[QUOTE=Everything;40146947]But at mid range, you get stunned, and you're done.[/QUOTE]
It's still kinda easy to avoid the sandman at mid range. Besides the scout only has 3 viable weapons at range excluding the sandman (pistol, cleaver, shortstop), If you took the sandman away, He is probably the 2nd worst class at range after Pyro.
He's the best at closing gaps though. That's why he can stun at mid and then meatshot you twice before you can fight back.
[QUOTE=Armisael;40146967]The problem is that being crippled and turned into an almost guaranteed kill because a scout managed to hit you with a high speed, low visibility projectile at mid range is terrible.
Basically the same reasons natascha was terrible.[/QUOTE]
You need to play with your graphics up because the ball is far from "low visibility"
[QUOTE=Barobax;40146936]I really don't understand the problem with the Sandman.
At short range, The scout can do much more damage in 2 meatshots in the same time it takes to pull out the sandman, aim, stun opponent, switch back to scattergun.
At long range, You're either an idiot or unlucky to be hit by a small projectile that flies in a predictable arc.[/QUOTE]
"Oh man, I was doing my stuff and now, all of a sudden, I can see myself in thirdperson and can't shoot! I don't understand what's happening! I am leaving this game." Oh, please.
I understood that, when it was something new. I understood it when it was stunning Ubered enemies.
And I remember times, when you had to AIM your ball. Stunning only worked if you got his head. Bodyshots didn't count. And then they made it easier to newbies "hit his leg and he will stun". That was the beginning or whining of Sandman's OP.
Don't get me wrong, I think nerfing or changing the sandman is a dumb idea. It's just that it seems it's often used as a "get rid of priority target free" card alongside the guillotine.
You can see the Scout. You can have your aim on the Scout and be shooting the Scout and nearly kill the Scout, but the Scout will still stun you and win that fight. You don't even have the option to retreat.
[QUOTE=Limie Pie;40146996]"Oh man, I was doing my stuff and now, all of a sudden, I can see myself in thirdperson and can't shoot! I don't understand what's happening! I am leaving this game." Oh, please.
I understood that, when it was something new. I understood it when it was stunning Ubered enemies.
And I remember times, when you had to AIM your ball. Stunning only worked if you got his head. Bodyshots didn't count. And then they made it easier to newbies "hit his leg and he will stun". That was the beginning or whining of Sandman's OP.[/QUOTE]
There are a lot worse things in TF2 that scares away new players. Namely the ability for snipers to kill you in 1 shot while they are too far away to kill. I can't tell you how many times I went rage CnD spy as a newbie against those campers.
[QUOTE=Limie Pie;40146996]Stunning only worked if you got his head. Bodyshots didn't count.[/QUOTE]
correct me if i'm wrong here but i don't think that was ever a feature of the sandman to begin with
Sandman+Cleaver is to the Scout what is Jarate+Bushwacka to the Sniper. Difference is though that the Scout CAN do a lot of damage to you on longer ranges.
Difference being that in the Jarate/Bushwacka scenario, you can still high-tail it immediately after being doused and you'll have beaten his strategy.
Sandman/Cleaver is mid to long range, and running away is never an option you have once you're stunned. You're basically a walking corpse once the ball hits you, unless the Scout can't aim worth anything.
[QUOTE=DatWut?;40147465]Sandman+Cleaver is to the Scout what is Jarate+Bushwacka to the Sniper. Difference is though that the Scout CAN do a lot of damage to you on longer ranges.[/QUOTE]
I'd compare it to the Flaregun, not the Bushwacka. A primarily close-range class having a high-damage combo that allows them to sit a bit outside of their primary range but can still deal decent damage at the cost of not being in immediate range to handle things with their primary weapon.
The Bushwacka combo is the inverse of that.
[QUOTE=Shinx;40146899]blurring the players view would be worse and would stray further away from valves core views around game design. Plus, it would just be easy to mod out the effects of blurred vision.[/QUOTE]
afterburn, bleed and jarate already do it and it works fine. The modding thing is just a minor issue they'd have to address (or not). They never bothered checking for decloak noise mods that make them sirens.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;40146756]I find Natascha and the Sandman to be failures of the weapon balance process. Valve's philosophies that the core functionality of a weapon needs to be maintained through balance have basically barred either of these weapons for having any sort of chance of being fun to use. Slow is pretty bad. It was stated it was bad when it came out. Stun is even worse. But these things are core functionality, so they have to be balanced around them, rather than just gutting them and making brand new weapons.
Like the Sandman could maybe evolve into blurring and confusing the view of the player, rather than outright stunning. Afterburn already does this somewhat, make the effect scale with ball distance and the mechanic could seemingly work.
For natascha, possibly knockback? Maybe pushes people back when they're airborne? Turn it into an anti-air mobility item? I don't know, this one is harder to figure out ways to still have the "feeling" of slow without really being slow.[/QUOTE]
i want projectile destruction in my non-mvm tf2 personally.
I wonder if they're going to give us a Unique Big Kill if you wins Sam's Hat in PN2?
[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;40147949]I wonder if they're going to give us a Unique Big Kill if you wins Sam's Hat in PN2?[/QUOTE]
I bet they'll give out more Lugemorphs
Either that or Sam will get incredibly mad when he'll lost, decapitate Max and bet his head.
I hope they poke at it, like Sam goes to bet his gun but then notes it might be worth too much.
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;40148088]I hope they poke at it, like Sam goes to bet his gun but then notes it might be worth too much.[/QUOTE]
"... No, that's probably a bad idea. Who [i]knows [/i] the chaos that might cause... Fine, I bet... My badge? No... Can't bet Max... Still making payments on the car... Um... My trusty hat! You kids like hats these days right?"
[QUOTE=ned_ballad;40146756]I find Natascha and the Sandman to be failures of the weapon balance process. Valve's philosophies that the core functionality of a weapon needs to be maintained through balance have basically barred either of these weapons for having any sort of chance of being fun to use. Slow is pretty bad. It was stated it was bad when it came out. Stun is even worse. But these things are core functionality, so they have to be balanced around them, rather than just gutting them and making brand new weapons.
Like the Sandman could maybe evolve into blurring and confusing the view of the player, rather than outright stunning. Afterburn already does this somewhat, make the effect scale with ball distance and the mechanic could seemingly work.
For natascha, possibly knockback? Maybe pushes people back when they're airborne? Turn it into an anti-air mobility item? I don't know, this one is harder to figure out ways to still have the "feeling" of slow without really being slow.[/QUOTE]
Carry over the Knockback Rage from MvM and ditch one of the nerfs.
I'm still mad that there is chance that you may not be able to get the Big Kill in PN2.
Can someone tell me why it would be a bad thing to re-release it? Besides traders becoming pissed off because their reskinned revolver is no longer rare.
[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;40148582]I'm still mad that there is chance that you may not be able to get the Big Kill in PN2.
Can someone tell me why it would be a bad thing to re-release it? Besides traders becoming pissed off because their reskinned revolver is no longer rare.[/QUOTE]
It's more a matter of Vintage Big Kills already existing, which are worth huge sums - nearly 25 Earbuds.
If they make all existing ones vintage like they did the Lugermorph... What becomes of the old vintage ones?
[QUOTE=Everything;40148813]It's more a matter of Vintage Big Kills already existing, which are worth huge sums.
If they make all existing ones vintage like they did the Lugermorph... What becomes of the old vintage ones?[/QUOTE]
Unique > Vintage > Ancient
Antique quality would be nice, with brick red text and subtext in its description "It smells faintly of an era gone by..."
[QUOTE=Everything;40148813]It's more a matter of Vintage Big Kills already existing, which are worth huge sums.
If they make all existing ones vintage like they did the Lugermorph... What becomes of the old vintage ones?[/QUOTE]
Even then it would only make 8 people mad. But I liked a suggestion awhile back saying that achievement items from other games should have the unused qualities of Rarity2 or Rarity3. So they don't have to do anything to the original Big Kills that will screw the 8 people with the vintage ones.
Not many people would be affected, yeah, but you'd be pretty mad if you lost around $850. :|
v. Big Kills are glitches anyhow, Why should Valve care about those people? It would be better (from a business standpoint) for Valve to re-distribute unique Big Kills in the hope that it would boost sales.
using my psychic powers I predict something to do with tf2 will happen tomorrow
[QUOTE=HazzaHardie;40149039]using my psychic powers I predict something to do with tf2 will happen tomorrow[/QUOTE]
Rub your Strange Jag and it will come true.
[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;40148582]I'm still mad that there is chance that you may not be able to get the Big Kill in PN2.
Can someone tell me why it would be a bad thing to re-release it? Besides traders becoming pissed off because their reskinned revolver is no longer rare.[/QUOTE]
A chance? I think [url=http://www.telltalegames.com/pokernight2/unlocks/steam]this[/url] confirmed beyond a doubt they're not re-releasing the big kill. Like I said when everyone was going on about 'oh good now I can get a big kill' 'I hope they put the big kill in', they're not going to do that after what happened last time.
[QUOTE=Mr. Magoolachub;40149139]A chance? I think [url=http://www.telltalegames.com/pokernight2/unlocks/steam]this[/url] confirmed beyond a doubt they're not re-releasing the big kill. Like I said when everyone was going on about 'oh good now I can get a big kill' 'I hope they put the big kill in', they're not going to do that after what happened last time.[/QUOTE]
What happened last time? People complaining because their Lugermorph was no longer rare?
I tried to make a strange jag rubbing gif.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4FrEhA6.gif[/IMG]
key word is tried.
[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;40149201]What happened last time? People complaining because their Lugermorph was no longer rare?[/QUOTE]
Yep. I wouldn't mind having a vintage big kill.
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