I think the players are perfect as they are, with the flat fingers. I'd focus more on weapons and cosmetics.
[QUOTE=NeoDement;35148006]Yeah but the style/polycount isn't meant to match HL1, it's meant to match a NDS game[/QUOTE]
actually from what i can recall it was originally for psp, considering the easy accessability we had to make homebrew with it at the time. and at the time, people like tom tallian, didnt know what capabilities it had in terms of models, this is from one of the most amazing psp games graphically, metal gear solid peacewalker
[img]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll164/OUTER_HEAVEN_1987/snaku.jpg[/img]
the game was meant to have small areas where the player was limited and teh maps were small, so detail for the models could be higher, a game like tf2 on psp... on the other hand... would have to have low quality players and ram intensive particles, and gameplay functions
now i agree with you its a bit much considering we all got used to the flat fingers, but theres a compromise i can offer that isnt good enough for me to just abandon these models, is do the same thing i did here, by adding all the fingers, but make them flat, this still causes clipping with just about EVERYTHING. because i have had to look at it forever, adding the dimension to the fingers was a nice change, for the better i think, now, my main inspiration for adding the fingers like this was grand theft auto liberty city stories, their polycount is a little higher (from what i can tell) and the fingers are squared off
[img]http://pspmedia.ign.com/psp/image/article/653/653414/grand-theft-auto-liberty-city-stories-20050923061140241.jpg[/img]
so, yeah, thats basically my opinion on why i did it the way i did, oh, and the inspiration for the "new" sniper hands for the c_models was from Medal of Honor: Heroes
[img]http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2007/319/reviews/942136_20071116_embed001.jpg[/img]
just to be completely and totally honest, i expected that these would get negative feedback, but i never thoght it would get as much praise as it did, EVER, i knew people would be saying taht they didnt like them because either 1. it would look like i just copy and pasted the default hands to the models (i didnt, entirely new mesh, the positions for the joints were however) 2. the extreme change from flat fingers to square fingers wouldnt be accepted because the flat were the original models. and on a third point to this whole thing is my rationalization for still doing it was that "if the models had these hands since the begining then there would be no controversy" but i knew from the start that people would dissagree with the change being the permanent default
final note, i will be making a flat version
but it will be a few days before i can do this, i have a previous obligation that i have to get to, i already look unreliable by not having it finished last week (even though they said i could have as much time as i needed)
Having too many different versions will just confuse the end user. Better to choose one and stick with it.
[editline]15th March 2012[/editline]
I vote for flat fingers.
[QUOTE=NeoDement;35149218]It's NDS not PSP coz no texture filtering[/QUOTE]
i think PSP and NDS can turn it off and on for certain things, i say that because the roads in flatout head on are not filtered while the cars are, and one of the nds rayman games has texture filtering throughout the whole game. but just to be honest here, turning the texture filtering off was a total and complete accident found by yours truly, if i hadnt found it me and revenant 100 would have figured out a way to deal with it by making the textures look better with the filtering on, be it by adjusting the uv maps, or the textures (then we would have been REALLY pisssed off when someone else found out how to turn the texture filtering off)
what went mainstram for each console is as you said, filtered for PSP non-filtered for NDS
(and dont worry about it, i didnt wanna say anything about it untill the vote was over, but whichever one doesnt make the cut will be released and updated as a seperate skin)
Modelised fingers for first person view? Is that possible?
[QUOTE=FreaXx;35151261]Modelised fingers for first person view? Is that possible?[/QUOTE]
wait... what?
[IMG]http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af3/Insaneicide/sniperhands.jpg[/IMG]
i think this is what your talking about...
the fingers in view models are already like that i believe. the issue is the world models.
and i agree, they should probably remain flat. the focus needs to be on weapons/shields/feet atm, several of which need new textures as well if theres someone willing to do that. hats are most definitely the lowest priority.
[T]http://i.imgur.com/vBGQE.jpg[/T]
Quick update on the Third Degree model. At this moment it has 204 verts and a shitty UV map that I'm going to re-work. Also I gotta check the lowpoly models and see if that clipping issue still exists.
You could probably cut down those tris even more by collapasing the front edges of the weapon so its a big triangle.
Yeah but then you'd need an opacity map, and that's usually less efficient than just a few extra polygons (I may have misunderstood)
Remember it also needs a selfillum map
Every time I check this thread it has exactly 3 new posts. Ahem...
Keep up the good work!
[QUOTE=SchnookieFace;35193670][T]http://i.imgur.com/pzJCl.jpg[/T]
[T]http://i.imgur.com/83HkF.jpg[/T][/QUOTE]
make sure in vtfedit in the left hand side when you have the vtff open to tick the pointsample box
looks amazing so far
Should phong be left on for lowpoly items, or do I just disable it in the VMT?
Edit: [T]http://i.imgur.com/4bXPw.jpg[/T]
I need this.
Just for the FPS boost it may provide.
Because my computer sucks so much dick, but I love me some TF2.
[QUOTE=SchnookieFace;35195068]Should phong be left on for lowpoly items, or do I just disable it in the VMT?
Edit: [T]http://i.imgur.com/4bXPw.jpg[/T][/QUOTE]
well, it all depends, when Revenant 100 was onboard he made custom phong lighting and normals for certain models, depending on the need for it, i would say keep it on there, anyone that cant use it, wont see it, DX8 wont see it, just the rimlighting (i know because when i started he talked about phong and how he was perfecting it, and i wasnt seeing any changes except for in the rimlighting here and there) so for those using it for the nostalgia probably, but it wont matter for those that need it, personally i say yes just because of the current pack's consistency uses phong great work by the way, oh, and for future screenshots, download the most recent pack from the dropbox under the TF folder
Phong is the biggest controversy around this pack for some reason. The original low poly models by Tom Tallian aren't designed for phong and have some specular highlights fake painted directly into the diffuse.
This results in highlights coming from multiple angles at once - the ones drawn in the diffuse, and the ones calculated by phong shading. And that's just wrong, for it to be correct you'd have to erase the specular highlights painted on by Mr. Tallian, and I'd really rather you didn't.
Besides, unless you're going to give everything it's own specular map (bad optimisation for this pack) the phong won't even look at all correct. A general level of shine all over despite the differing types of surfaces.
Think about it technically too. This pack is designed to give the game the look as if it was being played on some handheld console. Handheld consoles very rarely have the CPU cycles to spare for calculating phong (I haven't seen any with phong but I could be wrong), and they definitely wouldn't in this case, as the amount of chaos and networking code (that would never work on a console) TF2 involves would definitely take priority over realistic phong shading. If they did have the processing power required for phong, they'd also need to store an alpha channel for a lot of items (especially characters, viewmodels) in order to make the shininess look correct, which is a waste of resources a handheld just doesn't have.
It also just looks plain strange seeing perfectly formed smooth specular highlights next to the huge pixels making up diffuse of the characters. It would make a bit more sense if texture filtering was turned back on, but that's not the right look for these assets.
FINALLY (this feels like an essay), it's simply another thing to do for every asset that's created, resulting in more tweaking required to get a good result, meaning the project will take longer than it needs to.
I haven't seen any proper arguments for why phong should be enabled in this pack. There's possibly the thing of defining characters better in dimly lit environments, but that's more rimlighting's job. I think rimlighting should be left on (for characters at least) because it affects gameplay. If there's a way (possibly with custom lightwarps) to give an extremely harsh falloff to the rimlight, that would be good as it would probably compliment their pixellated look better than the usual smooth gradient.
[QUOTE=NeoDement;35199885]Phong is the biggest controversy around this pack for some reason. [/quote]
i honestly didn't think it was
[QUOTE=NeoDement;35199885]
Besides, unless you're going to give everything it's own specular map (bad optimisation for this pack) the phong won't even look at all correct. A general level of shine all over despite the differing types of surfaces.
[/quote]
well, no and yes, i let revenant 100 call those shots i didnt even know anything about the VMT's at the time, he didnt add it to everything just what didnt shade properly. and at the time it was like this Revenant 100 = had dx9 = wanted phong.| Insaneicide = had dx8 = wanted pixelised normal maps. but my idea never happened
[QUOTE=NeoDement;35199885]
Think about it technically too. This pack is designed to give the game the look as if it was being played on some handheld console. Handheld consoles very rarely have the CPU cycles to spare for calculating phong (I haven't seen any with phong but I could be wrong), and they definitely wouldn't in this case, as the amount of chaos and networking code (that would never work on a console) TF2 involves would definitely take priority over realistic phong shading. If they did have the processing power required for phong, they'd also need to store an alpha channel for a lot of items (especially characters, viewmodels) in order to make the shininess look correct, which is a waste of resources a handheld just doesn't have.
It also just looks plain strange seeing perfectly formed smooth specular highlights next to the huge pixels making up diffuse of the characters. It would make a bit more sense if texture filtering was turned back on, but that's not the right look for these assets.
FINALLY (this feels like an essay), it's simply another thing to do for every asset that's created, resulting in more tweaking required to get a good result, meaning the project will take longer than it needs to.
I haven't seen any proper arguments for why phong should be enabled in this pack. There's possibly the thing of defining characters better in dimly lit environments, but that's more rim-lighting's job. I think rim-lighting should be left on (for characters at least) because it affects game-play. If there's a way (possibly with custom lightwarps) to give an extremely harsh falloff to the rim-light, that would be good as it would probably compliment their pixellated look better than the usual smooth gradient.[/QUOTE]
finally, i agree with you, completely and totally, i was just telling schnookie face that since it was already done, why not continue with consistency, only those using dx8 need the pack, and wont see it. those using dx9 are probably powerful enough to run the game without problems, its gonna be a bitch getting it done, but its just a few lines of vmt code to remove, im gonna keep a copy tho, just in case.
Alrighty then. I'll just fix up the clipping with the lowpoly hands then release it.
Edit:
[T]http://i.imgur.com/jC1CC.jpg[/T]
[URL="http://www.mediafire.com/?woidt3aqt2ta6fl"]Step right up and get some.[/URL]
Will this actually make the game run smoother? Because i'd like my game to run better on the laptop, without using the ingame lowres textures and models.
It should help with the FPS, but depending on how slow it is you may need something more.
Also, any suggestions on which weapon I do next?
not sure if i should ask you to do one of the newer primary weapons, or to finish this
[IMG]http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af3/Insaneicide/tf2%20oldschool%20devstuffs/mangler.jpg[/IMG]
the model is done, it just needs UV's and textures
[IMG]http://www.imgbomb.com/i/d15/uyc51.png[/IMG]
Good job on the model!
[QUOTE=SchnookieFace;35225009]It should help with the FPS, but depending on how slow it is you may need something more.
Also, any suggestions on which weapon I do next?[/QUOTE]
Well, the game runs fine on medium and sometimes high, so it shouldn't be a problem.
I think you should do the original or muttonchops :3
Edit: Just saw that someone already did the original! Then you could do the whip maybe?
Alright then, I'll UV the cowmangler and then the whip.
[QUOTE=Insaneicide;35226763]not sure if i should ask you to do one of the newer primary weapons, or to finish this
[IMG]http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af3/Insaneicide/tf2%20oldschool%20devstuffs/mangler.jpg[/IMG]
the model is done, it just needs UV's and textures[/QUOTE]
I like how you posted low-quality .jpg screenshots of low-quality models :v:
aright, all set th mangler is in my folder as an OBJ
Sadly... you cant be able to play Versus Saxton Hale with this.. because any will see CBS,Vagineer,space hale,hale... will be invisibly
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