Major Update Speculation Thread v12: Layoffs Edition - Games

[QUOTE=ChowderBowl;39365713]Excuse me. Excuse- Fucking -Me. Valve doesn't want to do certain things because "it is not what the customer originally paid for"? When folks purchased TF2, they didn't pay for a Free 2 Play hat trading simulator. When I bought items out of the store, I didn't pay for a change a month later that made all items bought from the store craftable and make my purchased items drop in price. When I traded for an All-Father and Kringle Collection, I didn't pay for the items to go on sale in the store and drop several Keys in price. When we bought weapons out of the store, we didn't pay to get them nerfed to hell. When we bought Team Fortress 2 / paid to get a Premium Account, [I]we didn't fucking pay for the nine original hats to go into retirement and rise in price by ridiculous amounts.[/I] And Valve has the [B][I]balls[/I][/B] to say they don't want to change old items because "it is not what the customer originally paid for"? [B][I]Bullshit.[/I][/B][/QUOTE] There are not enough boxes in the world, I mean seriously, you're moaning about items going on sale? Are you actually that much of an ingrate?

[QUOTE=Uzbekistan;39365728]There are not enough boxes in the world, I mean seriously, you're moaning about items going on sale? Are you actually that much of an ingrate?[/QUOTE] I'm bringing up an example is all. Valve is making plenty of changes on older items, yet won't change necessary things elsewhere.

[QUOTE=ChowderBowl;39365713]Excuse me. Excuse- Fucking -Me. Valve doesn't want to do certain things because "it is not what the customer originally paid for"? When folks purchased TF2, they didn't pay for a Free 2 Play hat trading simulator. When I bought items out of the store, I didn't pay for a change a month later that made all items bought from the store craftable and make my purchased items drop in price. When I traded for an All-Father and Kringle Collection, I didn't pay for the items to go on sale in the store and drop several Keys in price. When we bought weapons out of the store, we didn't pay to get them nerfed to hell. When we bought Team Fortress 2 / paid to get a Premium Account, [I]we didn't fucking pay for the nine original hats to go into retirement and rise in price by ridiculous amounts.[/I] And Valve has the [B][I]balls[/I][/B] to say they don't want to change old items because "it is not what the customer originally paid for"? [B][I]Bullshit.[/I][/B][/QUOTE] Milkman set. Tank Buster Set. Snaggletooth set. Gas Jockey set. Why is it that the set still includes the hats, and no other sets with bonuses include hats, or just have no hats at all?

[QUOTE=ChowderBowl;39365774]I'm bringing up an example is all. Valve is making plenty of changes on older items, yet won't change necessary things elsewhere.[/QUOTE] The point is that they won't change the model of texture. Are you seriously that mad because overpowered weapons got a nerf and that you lost a couple of keys? Boo fucking hoo.

[QUOTE=ChowderBowl;39365713]Excuse me. Excuse- Fucking -Me. Valve doesn't want to do certain things because "it is not what the customer originally paid for"? When folks purchased TF2, they didn't pay for a Free 2 Play hat trading simulator. When I bought items out of the store, I didn't pay for a change a month later that made all items bought from the store craftable and make my purchased items drop in price. When I traded for an All-Father and Kringle Collection, I didn't pay for the items to go on sale in the store and drop several Keys in price. When we bought weapons out of the store, we didn't pay to get them nerfed to hell. When we bought Team Fortress 2 / paid to get a Premium Account, [I]we didn't fucking pay for the nine original hats to go into retirement and rise in price by ridiculous amounts.[/I] And Valve has the [B][I]balls[/I][/B] to say they don't want to change old items because "it is not what the customer originally paid for"? [B][I]Bullshit.[/I][/B][/QUOTE] You know none of that is changing the item (IE: Changing the model of an item/ a massive texture change.) All I really see is you complaining about how valve put items on sale and made the game free.

[QUOTE=Erfly;39365784]Milkman set. Tank Buster Set. Snaggletooth set. Gas Jockey set. Why is it that the set still includes the hats, and no other sets with bonuses include hats, or just have no hats at all?[/QUOTE] Let me break this down for you: Sets were requested because the TF team wanted to have items that were thematic with one another. Upon including these sets, they wanted to have some sort of incentive for people to wear these full sets of themed items. This was the set bonuses. These backfired horribly due to their involvement with hats. Again, they tried the sets idea with Australian Christmas, but this time without the hats, in hopes of the issue with the original sets not being present (the issues were still there). Since the bonuses would be so commonly acquired, they shied away from making very drastic changes in the set bonuses. During the next wave at Uber Update, they finally realize that set bonuses are stupid, but never bothered to retcon the set bonuses that already existed. Fast forward to halloween, and they implement the first [i]good[/i] set bonus: Tin Soldier. Completely cosmetic alteration, gives perfect incentive to utilize the entirety of the set at once, and it doesn't screw with game balance at all. We've seen sets like this ever since.

[QUOTE=ChowderBowl;39365713]Excuse me. Excuse- Fucking -Me. Valve doesn't want to do certain things because "it is not what the customer originally paid for"? When folks purchased TF2, they didn't pay for a Free 2 Play hat trading simulator. When I bought items out of the store, I didn't pay for a change a month later that made all items bought from the store craftable and make my purchased items drop in price. When I traded for an All-Father and Kringle Collection, I didn't pay for the items to go on sale in the store and drop several Keys in price. When we bought weapons out of the store, we didn't pay to get them nerfed to hell. When we bought Team Fortress 2 / paid to get a Premium Account, [I]we didn't fucking pay for the nine original hats to go into retirement and rise in price by ridiculous amounts.[/I] And Valve has the [B][I]balls[/I][/B] to say they don't want to change old items because "it is not what the customer originally paid for"? [B][I]Bullshit.[/I][/B][/QUOTE] TF2 is not a "TF2 item". Changing a price or stats is not changing the item itself. Stop whining about your trading losses and try to bring up a valid point next time you want to argue with something. [QUOTE=Psychopath12;39365890] Fast forward to halloween, and they implement the first [i]good[/i] set bonus: Tin Soldier. Completely cosmetic alteration, gives perfect incentive to utilize the entirety of the set at once, and it doesn't screw with game balance at all. We've seen sets like this ever since.[/QUOTE] Too bad they only do this with halloween sets :(

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;39365890]Tin Soldier. Completely cosmetic alteration, gives perfect incentive to utilize the entirety of the set at once, and it doesn't screw with game balance at all. We've seen sets like this ever since.[/QUOTE] Thank goodness we got the Dual-Purpose Fruit. I was tired of my Sniper's stomach growling.

[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;39366009]Thank goodness we got the Dual-Purpose Fruit. I was tired of my Sniper's stomach growling.[/QUOTE] "That's apples, mate!" [editline]26th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Psychopath12;39365890]Let me break this down for you: Sets were requested because the TF team wanted to have items that were thematic with one another. Upon including these sets, they wanted to have some sort of incentive for people to wear these full sets of themed items. This was the set bonuses. These backfired horribly due to their involvement with hats. Again, they tried the sets idea with Australian Christmas, but this time without the hats, in hopes of the issue with the original sets not being present (the issues were still there). Since the bonuses would be so commonly acquired, they shied away from making very drastic changes in the set bonuses. During the next wave at Uber Update, they finally realize that set bonuses are stupid, but never bothered to retcon the set bonuses that already existed. Fast forward to halloween, and they implement the first [i]good[/i] set bonus: Tin Soldier. Completely cosmetic alteration, gives perfect incentive to utilize the entirety of the set at once, and it doesn't screw with game balance at all. We've seen sets like this ever since.[/QUOTE] I wish we had more of these cosmetic set "cosmetic buffs" :(

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;39365890]Let me break this down for you: Sets were requested because the TF team wanted to have items that were thematic with one another. Upon including these sets, they wanted to have some sort of incentive for people to wear these full sets of themed items. This was the set bonuses. These backfired horribly due to their involvement with hats. Again, they tried the sets idea with Australian Christmas, but this time without the hats, in hopes of the issue with the original sets not being present (the issues were still there). Since the bonuses would be so commonly acquired, they shied away from making very drastic changes in the set bonuses. During the next wave at Uber Update, they finally realize that set bonuses are stupid, but never bothered to retcon the set bonuses that already existed. Fast forward to halloween, and they implement the first [i]good[/i] set bonus: Tin Soldier. Completely cosmetic alteration, gives perfect incentive to utilize the entirety of the set at once, and it doesn't screw with game balance at all. We've seen sets like this ever since.[/QUOTE] It was sort of rhetorical, as the older ones still have the same sets, and they aren't changing anytime soon. But that's a pretty good description. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Erfly;39366183]It was sort of rhetorical, as the older ones still have the same sets, and they aren't changing anytime soon. But that's a pretty good description. Thanks.[/QUOTE] If it were up to me to retcon all of the set bonuses, here's how I would address it: Special Delivery: Abolish it entirely or Mad Milk grants +25hp and either -20% runspeed or removal of double-jump. If you want to be tanky, be slow/grounded like the rest of us. Otherwise just be the glass cannon. I'd prefer abolishing the set bonus, it contributes nothing good. Saharan Spy: Incorporate the entirety of the set into Your Eternal Reward, as it fits well with the item's functionality. Replace flicker time with faster cloak draining; this gives it an actual downside with the Dead Ringer. Tank Buster: Who cares what happens with this set? Just abolish it. Croc-o-Style Kit: This is a fun one. You can't incorporate it's functionality into anything other than the sleeper because then you'll have headshotters who cannot be headshot. However, I've figured out a good alternative. Darwin's Danger Shield: +25hp and +10% bullet resistance. You get to survive a quickscope or a fully charged bodyshot, but enemy snipers can still shut you down without needing to hit your head twice. Yes, I know that this does change the sniper vs sniper matchup a bit due to quickscopes, but the change is as minute as the Vaccinator's resistance. Gas Jockey's Gear: This is a tough one, since the weapons alone are balanced and the set itself is balanced as well. You can't attach the speed bonus to either of the weapons because then you'll have 110% speed degreaser+axtinguishers or you may get 110% speed phlog or backburners. If set bonuses are to be retconned, this one will have to be discarded in its entirety lest we bring on a wave of rage and kneejerk reactions. It'd be best to incorporate the stats into a new weapon entirely (preferably a melee), such as to not disturb the balance that the weapons already have. Hibernating Bear: This is a joke set, get rid of it. Expert's Ordinance: Another weaksauce set, down the tubes. Medieval Medic: It's a good set. It's too good in fact. The fact that the Amputator is a straight upgrade doesn't help. Attach the heal rate to the Crossbow, as self-defense is tougher with it already. All of the other set bonuses are cosmetic, they are all fine.

why are all the MvM maps some random location in the middle of absolutely nothing? [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/6b/Mvm_bigrock.png/800px-Mvm_bigrock.png[/img] it makes them seem so lonely, empty and boring once you get past the map. At least throw some minor props out there like an oil rig or something interesting to be a background piece.

I would say the Shortstop would be a better fit for the +25HP, but then again we have the Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol. I completely agree with just removing the bonuses that add 5% critical resistance though.

[QUOTE=Erfly;39366359]I would say the Shortstop would be a better fit for the +25HP, but then again we have the Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol. I completely agree with just removing the bonuses that add 5% critical resistance though.[/QUOTE] Hell, maybe just lump the 5% crit resistance onto the Danger Shield instead of the bullet resistance. Quickscope protection, no protection against full-charged bodyshots.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;39366343]why are all the MvM maps some random location in the middle of absolutely nothing? [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/6b/Mvm_bigrock.png/800px-Mvm_bigrock.png[/img] it makes them seem so lonely, empty and boring once you get past the map. At least throw some minor props out there like an oil rig or something interesting to be a background piece.[/QUOTE] That one looks like it's from Mars.

yea, it's just unsettling having all that empty space

[QUOTE=Radu RD;39366483]That one looks like it's from Mars.[/QUOTE] Maybe it actually IS Mars. What a plot twist.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;39366520]yea, it's just unsettling having all that empty space[/QUOTE] Well, you don't notice those thing often during the gameplay as you are at ground level compared to the bird view that screenshot is taken from. Plus the entrance of bots is in a cave which prevents you from seeing the empty space out there most of the time.

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;39366343]why are all the MvM maps some random location in the middle of absolutely nothing? [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/6b/Mvm_bigrock.png/800px-Mvm_bigrock.png[/img] it makes them seem so lonely, empty and boring once you get past the map. At least throw some minor props out there like an oil rig or something interesting to be a background piece.[/QUOTE] Likely for performance optimization.

Wait, the Genuine Robot Chicken Hat is actually tradeable now? Sheesh, I expected it to remain forever untradeable :v:

-snip-

or he's not running the beta

[QUOTE=spencecool;39366874]HOLY FUCK SWEET JESUS [IMG]http://puu.sh/1SWKT[/IMG] they brought back /me[/QUOTE] 1. wrong thread genius 2. Try updating Steam again. [editline]26th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=ned_ballad;39366520]yea, it's just unsettling having all that empty space[/QUOTE] Possibly for optimization, you're going to have a lot of robots marching down there.

[QUOTE=Drury;39366531]Maybe it actually IS Mars. What a plot twist.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.teamfortress.com/shadowboxers/#f=8[/url] Or maybe Soldier was right

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;39366323]If it were up to me to retcon all of the set bonuses, here's how I would address it: Special Delivery: Abolish it entirely or Mad Milk grants +25hp and either -20% runspeed or removal of double-jump. If you want to be tanky, be slow/grounded like the rest of us. Otherwise just be the glass cannon.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Erfly;39366359]I would say the Shortstop would be a better fit for the +25HP, but then again we have the Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol. I completely agree with just removing the bonuses that add 5% critical resistance though.[/QUOTE] Actually, why not give the set bonus and a no double jump downside to the [I]Holy Mackerel[/I]? As of now it's just a bat reskin with the added upside of detecting Dead Ringers - this would actually make it worth something, while leaving the other weapons in the set untouched.

[QUOTE=Radu RD;39366799]Wait, the Genuine Robot Chicken Hat is actually tradeable now? Sheesh, I expected it to remain forever untradeable :v:[/QUOTE] Ask, and you shall receive. [t]http://i.imgur.com/hcm9yeL.jpg[/t]

What if the reason the portal 2 box is taking so long to open is because it's a new weapon and they have to balance it? rainbows

[QUOTE=Hng;39367288]they have to balance it[/QUOTE] Ha.

[QUOTE=Hng;39367288]What if the reason the portal 2 box is taking so long to open is because it's a new weapon and they have to balance it? rainbows[/QUOTE] [img_thumb]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/6/6d/Backpack_Cozy_Camper.png[/img_thumb] 3 months.

[QUOTE=psyke;39367471][img_thumb]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/6/6d/Backpack_Cozy_Camper.png[/img_thumb] 3 months.[/QUOTE] To be fair, that was just a weekly item... Unless you're not implying that it took them 3 months to make the stats for the item.