Major Update Speculation Thread v12: Layoffs Edition - Games

[QUOTE=Zeos;39388854]Do people use the Brass Beast? I never see it anymore. I mean, going much slower is kinda a harsh debuff, but surely the damage boost is significant enough?[/QUOTE] Well, people like to use it in mvm

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;39381076](Beggar's Bazooka) reloads slower[/QUOTE] This is untrue. I use the weapon since pyromania. It does, in fact, reload the first shot faster. Maybe due to another hidden mechanic, or a glitch. But it DOES reload faster. I'd bet my right hand. Actually, all of my limbs. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4EKlewbMAs[/media] This is a nice example of how fast you can pump out rockets with semi-decent timing (you can do it even faster) If you eyeball it, by the end of the video, there are two short 1v1 battles with two stock soldiers. You can see how they fire rockets roughly with the same frequency, except deep (our soldier) has to reload every time.

[QUOTE=Sardonus;39384788]Will they all come with a hat? I don't really give a shit but just curious[/QUOTE] Yes, but you will need three accounts to activated the codes, only one code of the same type can be used on one account, as the codes actually counts as DLCs, and you can't "pay" for the same DLC multiple times, unless it's a gift. v:v:v

[QUOTE=IrregularToasty;39388294]It's maddening how many people completely disregard the Tomislav's ability to [I]stay revved in complete silence[/I] and how fucking useful that is. Also, Heavy does not need any help in getting kills. Ever.[/QUOTE] The silence is not worth the downsides when compared to stock, sorry to say. It's a comparatively worthless downgrade just like Natascha and the Brass Beast.

It'd be nice to see a side by side test of a stock RL soldier who has auto reload on firing next to a BB soldier with the same, and have them both firing from an empty clip. We could measure the exact times that way, and have a more easily judged visual representation.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;39386593]just about every community cosmetic and alot of weapons probably I don't really count the useless nerfs or buffs as serious changes take natascha as an example. Alot of people just thought that valve should drop it and completely give it a new purpose or bonus. But no, they just goddamn stick to the slowdown and make endless changes around it, even though it will NEVER work. All because they think people who paid for it would be mad to see it changed.[/QUOTE] even before the store, Valve didn't like removing core functionality from an item. When they balance they keep the same "feel" of the weapon, but just modify it around that core stat. For example they'd never change YER's ability to silently backstab and then disguise. They'd just add a buff or nerf to that functionality, without changing it. The problem, I guess, comes with weapons like Natascha, if the core functionality is fundamentally flawed, we run into issues where it's awkward and difficult to balance

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;39389391]The silence is not worth the downsides when compared to stock, sorry to say. It's a comparatively worthless downgrade just like Natascha and the Brass Beast.[/QUOTE] Brass Beast isn't worthless if you don't move anyway. It's just for riding the cart, otherwise don't have it rev'd. Some people lie it for MVM, but I can't say for sure if theres any MVM situation where it beats stock, other than when standing in front of a tank and getting pushed.

[QUOTE=Maruhai;39389385]Yes, but you will need three accounts to activated the codes, only one code of the same type can be used on one account, as the codes actually counts as DLCs, and you can't "pay" for the same DLC multiple times, unless it's a gift. v:v:v[/QUOTE] Incorrect, people have activated several dozen robot chicken hats and righteous bison codes on one account, and I'm sure people have activated multiple sandvich/companion square/portal 2 soundtrack boxes on their account.

[QUOTE=ObiWonTwo;39389451]It'd be nice to see a side by side test of a stock RL soldier who has auto reload on firing next to a BB soldier with the same, and have them both firing from an empty clip. We could measure the exact times that way, and have a more easily judged visual representation.[/QUOTE] Auto-reload doesn't affect BB for obvious reasons. You have to hold M1 for the time it takes to load the first rocket, then you have to release exactly the moment when it loads. Alternatively, you can just click and wait for soldier, but this isn't an ordinary technique in a battle for various reasons. For these tests, you could just click M1, yes. But you'd have to keep clicking over and over again, with a set frequency, every time exactly after you shot the previous rocket.

Is FedEx Smartpost usually shit? Im getting pretty worried about my demo who has been in Oregon for 5 days.

I got mowed down yesterday a few times because of a Brass Beast Heavy out of nowhere :x [editline]28th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lik;39389744]Is FedEx Smartpost usually shit? Im getting pretty worried about my demo who has been in Oregon for 5 days.[/QUOTE] Yep, it's garbage. I've had times when it sat at FedEx for days on end and didn't do anything, even though all they had to do at that point was drop it off at the post office and you'd have it in 24 hours.

You know what I really want in a future update? Some sort of option that enables auto-reload on all your weapons except the FaN and the Soda Popper.

[QUOTE=Manibogi;39389878]You know what I really want in a future update? Some sort of option that enables auto-reload on all your weapons except the FaN and the Soda Popper.[/QUOTE] Why exactly?

[QUOTE=Uzbekistan;39389883]Why exactly?[/QUOTE] they always reload 2 shots even if you only fire one. Which is a really confusing mechanic anyway, as no other weapon works like that

[QUOTE=Uzbekistan;39389883]Why exactly?[/QUOTE] So I don't have to manually turn it off everytime I use those weapons ("If one shot is unused before reloading, it is lost") [QUOTE=ned_ballad;39389894]they always reload 2 shots even if you only fire one. Which is a really confusing mechanic anyway, as no other weapon works like that[/QUOTE] Not even the Shortstop, which is somewhat bizarre.

[QUOTE=Drury;39389575]Auto-reload doesn't affect BB for obvious reasons. You have to hold M1 for the time it takes to load the first rocket, then you have to release exactly the moment when it loads. Alternatively, you can just click and wait for soldier, but this isn't an ordinary technique in a battle for various reasons. For these tests, you could just click M1, yes. But you'd have to keep clicking over and over again, with a set frequency, every time exactly after you shot the previous rocket.[/QUOTE] Well, if it's glitchy, and auto reload somehow is involved with the glitch, then it would still be good to have it on. I just figure that the BB isn't [I]supposed[/I] to reload first shot that fast, so it has to be some kind of glitch.

[QUOTE=wtc;39378507]I thought he said that those who redeemed them would have to go through support.[/QUOTE] depends on valve

- very late post, i like clocks -

Well since the talk off weapon balancing is over, I feel the need to ask this again [QUOTE=Inspecter;39387106]Anyone know when the figures will hit retail?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Inspecter;39390712]Well since the talk off weapon balancing is over, I feel the need to ask this again[/QUOTE] Should be near the beginning of this next month or so, I think that they've been really caught by surprise with the early shipping right now. I'd expect the ~15th but that's just me. Also they didn't announce when they'd be on shelves.

[QUOTE=Drury;39388956]This is untrue. I use the weapon since pyromania. It does, in fact, reload the first shot faster. Maybe due to another hidden mechanic, or a glitch. But it DOES reload faster. I'd bet my right hand. Actually, all of my limbs. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4EKlewbMAs[/media] This is a nice example of how fast you can pump out rockets with semi-decent timing (you can do it even faster) If you eyeball it, by the end of the video, there are two short 1v1 battles with two stock soldiers. You can see how they fire rockets roughly with the same frequency, except deep (our soldier) has to reload every time.[/QUOTE] there we go. i keep wondering why there aren't more people abusing it this way

[QUOTE=Uzbekistan;39389883]Why exactly?[/QUOTE] They should do this on revolvers, it's annoying. or after a certain amount of shots (ex, 4-5) to be reloaded. but well, that'd require effort so, it's another thing added to the dream list

[QUOTE=Hell-met;39391377]there we go. i keep wondering why there aren't more people abusing it this way[/QUOTE] Because of the inaccuracy, and increased difficulty to use. Now, if we had a RL that could only have a maximum of 1 rocket loaded at a time, but reloads like 50% faster (or something like that) it could be interesting. Slower than firing off 4 stock RL shots in a row, but faster than firing off an empty stock RL and reloading between each shot. A spam reduced in volume, but increased in duration. You might ask, why not just use the BB then, since it would also have full burst fire? I would say the defining difference would be that this theoretical RL would be trading the burst ability of the BB in exchange for increased accuracy. I guess it could still have [I]some[/I] level of inaccuracy compared to stock RL, but I would save that for a potential nerf down the road if it actually needed it.

[QUOTE=Uzbekistan;39389521]Incorrect, people have activated several dozen robot chicken hats and righteous bison codes on one account, and I'm sure people have activated multiple sandvich/companion square/portal 2 soundtrack boxes on their account.[/QUOTE] Well, on the Dota 2 side of things, I had two Zonkey codes and had to activate them both on different accounts.

[QUOTE=ObiWonTwo;39391891]Because of the inaccuracy, and increased difficulty to use. Now, if we had a RL that could only have a maximum of 1 rocket loaded at a time, but reloads like 50% faster (or something like that) it could be interesting. Slower than firing off 4 stock RL shots in a row, but faster than firing off an empty stock RL and reloading between each shot. A spam reduced in volume, but increased in duration. You might ask, why not just use the BB then, since it would also have full burst fire? I would say the defining difference would be that this theoretical RL would be trading the burst ability of the BB in exchange for increased accuracy. I guess it could still have [I]some[/I] level of inaccuracy compared to stock RL, but I would save that for a potential nerf down the road if it actually needed it.[/QUOTE] the inacurracy does not matter unless you are trying to snipe a sentry from far. increased difficulty is subjective. Watch that vid again, it's perfect.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;39391377]there we go. i keep wondering why there aren't more people abusing it this way[/QUOTE] It's simple. When pyromania struck, every single soldier equipped beggar's bazooka, and every single soldier deemed it utter bullshit of a weapon within a minute. They just didn't know of the faster reload attribute/glitch/whatever and thought it's a straight downgrade to stock, or that it is only useful for it's ability to fire 3 rockets at once. Some even thought you can't rocketjump with it. And those few, including me, who, for some reason, kept using it (in my case, I thought it looked cool... don't judge me, k), eventually found out and started getting better. I've never met any other beggar's bazooka main, even though there were some people equipping it for a few lives and then switching back to stock. It's just completely different, you have to get used to it, and once you do, you'll have trouble using any other rocket launcher. It's a bit like when you play one FPS game, develop some habits (like crouching behind obstacles, throwing grenades), and then switch to another.

[QUOTE=ObiWonTwo;39391891]Because of the inaccuracy, and increased difficulty to use. Now, if we had a RL that could only have a maximum of 1 rocket loaded at a time, but reloads like 50% faster (or something like that) it could be interesting. Slower than firing off 4 stock RL shots in a row, but faster than firing off an empty stock RL and reloading between each shot. A spam reduced in volume, but increased in duration. You might ask, why not just use the BB then, since it would also have full burst fire? I would say the defining difference would be that this theoretical RL would be trading the burst ability of the BB in exchange for increased accuracy. I guess it could still have [I]some[/I] level of inaccuracy compared to stock RL, but I would save that for a potential nerf down the road if it actually needed it.[/QUOTE] Like a slow firing RL with theorically infinite clip? yes plz

[QUOTE=Hell-met;39392062]the inacurracy does not matter unless you are trying to snipe a sentry from far. increased difficulty is subjective. Watch that vid again, it's perfect.[/QUOTE] Yes, you can't just spam a sentry from afar, but you can misfire jump above it and bomb it down with three rockets before it even realizes you're there. You see, misfire jumps are nothing to fuck with, especially chained ones. In fact, once you chain two misfires, you gain so much momentum that when you release the barrage, you move faster than the rockets and they fly in reverse order (but still very close together). [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Dopplereffectsourcemovingrightatmach1.4.gif[/img] It's a bit like breaking sound barrier, if we assume that the rockets fly at mach1. Minisentries are worse. They target you right away and keep shooting your ass till you drop.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I recently learned that Rocket damage is not calculated based on distance traveled but rather distance from Soldier to where the rocket explodes. Therefore if you use the misfire jump to hone in towards where your rockets will land, you deal more damage.

[QUOTE=Barobax;39393014]Correct me if I'm wrong but I recently learned that Rocket damage is not calculated based on distance traveled but rather distance from Soldier to where the rocket explodes. Therefore if you use the misfire jump to hone in towards where your rockets will land, you deal more damage.[/QUOTE] This is correct. It's also true for Stickybombs (within the first 5 seconds of their lifetime) and Sentry Rockets. Pretty much every projectile that has falloff and rampup, so all variant of Rockets and Stickybombs, Crusader's Crossbow bolts (inverse falloff), Rescue Ranger bolts, and Loose Cannon bombs (inverse falloff). [editline]28th January 2013[/editline] I forget what values are used if the player is killed before his projectile connect, pretty sure it uses the last location you were before dying. And I'm pretty sure that if you're in an insta-spawn, the falloff is calculated from where you are once you spawn, not from where you were before you died.