don't go through a lot of items because of how terribly submissions are uploaded"?
Also... did you get to see about how many people and their different areas of expertise that still work on TF2? Like, how many programmers, writers, modelers, animators, designers, etc.
[QUOTE=blaholtzen;37793685]i would have some sort of engraving there but that part has such small uv space so it might be hard to make that look good
this one actually didn't turn out as bad as i guessed it would though so maybe i can pull it off
maybe a cheerleader?[/QUOTE]
Since it greatly resembles MP412 REX it could maybe have thin grooves along the barrel.
[IMG]http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/handguns/russia/revolver/1287753538.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=AyesDyef;37793794]Well I'm back from the US, and Valve!
The tour was awesome, and Robin gave me an extra tour afterwards where I went into the TF2 area and introduced me to the team.
He answered quite a few of my questions.
Apparently they're just doing the usual for community items, however they're hoping to bring in a newer compiler which'll make it easier to go over workshop items, apparently they don't go through a lot of items because of how terribly submissions are uploaded, they open up zip files and are like, "what the fuck is this mess?", however, this is mainly for cosmetic items only, as weapons require balancing and such, and the TFTeam is tiny in comparison to say... the dota2 team.
I also asked about the character animation rigs, and he wasn't sure what they were for, but I think it's for some future character model changes, where animation data can be kept seperate, which will allow them to modify the character models without having to compile the animations onto the player model all the time. eg bodygroups (the team was considering doing bodygroups the way dota2 does them).
I asked a ton of other questions, feel free to jog my memory for specifics.
edit: And no, I did not ask about fixes.[/QUOTE]
Aside from the archive structure, any common problems with submitted items?
[QUOTE=FISH KILL!;37793920]Since it greatly resembles MP412 REX it could maybe have thin grooves along the barrel.
[IMG]http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/handguns/russia/revolver/1287753538.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
It is? I don't see the similarities :v:
Personal questions I highly doubt you asked about:
[B]1.[/B] Did you ask them if they'll ever consider implementing an official server option for classic mode with no weapons and cosmetics?
[B]2.[/B] Did you ask them if they could make the Fire Axe teamcolored (basically everything else in the game that is red because of paint rather than because of blood or other organic materials are team colored blue, including the flaregun, brigade helmet, and exstinguisher on the degreaser)
[QUOTE=AyesDyef;37793820]I asked about bodygroups, and they were considering the dota style of bodygrouping, which I'd assume could get rid of the Sniper's glasses in the future if they ever go through with it.[/QUOTE]
That would be the best thing ever.
Dota body groups are just so hnng.
I feel like everything I've already said addresses exactly what you responded with. However I will try to counter once more.
[QUOTE=Pocket Medic;37793641]Looking past the reference to 'enjoy it for what it is' is very difficult when the gun [I]is[/I] a reference in practically everything about it; visuals, features and attachments, and if the person who wants the gun has little expertise in texturing TF2 items, the texture also. And for gods sake, I never said it was awful.[/QUOTE]
It's not at all difficult. You say [I]everything[/I] about it is that reference. But the Scout is always associated with Herme's wings. They're even on his class logo. Everything beyond that is just a color combination. Which even the most inexperienced persons can change, with or without Photoshop.
I think I clarified this previously quite clearly by saying that [I][B]"just because I'm a non-alcoholic, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy the Demoman's rum bottles"[/B][/I].
As for you saying it was awful. I explained myself on that too, then summarized what it was via referring to it as awful. There are plenty of contexts in which the term "awful" can be used. It doesn't necessarily mean the model or texture is of inferior quality. In this case, "awful" moreso meant repulsive in a mild form. The idea behind you disliking the item in theory, is that it's related to something you don't like, in which case you either; get over that fact and enjoy the cool looking gun, or ignore it and download another item.
Your personal interests are not the concern of the model maker, if said interests revolve around the subject matter and not the quality of the model itself.
In short, if you don't like chocolate eat a banana.
[QUOTE=Pocket Medic;37793641]Firstly, Photoshop is expensive as hell, and not everyone has it. Take note of the fact that if you mention "other" ways to get it, that'll likely get a ban as you definitely know. Secondly, it certainly doesn't seem all that easy to retexture an entire gun, and no matter what you do with the texture of it, that lock of hair on a string really won't make any sense on the gun.[/QUOTE]
I had no intention of suggesting "other" ways to get Photoshop. That's the texture editor's concern not mine. My point here is that retexturing an item to hide the subject matter it was made for is not the authors concern. He made this model for a specific purpose, and it achieves that purpose. If you don't like it, it's usually tough luck. But in this case the author of said item was kind enough to provide the source files for his (texture) work. To ask for more is selfish when in reality he didn't have to include it in the first place.
That and if someone cares enough to change the texture (which really has rather little in the way of referencing the show all things considered anyway) there are plenty of ways to do so, with or without Photoshop.
[QUOTE=Pocket Medic;37793641]The item is one that I would like to use, Balls. There's simply a barrier of varying tastes between me and the gun.[/QUOTE]
Then use it or don't use it. This is such a hard view to oppose because you seem to neither like it or dislike it. The fact is, it's very basically themed, and the wings add something unique and interesting to the model. Beyond that it would look very much like many other scatter guns. The thing is, if he really did make a non themed version for download. Would you even want it as much? And if you would, then that's up to you to model.
Take the female class models. The idea behind it was the author wished to play as female versions of the characters. Should they then get angry at Valve for not providing such a thing if they're not capable of modeling. No, they make it themselves because it's not Valve's problem. Valve didn't intend them to be female, and as such wont execute such a request just because someone would rather play as something else.
[QUOTE=Pocket Medic;37793641]It's definitely [I]that easy[/I] to alter the model itself and edit the texture. Call me crazy, but if I or anyone else was unable to do these, having to stare at something you dislike if they choose to install it is gonna be one hell of a kick in the teeth, as will having to stare at something in the Emporium that they would've loved to see in a version they'd actually enjoy seeing.[/QUOTE]
No need for the sarcasm in the opening of this paragraph. We're all capable of discussing something without being abrasive.
That being said your following logic makes no sense at all; [B][I]"having to stare at something you dislike if they choose to install it is going to be one hell of a kick in the teeth"[/I][/B]. The user would have nobody to blame but themselves in such a case, as the irritation is self-inflicted. How mindless would a user have to be to install something they don't like then persist to do nothing about it (removing it for example).
[QUOTE=Pocket Medic;37793641]I'm not insulting anyone, and I'm not getting upset. I'm making a point that someone requested a version more open to be used, and the response they got was practically 'make it yourself.' It wasn't even practically that. That was the exact response.[/QUOTE]
Instead of opening this subject in a civil manner, you were harsh towards Quinnjdq. You opened your subject with something along the lines of [B][I]"wow! rude..."[/I][/B] Not even just [B][I]"rude"[/I][/B] I would consider that to be insulting to some degree. And yet Quinnjdq responded calmly with a response explaining that he had decided to attach his PSD to the post. Something most users wouldn't do.
It's not his fault you read [B][I]"make it yourself"[/I][/B] with aggressive intent, nor is it his problem. Even if he [I]had[/I] have been rude towards you, him telling you to make it yourself if you don't like something as trivial as the subject matter, and not something affecting the quality of the model itself is quite an appropriate reaction.
There. I'm officially done. Meaningless and sidetracking subjects like this are why I avoid the rest of Facepunch beyond the Emporium and Source Filmmaker sections. It's also the reason I left the site for about four years after originally joining back in 2005.
I wont be responding on this subject from hereon-in. Though understand I have no personal distain towards you regardless of what I say. I'd hate for you to read this and develop some personal grudge against me.
[QUOTE=Quinnjdq;37793959]That would be the best thing ever.
Dota body groups are just so hnng.[/QUOTE]
Out of plain curiosity and ignorance, how does the Dota 2 bodygroups work compared to the bodygroups in TF2?
[QUOTE=AyesDyef;37793794] apparently they don't go through a lot of items because of how terribly submissions are uploaded, they open up zip files and are like, "what the fuck is this mess?", however, this is mainly for cosmetic items only, as weapons require balancing and such, and the TFTeam is tiny in comparison to say... the dota2 team.[/QUOTE]
Didn't they always say to use the itemtest compiling tool to make it easier for them ? :S
[QUOTE=Simski;37793916]You didn't happen ask why they don't utilize more of the community submitted fixes in the workshop did you? Or did this go under "they don't go through a lot of items because of how terribly submissions are uploaded"?
Also... did you get to see about how many people and their different areas of expertise that still work on TF2? Like, how many programmers, writers, modelers, animators, designers, etc.[/QUOTE]
I didn't ask about the fixes specifically because it's a bit rude to show up and go "Did you know that this and this is broken?", I'm sure they know all about it, and also because of how submissions are uploaded, see below.
As for how many of each role, from what I saw, there was only 2 modellers at the time, everyone else was playtesting or coding stuff I wasn't sure, but about 13 people total.
[QUOTE=pogothemunty;37793931]Aside from the archive structure, any common problems with submitted items?[/QUOTE]
Well okay, here's what they do, they look at some items, and pick ones they like, but then they generally have to recompile them to have a better look at them, it isn't a big problem of how things are submitted by contributors, but the workflow that Valve have set up at the moment.
They'll go through at most 3 items a day, (they only really have one person checking submissions, and getting input from the others on specifics.)
Whilst, apparently they already have this new compiler working for dota2, where they can go through and check 200 items a day, in a way that they just open a submitted encrypted file, and it'll load all detail and such with a click.
So all in all, soon, we'll have a new compiler thingymabob that's tons better than itemtest.
Robin said within a few weeks, but we all know how time works ;P
[QUOTE=Simski;37793948]Personal questions I highly doubt you asked about:
[B]1.[/B] Did you ask them if they'll ever consider implementing an official server option for classic mode with no weapons and cosmetics?
[B]2.[/B] Did you ask them if they could make the Fire Axe teamcolored (basically everything else in the game that is red because of paint rather than because of blood or other organic materials are team colored blue, including the flaregun, brigade helmet, and exstinguisher on the degreaser)[/QUOTE]
No and no.
[QUOTE=psyke;37794027]Didn't they always say to use the itemtest compiling tool to make it easier for them ? :S[/QUOTE]
I always assumed that the folder structure in that item test thing was the one to follow when uploading items too.
[sp]Well shit, I'll have to redo everything then. :O[/sp]
[QUOTE=psyke;37794027]Didn't they always say to use the itemtest compiling tool to make it easier for them ? :S[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and that's what's causing the hold up, they want to add tons of items, and they'll be improving/replacing itemtest.
However, this will most likely only benefit cosmetic items, weapons and such didn't seem to interest the TFTeam as much due to the amount of playtesting and balancing that would need to be done before shipping, and because their team is shrinking to dota2 and sfm, they've got more interesting projects to working on a weapons stats.
[QUOTE=AyesDyef;37794033]No and no.[/QUOTE]
Damn... Well, I'll still keep my hopes up that I'll one day will get to stand proud above the corpse of a dead pyro while sporting my stunning blue brigade helmet and pulling a sweet air-guitar riff with my strange blue Fire Axe :v:
[QUOTE=Simski;37794025]Out of plain curiosity and ignorance, how does the Dota 2 bodygroups work compared to the bodygroups in TF2?[/QUOTE]
Dota characters have everything split very heavily. Base characters are SO base that they barely resemble the character with the body groups off, they based the entire game on cosmetics being made. If tf2 was that way pretty much everything on the character would be removeable.
Let's take Sniper, he would probably have as follows.
Glasses
Feet
Quiver
Watch
Maybe gloves
and his pouch.
Plus whatever body groups already exist.
[QUOTE=Simski;37794058]Damn... Well, I'll still keep my hopes up that I'll one day will get to stand proud above the corpse of a dead pyro while sporting my stunning blue brigade helmet and pulling a sweet air-guitar riff with my strange blue Fire Axe :v:[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1t4lhbdnS1qb3qif.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=AyesDyef;37794044]Yeah, and that's what's causing the hold up, they want to add tons of items, and they'll be improving/replacing itemtest.
However, this will most likely only benefit cosmetic items, weapons and such didn't seem to interest the TFTeam as much due to the amount of playtesting and balancing that would need to be done before shipping, and because their team is shrinking to dota2 and sfm, they've got more interesting projects to working on a weapons stats.[/QUOTE]
Why can't they just ask to creators to do a recompile? Isn't that the whole point of the valve comments section?
[quote=Ayes](they only really have one person checking submissions, and getting input from the others on specifics.)[/quote]
That both explains a lot of the randomness in the accepted items and also makes me very worried, since having only one guy picking out submissions feels like it could be very biased to his tastes and interpretation of the TF2 theme.
[QUOTE=Quinnjdq;37794070]Dota characters have everything split very heavily. Base characters are SO base that they barely resemble the character with the body groups off, they based the entire game on cosmetics being made. If tf2 was that way pretty much everything on the character would be removeable.
Let's take Sniper, he would probably have as follows.
Glasses
Feet
Quiver
Watch
Maybe gloves
and his pouch.
Plus whatever body groups already exist.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention the way they compile cosmetic sets all into one texture.
and handle things such as selfillum. specular. tint and such all in 2 mask files.
[QUOTE=Totenkreuz;37794073]Why can't they just ask to creators to do a recompile? Isn't that the whole point of the valve comments section?[/QUOTE]
They [B]do[/B], it still takes time, it's not like the TFTeam are putting all their coders onto this better compiler, since it's really a port from the dota2 one that's basically complete.
[QUOTE=AyesDyef;37794094]They [B]do[/B], it still takes time, it's not like the TFTeam are putting all their coders onto this better compiler, since it's really a port from the dota2 one that's basically complete.[/QUOTE]
Did you get any cool Valve swag?
Did you ask them why they don't use the TF2 beta for testing new weapon ideas anymore?
While it may not be as entirely accurate as the normal TF2 due to players owning less weapons, it's still pretty good for getting a jist of how new weapons will effect the community and if they have any major intended features or bugs. (the whole cosmetic fiasco thing could just be avoided by disabling all cosmetics in the beta, there is really extremely little reason for cosmetics to be playtested)
[QUOTE=GoldenBalls;37794119]Did you get any cool Valve swag?[/QUOTE]
Hells yeah, an Aperture mug signed by Robin... :P
Robin let me take photos of stuff that wasn't allowed on the tour.
[editline]25th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Simski;37794121]Did you ask them why they don't use the TF2 beta for testing new weapon ideas anymore?
While it may not be as entirely accurate as the normal TF2 due to players owning less weapons, it's still pretty good for getting a jist of how new weapons will effect the community and if they have any major intended features or bugs. (the whole cosmetic fiasco thing could just be avoided by disabling all cosmetics in the beta, there is really extremely little reason for cosmetics to be playtested)[/QUOTE]
TBH, I forgot all about TF2 beta.
Did they say anything about the red skins for the MvM bots or about Engie bot?
[editline]25th September 2012[/editline]
Oh and... did you happen to get any glimpse of any upcoming cosmetics/weapons :v:?
I've vanished for reasons involving a computer games art course at Teesside University, a 7 hours drive away from where I live.
The wireless isn't exactly stable and the wired connection isn't working for me right now.
Steam doesn't like the unstable wireless, but it seems I can be on FP and other sites fine.
[QUOTE=AyesDyef;37794134]Hells yeah, an Aperture mug signed by Robin... :P
Robin let me take photos of stuff that wasn't allowed on the tour.[/QUOTE]
Aw yeah!
I'd love a Robin tour. I'm jealous!
[QUOTE=Pie_Tony;37794197]I've vanished for reasons involving a computer games art course at Teesside University, a 7 hours drive away from where I live.
The wireless isn't exactly stable and the wired connection isn't working for me right now.
Steam doesn't like the unstable wireless, but it seems I can be on FP and other sites fine.[/QUOTE]
Computer games art course. Sounds fancy. Also, 7 hours drive?! Yikes. Sounds like it's worth it though.
[QUOTE=Simski;37794165]Did they say anything about the red skins for the MvM bots or about Engie bot?
[editline]25th September 2012[/editline]
Oh and... did you happen to get any glimpse of any upcoming cosmetics/weapons :v:?[/QUOTE]
Yes, there's an Engie bot.
[QUOTE=Pie_Tony;37794197]I've vanished for reasons involving a computer games art course at Teesside University, a 7 hours drive away from where I live.
The wireless isn't exactly stable and the wired connection isn't working for me right now.
Steam doesn't like the unstable wireless, but it seems I can be on FP and other sites fine.[/QUOTE]
Could you have picked a university further away from Walesland?
At least you don't have to pay those awful English Tuition fees.
[QUOTE=AyesDyef;37794230]Yes, there's an Engie bot.[/QUOTE]
Awesome, I really hope I'm right about my speculation of an offense based MvM mode where you play as blu team fighting defensive red team robots.
[QUOTE=pogothemunty;37794247]Could you have picked a university further away from Walesland?
At least you don't have to pay those awful English Tuition fees.[/QUOTE]
Could have gone to Dundee.
It was here or Stafford uni, this one offers a 5 minute walk to the town centre and I've already been here 3 times before.
Oh also I heard it off a now third year student valve likes to visit.
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