TF2 Emporium 51: Not late this time edition - YOU ALL HAVE A CHAT THREAD FOR CHATTING/OFFTOPIC, USE - Games

[QUOTE=LolzMan1325;39466361]Well... the way the glove and watched switched to the correct arm when using the huntsman was nice, and it's kinda disappointing that it isn't there anymore...[/QUOTE] This version doesn't change much so you can just use the previous version while I try and figure out what's causing the problem on this version.

[QUOTE=kenshin6;39465833]The texture on the front of the sign is way too clean. Give it some scratches and dirt[/QUOTE] Add some dents and bends as well. Maybe some graffiti like "Scout was here" or see about sticking the sticker from the Boom Bringer on it.

I hate to be the one to bring up old stuff, but I really wanted to see Badgerpig's original Scout Revolver model finished. Don't get me wrong, I love the Speedster's six-shooter, but the original concept seemed just too nice to dump.

[QUOTE=RetroMike;39466276]It's a pretty simple item so I'm not sure I could have done much more with it. There is more than just the addition of bolts but it might look better had I actually textured it as well. Either way, low priority right now, I've got items I actually wanna get on the workshop. And I have to ask, how is what I did here any different than what was done with the Heavies football helmet? That is pretty much just the football helmet with hard edges and bolts.[/QUOTE] the football helmet is also boring looking back but it was unique at the time of its release so it's an unfair standard.

[URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=124934630"]cool arms [img]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/1119411831355846852/C2DD3BCD15847F6A1A108FA88BE7376CBFA26E2C/[/img] [t]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1119411831355853725/37DF0A5C2BBFF237ECA7E9B53AC10F8166D28107/[/t] [/URL] click these armz

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;39467086]the football helmet is also boring looking back but it was unique at the time of its release so it's an unfair standard.[/QUOTE] I don't think it's unfair. The comparison is complexity, not how unique the idea is. A simple items results in a simple rework. The Hermes and Baker Bot are two more examples. Hard edges, paint wear and added bolts (with a nut in place of the button for the Baker Bot). Both simple, both well done.

[QUOTE=RetroMike;39467350]I don't think it's unfair. The comparison is complexity, not how unique the idea is. A simple items results in a simple rework. The Hermes and Baker Bot are two more examples. Hard edges, paint wear and added bolts (with a nut in place of the button for the Baker Bot). Both simple, both well done.[/QUOTE] While I agree that robot items don't need to be overcomplicated, I think that Venezuelan is right, the changes and details are way too small to be able to tell the difference between the original and this.

[QUOTE=MultiTrip;39467311][URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=124934630"]cool arms [img]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/1119411831355846852/C2DD3BCD15847F6A1A108FA88BE7376CBFA26E2C/[/img] click these armz[/QUOTE] can still see the shirt under the arms 0/10 would not wear again

[QUOTE=Manibogi;39467378]While I agree that robot items don't need to be overcomplicated, I think that Venezuelan is right, the changes and details are way too small to be able to tell the difference between the original and this.[/QUOTE] I'll concede that. It's a small item and half obscured by the Scouts hat when worn. I just don't think an item should be held to a different standard because it was first or not overly complicated Not that any of this matters in the long run. It wasn't made to be added to the pack, just as a quick one shot model while waiting for lunch. Well, time for some shut eye. Happy modeling all :)

[QUOTE=MultiTrip;39467311][URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=124934630"]cool arms [img]http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/1119411831355846852/C2DD3BCD15847F6A1A108FA88BE7376CBFA26E2C/[/img] [t]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1119411831355853725/37DF0A5C2BBFF237ECA7E9B53AC10F8166D28107/[/t] [/URL] click these armz[/QUOTE] The skin tone doesn't match hwguy's regular arms.

[QUOTE=RetroMike;39467350]I don't think it's unfair. The comparison is complexity, not how unique the idea is. A simple items results in a simple rework. The Hermes and Baker Bot are two more examples. Hard edges, paint wear and added bolts (with a nut in place of the button for the Baker Bot). Both simple, both well done.[/QUOTE] both big with larger, more noticeable bolts and wear, also

[QUOTE=RetroMike;39467443]I'll concede that. It's a small item and half obscured by the Scouts hat when worn. I just don't think an item should be held to a different standard because it was first or not overly complicated Not that any of this matters in the long run. It wasn't made to be added to the pack, just as a quick one shot model while waiting for lunch. Well, time for some shut eye. Happy modeling all :)[/QUOTE] The helm was made like that because the current loot in TF2 follow either of these rules: -Stays extremely similar to the original, only adding different paint, small extra features, and making it metallic-like (Stealth Steeler) -Is almost completely different to the original, albeit a similar idea, only retaining key features (U-clank-a) The Football Helm would obviously be the first style of robot hat.

oh I forgot the football helmet was community made scratch my first argument, only pay attention to my size argument

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;39467638]oh I forgot the football helmet was community made scratch my first argument, only pay attention to my size argument[/QUOTE] Im pretty sure valve made the football helmet

[QUOTE=Ermac20;39467745]Im pretty sure valve made the football helmet[/QUOTE] We can never be so sure. [url=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Officer%27s_Ushanka]I could've sworn that the Ushanka was actually community made...[/url]

I'm new to TF2 workshop submission, but experienced in other contexts. After much searching, piecemeal answers lead me to create a concise yet complete tutorial and I have some points I'd appreciate some help finding clarification of. Obviously any help and corrections are welcome. The English in my questions may seem somewhat chopped or awkward, but I assure you that my English is fine and that this was only done for the sake of brevity. [B][U]Basics:[/U][/B] The basics are pretty clear, but I'll list them generally in case I missed something. [U]Tools (some optional)(install is clear enough for each):[/U] -Source SDK -TF2 -3D modeler -image editor -text editor -SMD IO stuff -vtfedit -guistudiomdl -mdldecompiler -gcfscape [U]Process:[/U]import appropriate smd model and rig for reference. 1.model + smoothing 2.create jigglebones + parent bones + rig 3.unwrap + bake AO etc + texture 4.export smd 5.create vmt + vtf - mapping (bump/phong/normal/alpha) and shader stuff = vtf params 6.create qc - r/b = skinfamily 7.compile mdl 8.test + iterate + LODs(model + qc) 9.itemtest? 10.kill icons? + backpack icons? 11.submit 12.??? 14.profit [U][B]Questions:[/B][/U] Answered [HR][/HR]-Cloaking and animated textures are present in existing vtfs. Where can I find info on this/is there any? -Painting is really unclear to me. How do I indicate paintability? Where can I find info/tutorial? -Aside from jigglebone, where can I find details on physics (may involve something to do with automass and files created by itemtest)? Is there a point to setting these up or will they just be ignored anyways? -I've seen head replacement hats. How are they done differently? Where can I find information on this? -Misc items just cover existing base model? There's no way to replace geometry? Clothing that exposes skin not previously exposed does so above the existing base mesh? Otherwise, how? -Each class bears multi-class items differently so must we create and include versions for each intended class in our submission? -Styles are done by Valve? There's no way to do them client-side? So just create different models/textures separately, test and include in same submission with description/readme? -I've read that Valve ditches custom anims? Is there a point to any anims? idle? What about weapons that don't fit the norm (ie. different hand placement/movement/interactions needed)? Do I just write in description/readme? -Is there a point in custom sounds or particle systems in submissions or are they ditched as well? If they may be used, where can I find information on creating them? -Hours of searching ~180+ pages of workshop + store pages before starting just to make sure my ideas are not yet implemented is a pain. Is there a better way to check this or a policy about creating something that exists? Unanswered [HR][/HR] -Misc rig should emulate existing rigging for tf2 characters to avoid clipping during anims? Do I only need to include the bones that I'm rigging or the whole skeleton? -Where can I find info on custom engineer buildings? -Itemtest's export structure is encouraged in workshop. What about stuff not exported by itemtest? Since some stuff is going to be ignored by Valve, is there a clear guideline on what to include where, encompassing all things of relevance mentioned thus far? Is there a point to creating backpack and kill icons for example and where would I include them?

you should add someone experienced from the emporium who can help you out as you go as well.

[QUOTE=Sparkwire;39467917]my honest advice is to just dive in and learn as you go.you should add someone experienced from the emporium who can help you out as you go as well.[/QUOTE] Understood and thanks for the advice. I've already dived in. As I've said, the basics are well within my grasp. The scope of my current designs necessitates a knowledge beyond what I've been able to glean from ample searches which has led to the questions I posted. I feel that my google-fu has failed me. The questions themselves are already informed by the quasi-results I've found thus far and as such are mostly leading yes/no questions with a smattering of "where can I find more info on this?". Adding someone sounds great, but who? and adding them through which communication platform? I don't really know who's who here.

[QUOTE=skovacs1;39467881] [/B][/U]-Cloaking and animated textures are present in existing vtfs. Where can I find info on this/is there any?[/QUOTE] As far as I know the cloaking proxy allows the engine to use a cloaking shader on the model. Animated consist of texture proxies involving either scrolling textures or frames. I could be wrong These could also be helpful on the matter [url]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/VertexLitGeneric#Cloak[/url] [url]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Material_proxies[/url] [url]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/List_Of_Material_Proxies[/url]

[QUOTE=skovacs1;881] [U][B]Questions: [/B][/U]-Cloaking and animated textures are present in existing vtfs. Where can I find info on this/is there any? -Painting is really unclear to me. How do I indicate paintability? Where can I find info/tutorial? -Aside from jigglebone, where can I find details on physics (may involve something to do with automass and files created by itemtest)? Is there a point to setting these up or will they just be ignored anyways? -Misc items just cover existing base model? There's no way to replace geometry? Clothing that exposes skin not previously exposed does so above the existing base mesh? Otherwise, how? -If the above is true, Misc rig should emulate existing rigging for tf2 characters to avoid clipping during anims? Do I only need to include the bones that I'm rigging or the whole skeleton? -I've seen head replacement hats. How are they done differently? Where can I find information on this? -Where can I find info on custom engineer buildings? -I've read that Valve ditches custom anims? Is there a point to any anims? idle? What about weapons that don't fit the norm (ie. different hand placement/movement/interactions needed)? Do I just write in description/readme? -Each class bears multi-class items differently so must we create and include versions for each intended class in our submission? -Styles are done by Valve? There's no way to do them client-side? So just create different models/textures separately, test and include in same submission with description/readme? -Is there a point in custom sounds or particle systems in submissions or are they ditched as well? If they may be used, where can I find information on creating them? -Itemtest's export structure is encouraged in workshop. What about stuff not exported by itemtest? Since some stuff is going to be ignored by Valve, is there a clear guideline on what to include where, encompassing all things of relevance mentioned thus far? Is there a point to creating backpack and kill icons for example and where would I include them? -Hours of searching ~180+ pages of workshop + store pages before starting just to make sure my ideas are not yet implemented is a pain. Is there a better way to check this or a policy about creating something that exists?[/QUOTE] I don't feel like answering all of your questions, but to help you with a few: - Paint is done in the .vmt with the following code. Paint values are in RGB format and can be found [url=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Template:Painted_variants/Tutorial]here[/url]. There are more options for paint (ie tinting a texture versus replacing a texture's color) that can be found by looking around [url=https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Main_Page]here[/url]. [code] "$blendtintbybasealpha" "1" "$blendtintcoloroverbase" "0" "$colortint_base" "{130 93 69}" "$colortint_tmp" "[0 0 0]" [/code] - Physics variables for hat/misc/weapon models don't really make any appreciable difference. If you want a part of a model to look more realistic, though, jigglebones is what you need to use. - Some models replace bodygroups (ie Apparition's Aspect, Flip Flops, etc.) If there isn't already an existing cosmetic or weapon that replaces a part of the player model, assume your model can't replace that body part either. - All-class submissions require a different model for each class (to account for variable positioning), unless it's a simple misc like a pin or badge or something. - Styles are done by Valve. You simply submit the alt texture/model and they do the rest.

[QUOTE=BlueFlytrap;39468004]As far as I know the cloaking proxy allows the engine to use a cloaking shader on the model. Animated consist of texture proxies involving either scrolling textures or frames. I could be wrong These could also be helpful on the matter [url]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/VertexLitGeneric#Cloak[/url] [url]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Material_proxies[/url] [url]https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/List_Of_Material_Proxies[/url][/QUOTE] Excellent. That's exactly what I was looking for on that. My google results were not bringing me to that wiki page.

[QUOTE=skovacs1;39468062]Excellent. That's exactly what I was looking for on that. My google results were not bringing me to that wiki page.[/QUOTE] glad I could help. That the developer site is a very helpful place when it comes to the source engine, though admittedly it could use a few more explanations of some things.

[QUOTE=SgtR007;39468021]I don't feel like answering all of your questions, but to help you with a few:[/QUOTE] All help is welcome so thank you. [QUOTE=SgtR007;39468021]- Paint is done in the .vmt with the following code. Paint values are in RGB format and can be found [url=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Template:Painted_variants/Tutorial]here[/url]. There are more options for paint (ie tinting a texture versus replacing a texture's color) that can be found by looking around [url=https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Main_Page]here[/url]. [code] "$blendtintbybasealpha" "1" "$blendtintcoloroverbase" "0" "$colortint_base" "{130 93 69}" "$colortint_tmp" "[0 0 0]" [/code][/QUOTE] Hmm. Maybe I'm having a misconception here. I recall in [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X5QGx2TP_8&t=41m50s]HellJumper's tutorial[/url], he opened the football helmet vtf and there was an orange section described as being that way because paint works that way. Does not somthing need to be done in the vtf in order to designate paintable sections of an object? [QUOTE=SgtR007;39468021]- Physics variables for hat/misc/weapon models don't really make any appreciable difference. If you want a part of a model to look more realistic, though, jigglebones is what you need to use. - All-class submissions require a different model for each class (to account for variable positioning), unless it's a simple misc like a pin or badge or something. - Styles are done by Valve. You simply submit the alt texture/model and they do the rest.[/QUOTE] That's more or less what I thought based on my search results, hence the leading questions. Thank you for the confimation. [QUOTE=SgtR007;39468021]- Some models replace bodygroups (ie Apparition's Aspect, Flip Flops, etc.) If there isn't already an existing cosmetic or weapon that replaces a part of the player model, assume your model can't replace that body part either. [/QUOTE] That's sort of ambiguous on Valve's part. It's like it can be done, but at the same time, it cannot. Maybe, based on the concept, Valve might be willing to implement such changes on a case-by-case basis, but that seems unlikely to happen that often. For the concept of mine most related to this question, I would ideally want to remove the flac jacket from the demo and replace the clothing underneath so this seems like I'll have to come up with a creative workaround.

[QUOTE=skovacs1;39468251]Does not somthing need to be done in the vtf in order to designate paintable sections of an object?[/QUOTE] I'm not exactly sure, as I don't make models for TF2, but I believe that the paintable portions of a texture use alpha or something similar to that to designate paintability.

[QUOTE=HazzaHardie;39465778]so I started making this just for a video and other things but I then thought I might as well make it a proper item, so I've worked on it a bit more [t]http://puu.sh/1X85Q[/t][t]http://puu.sh/1X86b[/t] anyone got any ideas to make it more interesting?[/QUOTE] OCTAGON!

[QUOTE=skovacs1;39467881] -Misc items just cover existing base model? There's no way to replace geometry? Clothing that exposes skin not previously exposed does so above the existing base mesh? Otherwise, how? -If the above is true, Misc rig should emulate existing rigging for tf2 characters to avoid clipping during anims? Do I only need to include the bones that I'm rigging or the whole skeleton? [/QUOTE] i'm having some confusion on this too. [IMG]http://puu.sh/1XfrT[/IMG] my candy grenade replacements seem to clip when pyro taunts. is there a specific process to rigging that i messed up?

[QUOTE=dongalator;39468590]i'm having some confusion on this too. [IMG]http://puu.sh/1XfrT[/IMG] my candy grenade replacements seem to clip when pyro taunts. is there a specific process to rigging that i messed up?[/QUOTE] Did you rig them to the correct grenade bones? This image says that you did not.

why aren't those just rigged to grenade bones [editline]4th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=skovacs1;39468251]All help is welcome so thank you. Hmm. Maybe I'm having a misconception here. I recall in [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X5QGx2TP_8&t=41m50s]HellJumper's tutorial[/url], he opened the football helmet vtf and there was an orange section described as being that way because paint works that way. Does not somthing need to be done in the vtf in order to designate paintable sections of an object? That's more or less what I thought based on my search results, hence the leading questions. Thank you for the confimation. That's sort of ambiguous on Valve's part. It's like it can be done, but at the same time, it cannot. Maybe, based on the concept, Valve might be willing to implement such changes on a case-by-case basis, but that seems unlikely to happen that often. For the concept of mine most related to this question, I would ideally want to remove the flac jacket from the demo and replace the clothing underneath so this seems like I'll have to come up with a creative workaround.[/QUOTE] they will never make another bodygroup unless you're a promo maker, bodygroup is now a dirty word at valve and yes the alpha channel of the vtf determines which part is painted. also he forgot to give you the paint proxies

[QUOTE=kenshin6;39468631]Did you rig them to the correct grenade bones? This image says that you did not.[/QUOTE] i rigged them to "pyro_model prp_cannister1, 2 and 3". [IMG]http://puu.sh/1XfD1[/IMG]

[QUOTE=dongalator;39468643]i rigged them to "pyro_model prp_cannister1, 2 and 3". [IMG]http://puu.sh/1XfD1[/IMG][/QUOTE] did you maybe mix them up, rig to the wrong ones?