Minor Update Speculation v18: New world order - Games

-snip, because saying negative things about reddit is taboo- Is there any other documentation about what to expect with the SteamPipe update, or are the few words on the support pages all we have to go on? I'm curious how to package gamemodes etc. into the whole thing.

[QUOTE=RevengeDeath;40162293]*Snoo's Severed Head [SUB](WTF IS A SNOO?!)[/SUB][/QUOTE] From what I can tell Snoo is the aliens name.

[QUOTE=RevengeDeath;40162293]*Snoo's Severed Head [SUB](WTF IS A SNOO?!)[/SUB][/QUOTE] I don't know what a snoo is, but if there was two of them I'd totally know that. [IMG]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m98csggFan1rrtjkio1_500.jpg[/IMG] :v:

[QUOTE=Shinx;40162541]-snip, because saying negative things about reddit is taboo- Is there any other documentation about what to expect with the SteamPipe update, or are the few words on the support pages all we have to go on? I'm curious how to package gamemodes etc. into the whole thing.[/QUOTE] We'll I'm not an expert but all I know is that we can expect faster load times and a reorganization of files(?) but you probably already knew that.

Crosspost with the "Original Weapon Ideas" thread, looking to get feedback on these stats I made up for the (possibly) upcoming Griefblower and Head Trimmer. [t]http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4439/comp11.jpg[/t] [B]The Griefblower[/B] [B]Level 80 Combustable Leafblower[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Reflected objects increase 'REV', activate to get a "rapid fire" airblast that is always on stand-by (starts out at 0, any objects reflected will bring the meter up by 2 seconds, caps at 10, can be triggered with Special Attack key.) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] -50% airblast cost (20 airblasts instead of 10) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -50% afterburn duration (30 afterburn damage instead of 60) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -40 Fire Spread (leafblower has a tight cone.) [t]http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/7530/trimmer.jpg[/t] [B]The Head Trimmer[/B] [B]Level 67 Mispurposed Scythe[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] On Kill: +0.5 afterburn damage for flamethrower (Caps at +2 afterburn damage) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Longer melee range (scythes can get pretty long) (Caps at +2 afterburn damage) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -20 Damage (sorta flimsy weapon) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] +50% faster swing speed (it seems somewhat light.) These are not at all perfect, since I'm pretty bad with all the stat %s and numbers.

[QUOTE=VietRooster2;40163394]Crosspost with the "Original Weapon Ideas" thread, looking to get feedback on these stats I made up for the (possibly) upcoming Griefblower and Head Trimmer. [t]http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4439/comp11.jpg[/t] [B]The Griefblower[/B] [B]Level 80 Combustable Leafblower[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Reflected objects increase 'REV', activate to get a "rapid fire" airblast that is always on stand-by (starts out at 0, any objects reflected will bring the meter up by 2 seconds, caps at 10, can be triggered with Special Attack key.) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] -50% airblast cost (20 airblasts instead of 10) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -50% afterburn duration (30 afterburn damage instead of 60) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -40 Fire Spread (leafblower has a tight cone.) [t]http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/7530/trimmer.jpg[/t] [B]The Head Trimmer[/B] [B]Level 67 Mispurposed Scythe[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] On Kill: +0.5 afterburn damage for flamethrower (Caps at +2 afterburn damage) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Longer melee range (scythes can get pretty long) (Caps at +2 afterburn damage) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -20 Damage (sorta flismy weapon) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] +50% faster swing speed (it seems somewhat light.) These are not at all perfect, since I'm pretty bad with all the stat %s and numbers.[/QUOTE] So the scythe is independent to if you have the griefblower or not it adds afterburn right? you should add a second instead of .5

[QUOTE=VietRooster2;40163394]Crosspost with the "Original Weapon Ideas" thread, looking to get feedback on these stats I made up for the (possibly) upcoming Griefblower and Head Trimmer. [t]http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4439/comp11.jpg[/t] [B]The Griefblower[/B] [B]Level 80 Combustable Leafblower[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Reflected objects increase 'REV', activate to get a "rapid fire" airblast that is always on stand-by (starts out at 0, any objects reflected will bring the meter up by 2 seconds, caps at 10, can be triggered with Special Attack key.) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] -50% airblast cost (20 airblasts instead of 10) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -50% afterburn duration (30 afterburn damage instead of 60) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -40 Fire Spread (leafblower has a tight cone.) [t]http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/7530/trimmer.jpg[/t] [B]The Head Trimmer[/B] [B]Level 67 Mispurposed Scythe[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] On Kill: +0.5 afterburn damage for flamethrower (Caps at +2 afterburn damage) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Longer melee range (scythes can get pretty long) (Caps at +2 afterburn damage) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -20 Damage (sorta flismy weapon) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] +50% faster swing speed (it seems somewhat light.) These are not at all perfect, since I'm pretty bad with all the stat %s and numbers.[/QUOTE] i remember when the pyro was supposed to be an ambush class and not a mash m2 class [I]better times [/I]

[QUOTE=Robmortar;40163690]i remember when the pyro was supposed to be an ambush class and not a mash m2 class [I]better times [/I][/QUOTE] If you actually ambush enemies you get called a w+m1, you can't avoid getting insulted so i guess after all [I]the only thing to do is not to play[/I]

[QUOTE=ElGrifuz;40163754]If you actually ambush enemies you get called a w+m1, you can't avoid getting insulted so i guess after all [I]the only thing to do is not to play[/I][/QUOTE] No matter what a pyro does, he gets insulted. W+M1, airblast, Axtinguish, Flare, Pybro. Ultimately, the only way to solve it is to roast the little bastard talking crap until he ragequits.

[QUOTE=VietRooster2;40163394][t]http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/7530/trimmer.jpg[/t] [B]The Head Trimmer[/B] [B]Level 67 Mispurposed Scythe[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] On Kill: +0.5 afterburn damage for flamethrower (Caps at +2 afterburn damage) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Longer melee range (scythes can get pretty long) (Caps at +2 afterburn damage) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -20 Damage (sorta flismy weapon) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] +50% faster swing speed (it seems somewhat light.) These are not at all perfect, since I'm pretty bad with all the stat %s and numbers.[/QUOTE] Here's the thing: It's an upgrade due to the higher DPS. The only downside is the damage penalty, yet you can swing so much faster that the damage penalty doesn't matter. Remember the Eviction Notice? It's a downgrade since it has an overall lower DPS.

[QUOTE=AbeX300;40163801]Here's the thing: It's an upgrade due to the higher DPS. The only downside is the damage penalty, yet you can swing so much faster that the damage penalty doesn't matter.[/QUOTE] well what do you propose is changed, then? tone down the faster swing speed?

[QUOTE=VietRooster2;40163827]well what do you propose is changed, then? tone down the faster swing speed?[/QUOTE] Since it has an increased melee range and the ability to make your afterburn stronger, I suggest just removing it altogether. Possibly even making the damage penalty -30%.

Make the DPS slightly less than normal, and make the effect its upside to counteract that. Also, since it may be relied on extensively to farm extra damage for the flamer, add some risk to it by making the wielder 50% weaker to melee strikes?

[QUOTE=Everything;40163855]Make the DPS slightly less than normal, and make the effect its upside to counteract that. Also, since it may be relied on extensively to farm extra damage for the flamer, add some risk to it by making the wielder 50% weaker to melee strikes?[/QUOTE] I see what you mean, but what do you mean by "make the effect its upside to counteract that."?

[QUOTE=VietRooster2;40163882]I see what you mean, but what do you mean by "make the effect its upside to counteract that."?[/QUOTE] I believe he meant that the reward for killing and the extended melee range is worth it for the reduced damage.

[QUOTE=VietRooster2;40163827]well what do you propose is changed, then? tone down the faster swing speed?[/QUOTE] They can just add a penalty to the degreaser, probably -25~ damage resistance? just to make the fact that you can actually kill the pyro when you're on air maybe an airblast penalty like the backburner. -30% on airblast power probably so it's harder to puff and sting. anyway, there's tons of possibilities

[QUOTE=ElGrifuz;40163897]They can just add a penalty to the degreaser, probably -25~ damage resistance? just to make the fact that you can actually kill the pyro when you're on air maybe an airblast penalty like the backburner. -30% on airblast power probably so it's harder to puff and sting. anyway, there's tons of possibilities[/QUOTE] Or they could just reduce the weapon switch speed bonus.

[QUOTE=Everything;40163855]Make the DPS slightly less than normal, and make the effect its upside to counteract that.[/QUOTE] This is a good thing to understand for balancing any weapon: It keeps the stats simple by making the upsides and downsides clear. You get a bonus on kill and longer melee range as a tradeoff for less DPS, instead the same upsides and tacking on lower damage on hit AND faster weapon speed. The latter setup just makes things unnecessarily confusing IMO.

While we're on the subject of Pyro weapons, it would be nice to see a weapon with a downside that removed fire resistance in exchange for some other bonuses.

Changed a bit, any better? [t]http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/7530/trimmer.jpg[/t] [B]The Head Trimmer[/B] [B]Level 67 Mispurposed Scythe[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] On Kill: +0.5 afterburn damage for flamethrower (Caps at +2 afterburn damage) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Longer melee range [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] [B]+50% Damage from melee sources while active[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -20 Damage [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG] [B] +10%[/B] faster swing speed

I have to admit, if that scythe was in MvM, I would use that. Kill robots until the afterburn buff is maxed, and light up the groups with the Flamethrower.

[QUOTE=RevengeDeath;40163913]While we're on the subject of Pyro weapons, it would be nice to see a weapon with a downside that removed fire resistance in exchange for some other bonuses.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Afterburn"]Considering how there are only a couple of moments where afterburn can be applied to you[/URL], I think just an increased fire resistance would benefit the most. So it'd be like: [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] +20% fire damage resistance on wearer [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] Can be affected by afterburn 2 damage per tick from afterburn (3 if mini-crit), plus a bit more survivability from the direct damage of the Flamethrowers.

I know it's been said a million times, but they need to just add Spy's fireproof suit already. Revolver replacement, leaving just melee and sapper. + 50% resistance to fire + User will never ignite while disguised or cloaked So, more resistant to fire, plus the fact that a Pyro spraying fire everywhere won't effect you visually. You'd still take damage from it, but you'd never light up or make pain noises/gestures. The obvious downside being you're stuck with only your knife for offense. Something designed for deep undercover Spies who hate being randomly exposed by a stray fire particle.

[QUOTE=Everything;40164165]I know it's been said a million times, but they need to just add Spy's fireproof suit already. Revolver replacement, leaving just melee and sapper. + 50% resistance to fire + User will never ignite while disguised or cloaked So, more resistant to fire, plus the fact that a Pyro spraying fire everywhere won't effect you visually. You'd still take damage from it, but you'd never light up or make pain noises/gestures. The obvious downside being you're stuck with only your knife for offense. Something designed for deep undercover Spies who hate being randomly exposed by a stray fire particle.[/QUOTE] [url]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Fire_Retardant_Suit[/url]

[QUOTE=AbeX300;40163952][URL="http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Afterburn"]Considering how there are only a couple of moments where afterburn can be applied to you[/URL], I think just an increased fire resistance would benefit the most. So it'd be like: [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] +20% fire damage resistance on wearer [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] Can be affected by afterburn 2 damage per tick from afterburn (3 if mini-crit), plus a bit more survivability from the direct damage of the Flamethrowers.[/QUOTE] Pyro could really use a passive secondary. It would pretty much make him more focused on his primary and while weapons shouldn't be used to "Fix" a class it would be nice to have a playstyle not reliant on switching weapons (Longer range+more direct damage in exchange for tighter cone of fire please). If you've ever played fallout. I think a heavy incinerator type weapon could work really well; hit people from afar but without the high damage of the flare gun or knockback. Pyro's a really fun class to mess with I think because he isn't exactly ironed out yet. I can think of a ton of things that would synergize really well. [editline]4th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Everything;40164165]I know it's been said a million times, but they need to just add Spy's fireproof suit already. Revolver replacement, leaving just melee and sapper. + 50% resistance to fire + User will never ignite while disguised or cloaked So, more resistant to fire, plus the fact that a Pyro spraying fire everywhere won't effect you visually. You'd still take damage from it, but you'd never light up or make pain noises/gestures. The obvious downside being you're stuck with only your knife for offense. Something designed for deep undercover Spies who hate being randomly exposed by a stray fire particle.[/QUOTE] This isn't a bad idea at all it severely handicaps the spy without giving him too much of an advantage in a puppy guarded area but doesn't allow quite the same benefits of the dead ringer where you can just waltz through meat grinders. I still the dead ringer needs a reduction over time in damage resistance. You shouldn't necessarily be able to get away all the time if the enemy KNOWS you feigned.

Speaking of passive items, I want one that'd make Shotgun Heavy more viable in regular use. ~ Replaces Minigun + 50% max secondary ammo carried + 10% bullet and explosive damage resistance on wearer - 50% healing rate from Medics and Dispensers Would make Heavy rather tanky, and kit him out to work better while roaming, in exchange for your usual best friends - Medics and dispensers - being a lot less effective.

[QUOTE=Everything;40164303]Speaking of passive items, I want one that'd make Shotgun Heavy more viable in regular use. ~ Replaces Minigun + 50% max secondary ammo carried + 10% bullet and explosive damage resistance on wearer - 50% healing rate from Medics and Dispensers Would make Heavy rather tanky, and kit him out to work better while roaming, in exchange for your usual best friends - Medics and dispensers - being a lot less effective.[/QUOTE] Having +33 hypothetical health against bullets and explosive and getting less health from Medics and Dispensers sure does make the Heavy tanky. :v:

Not less health, just slower healing. Maybe adding a +35% or so health gained from health kits bonus would make things a bit better? Or slower decaying overheal / overheal obtained from healthpacks? It would, again, fit the roaming playstyle of the fatscout, especially the healthkit overheal thing.

Speaking as a Heavy main, I don't think any future unlock should encourage shotgun use. It's nothing but a sad relic from a past where Heavy was all but feckless.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;40164382]Speaking as a Heavy main, I don't think any future unlock should encourage shotgun use. It's nothing but a sad relic from a past where Heavy was all but feckless.[/QUOTE] And as another Heavy main, I've cleared final control points by myself just by chaining KGB hits with Family Business use back and forth, keeping constant crits flowing. Don't knock it till you try it. It's very potent, and a smart shotgun Heavy will often win face-to-face confrontation due to the fact his mobility isn't hampered and there's no warmup time. And 300 HP.