The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights - Games

[QUOTE=Deodorant;40788087]Considering DatWut's ambition to compile the 'results' of this thread in a mail to Valve, should we start trying to sum up some of the debate on the most discussed weapons? Here's what I've gathered from the Axtinguisher/Degreaser discussion, for example; there seems to be a relative consensus (which I personally disagree with, but that's beside the point) that the Axtinguisher/Degreaser combo is unfair, but a lot of people seem to think both weapons are basically ok on their own. The two most popular suggested tweaks are: [B]1)[/B] Move the Degreaser's weapon switch speed bonus to the Gas Jockey's Gear set and move the GJG speed bonus to the Degreaser in return. [B]2)[/B] Replace the Axtinguisher's 50% damage penalty against non-burning players with a 30% general damage penalty. Correct me if you think I've gotten the consensus wrong. There's also a fair number of tweaks on various weapons throughout the thread that have 10+ positive ratings and no negative ratings. Should we consider those agreed upon?[/QUOTE] My idea was not to submit only 1 proposed "fix", but several people seemed to like.

[QUOTE=DatWut?;40628735][B]The Hibernating Bear[/B] +5% Critical Hit Resistance [U]+10% movement speed[/U] That would increase the Heavy's movement speed to 87%, which is 7% more than a Soldier, but still 6% less than a Demoman. Since you're forced to use a Minigun (well, Gatling gun) that spins up quite slow to utilize the set bonus, you'd have the ability for a faster position change before making you nearly immobile again (spinning the Brass Beast).[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;40622973]Actually, how about this? [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/64/Backpack_Ali_Baba%27s_Wee_Booties.png/90px-Backpack_Ali_Baba%27s_Wee_Booties.png[/IMG] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] +25 max health on wearer [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] +100% increase in turning control while charging [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/8/86/Backpack_Bootlegger.png/90px-Backpack_Bootlegger.png[/IMG] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] -60% blast damage from sticky jumps And since we wouldn't want the other Swashbuckler's Swag weapon to be left out: [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/0/0d/Backpack_Scottish_Handshake.png/90px-Backpack_Scottish_Handshake.png[/IMG] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Deals crits while the wielder is sticky jumping [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] No random critical hits [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG] -50% damage penalty while not sticky jumping[I], since the Demoman actually has melee weapons that aren't straight upgrades[/I][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Bynine;40655335][IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/c/cf/Backpack_Jag.png/90px-Backpack_Jag.png[/IMG] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] 30% faster construction rate [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -40% damage penalty This isn't actually a nerf; the 30% faster construction rate on the Jag is a lie. The increase is more like 16%, which is fairly marginal and makes the weapon kind of bland and mediocre. So make it work the way it was intended, and have the genuine 30% increase, but don't allow crits from it to even kill 125 health classes, making it more difficult to defend yourself from Spies and thus giving it an actual downside.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=DoctorQ;40669256][img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/b1/Item_icon_L%27Etranger.png/100px-Item_icon_L%27Etranger.png[/img] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] On hit adds 15% charge to cloak and increases cloak charge regeneration rate by 10% for 2 seconds [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -20% damage penalty [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/b4/Item_icon_Diamondback.png/100px-Item_icon_Diamondback.png[/img] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Earns 1 crit shot for each building destroyed with a Sapper attached, and each Engineer or Medic the Spy backstabs (can hold up to 35, Spy gains 2 crits if the Engineer or Medic he backstabs is carrying a building or has full ubercharge) [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -15% damage penalty [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] No random critical hits [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/b/b7/Item_icon_Dead_Ringer.png/100px-Item_icon_Dead_Ringer.png[/img] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Reduces initial damage and subsequent damage received to a fraction (1/10) and cloak does not flicker when bumping into an enemy, but only for the standard cloak duration. Prolonging the cloak will turn it into a standard invisibility [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Has 60% faster cloak recharge rate [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/img] Cloaks Spy for 6.5 seconds upon receiving damage, dropping a fake corpse [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/img] Cloak meter can be refilled from ammo sources [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] Has a loud, distinctive decloak sound [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] Uncloaking will lower the cloak meter to 40% if above that amount when uncloaking [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] Large and medium ammo boxes restore 35% cloak (instead of 100% and 50% respectively) [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] Melee damage is unaffected by damage reduction[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=hawkus;40716020][b]Heavy[/b] [b]Tomislav[/b] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+15% faster spin up time [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+15% faster move speed while deployed [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]-30% slower firing speed [b]Family Business[/b] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+33% clip size [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+30% more accurate [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]-15% damage penalty Set bonus: +x% faster weapon switch My idea is that these weapons increase mobility, and help the Heavy have a stronger mid-long range game. They wouldn't have as much raw damage output then a stock load-out, but be able to push faster as support gunner with the team. [b]Engineer[/b] [b]Jag[/b] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+30% faster construction rate [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]+20% faster firing speed [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]-35% damage penalty [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]-25 max health on wearer For this change, the effects of the Jag are greatly exaggerated. The Engineer can put up buildings much quicker and maintain their health, in exchange for greatly weakening the Engineer himself. The health penalty makes him much more fragile, which I think is a fair exchange for having such an increase in building rate because a dead Engineer can't defend his stuff at all. It might not be too great of a change because it encourages turtling, but I think that is what they tried to balance with the Jag, but ultimately made its effects very negligible.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Psychopath12;40767078][img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/e/e3/Backpack_Machina.png/90px-Backpack_Machina.png[/img] [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]Critical hits deal 15% more damage [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img]Critical hits penetrate players [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]Cannot fire unless zoomed [img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img]Fires tracer rounds Look at how easy it is to completely change the stigma behind using a particular weapon. As an added bonus, mini-crits are still technically considered a type of critical hit. So there's some actual synergy with mini-crit debuffs such as Jarate or buffs like the Buff Banner.[/QUOTE] I didn't see any disagreements on these posts, so I'll just bring them back for reference. As for the Axtinguisher, I still prefer the idea of reversing the Gas Jockey bonus and Degreaser bonus rather than nerfing the Axtinguisher itself, because the Axtinguisher can be very useful with the stock flamethrower as well and I wouldn't want that to go away. However we still haven't really reached an agreement there.

[QUOTE=Bynine;40788567] As for the Axtinguisher, I still prefer the idea of reversing the Gas Jockey bonus and Degreaser bonus rather than nerfing the Axtinguisher itself, because the Axtinguisher can be very useful with the stock flamethrower as well and I wouldn't want that to go away. However we still haven't really reached an agreement there.[/QUOTE] The idea I posted doesn't nerf the Axtinguisher. Just in combination with the Degreaser it's nerfed. No idea why people didn't like the idea.

Buffing useless weapons that nobody uses is okay, but the most important thing is nerfing the popular ones that actually need nerfing, because they ruin the game for some people, unlike the former. And we never get to any universal agreements on those fronts. At the very best we agree that they are bad, but when it comes to nerfing them, people who use them get scared they might become less fun to use.

As it is now the damage on the direct hit is an abomination. I can't recall just how many arena matches I've seen ruined by a critical hit from this thing. Isn't there any way to tweak it to make it just a little less gruesome? 'cause as of now this thing is borderline undodgeable at mid to close range.

[QUOTE=Scarabix;40789289]As it is now the damage on the direct hit is an abomination. I can't recall just how many arena matches I've seen ruined by a critical hit from this thing. Isn't there any way to tweak it to make it just a little less gruesome? 'cause as of now this thing is borderline undodgeable at mid to close range.[/QUOTE] It's a 25% damage increase that takes away your ability to damage anyone unless you hit them dead on You're telling me a regular crocket isn't as bad?

What about the adjustments to the Natascha I suggested? It's pretty much useless the way it is now.

[QUOTE=Deodorant;40786368] -snip'd- The problem is, Gunslinger Engineers can easily outclass me[I] even if they themselves are much worse[/I]. -snip- And yeah, of course it's possible to take out minisentries when you have your teammates to support you. What does that prove? If a certain item makes one player so powerful that it takes several players to counter it, that seems pretty close to the definition of unbalanced. By the way I'm saying this as someone who partially mains Gunslinger Engineer.[/QUOTE] The hard counter to pyro has always been there for an engineer, this is the same as it's always been. Saying support shouldn't be necessary to take down a sentry is silly imo, it's not like Ubers are commonly used for sentires, oh wait, yes they are. [editline]26th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Drury;40787292]It is the only real counter to roamer classes, and by roamer classes I mean pyro, scout, spy, soldier, demoman, anyone who goes ahead of their team to take care of things that their team isn't able to take care of, such as picking off medics and strong players. It is a kind of teamwork and it is needed for game balance. And minis counter every single one of those classes effortlessly. It's overpowered and annoying at once, two most major reasons to nerf an item.[/QUOTE] Regular sentires also were the main counter to anyone flanking before, sneaking round the back of enemy team, think your home free, turn and corner and Boom, dead. Nothing has changed in class balance. [editline]26th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Deodorant;40788087]Considering DatWut's ambition to compile the 'results' of this thread in a mail to Valve, should we start trying to sum up some of the debate on the most discussed weapons? Here's what I've gathered from the Axtinguisher/Degreaser discussion, for example; there seems to be a relative consensus (which I personally disagree with, but that's beside the point) that the Axtinguisher/Degreaser combo is unfair, but a lot of people seem to think both weapons are basically ok on their own. The two most popular suggested tweaks are: [B]1)[/B] Move the Degreaser's weapon switch speed bonus to the Gas Jockey's Gear set and move the GJG speed bonus to the Degreaser in return. [B]2)[/B] Replace the Axtinguisher's 50% damage penalty against non-burning players with a 30% general damage penalty. Correct me if you think I've gotten the consensus wrong. There's also a fair number of tweaks on various weapons throughout the thread that have 10+ positive ratings and no negative ratings. Should we consider those agreed upon?[/QUOTE] 2 is the only one i've seen consensus on, and that's not really a huge change,kinda just a change in the wording of the stats to make it more understandable. I think anything kinda agreed upon should be rounded up but then asked to be voted on again to make sure.

[QUOTE=RandomGamer342;40789327]It's a 25% damage increase that takes away your ability to damage anyone unless you hit them dead on You're telling me a regular crocket isn't as bad?[/QUOTE] The regular crocket is easier to avoid.

[QUOTE=Scarabix;40789874]The regular crocket is easier to avoid.[/QUOTE] The direct hit rewards you for [I]directly hitting[/I] your enemy. If they have good aim and get a crit, Then they deserved that kill.

[QUOTE=theharribokid;40789627]The hard counter to pyro has always been there for an engineer, this is the same as it's always been. Saying support shouldn't be necessary to take down a sentry is silly imo, it's not like Ubers are commonly used for sentires, oh wait, yes they are.[/QUOTE] Minisentries and regular sentries are completely different things. A complete regular sentry nest takes a fair bit of time to set up, and the Engineer needs his team to control the area in question for that duration, lest he gets killed halfway through the process. Level 3 sentries require a collective effort to create, and it only makes sense that the other team needs to make a collective effort to counter them. Minisentries can be deployed nigh-instantly, anywhere, by a single player. They can't move, but they can be destroyed and redeployed quickly enough to essentially function as mobile. The Engineer-Minisentry duo resemble an offensive combat class like the Pyro, Soldier or Demoman more than they resemble a turtling Engineer, and they should therefore be approximately as easy to counter as the three aforementioned classes.

[QUOTE=theharribokid;40789627]The hard counter to pyro has always been there for an engineer, this is the same as it's always been. Saying support shouldn't be necessary to take down a sentry is silly imo, it's not like Ubers are commonly used for sentires, oh wait, yes they are. [editline]26th May 2013[/editline] Regular sentires also were the main counter to anyone flanking before, sneaking round the back of enemy team, think your home free, turn and corner and Boom, dead. Nothing has changed in class balance.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Drury;40775097]I wonder how many more times will I have to argue about minis with people who don't play roamer classes. They never have a clue what it's like being countered by it and raise weird arguments that don't even make sense.[/QUOTE] Again, this comes to play. Minisentry is fundamentally different from big sentries. [b]A big sentry takes time to set up, and when you take it down it's down. Therefore engineers are forced to deploy them in places where they do not get blown up.[/b] Most maps are designed with this in mind and as a result sentries only exist in areas where there they can't protect major parts of the map by themselves and allow people to flank them. Dustbowl and Egypt are glorious examples of all of this thrown out the window. [b]Minis exist anywhere, because if you take one down, it takes absolutely no effort for the engineer to replace them instantly[/b]. This completely breaks the map balance and the classes that rely on it suffer the most. I'm not saying pyros and scout should be safe to promenade in front of sentries without harm, but on the other hand with big sentries they don't have to. As I said, good maps have big sentries in mind and flanks exist. They never have to walk in front of a sentry because there are walls restricting them from doing it. Bonk works well on other maps that aren't designed with sentries in mind. Minisentries aren't different from sentries only in how they kill people quickly, but they are different in how they break maps.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;40789923]The direct hit rewards you for [I]directly hitting[/I] your enemy. If they have good aim and get a crit, Then they deserved that kill.[/QUOTE] sometimes it's not about who deserves a kill, it's about who deserves to be killed. If you only get one shot at avoiding a very fast projectile, I don't care who fired it and how hard it was for him to get it right, you probably didn't deserve to die. I wish valve would keep instakills for snipers and spies only.

Here's an incredibly silly pair of ideas that stemmed purely from "hahaha that'd be funny" [B]The Equalizer[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]Base damage is increased to 49 [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]Has speed bonus again [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]Has the green skin again [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]Speed is capped at a 35% increase (324 HU/s) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]Can't be healed and all that jazz [B]The Escape Plan[/B] [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]Movement speed increases as the user becomes injured [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]While active: Wearer is (visually) in humiliation pose (ie you can still attack, you're not slowed down and you're not in third person) [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]-50% swing speed [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]-50% damage [IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/IMG]Model is a small tattered white flag on a stick

[QUOTE=Drury;40775097]two rockets, which is not enough to take down the engineer.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/cross.png[/IMG] taking an engi with 2 rockets isn't even close to unreasonable

A normal engineer, sure. But a medic level one, not so easy. Possible, but very unlikely while you're getting shot at by his minisentry.

What a scout should do if he sees a mini: Take it down out of its range with his pistol. What the scout does: Run at it trying to take it out with his scatter, gets killed, and then rages that they are op.

[QUOTE=lastshark;40795702]What a scout should do if he sees a mini: Take it down out of its range with his pistol.[/QUOTE] Meanwhile the Engineer is shotgunning the scout while the rest of his team is also attacking. Even if he does kill the minisentry, the Engineer can just poop out another one.

Can we please stop the mini sentry and axtinguisher debate and get to other weapons?

[QUOTE=R.M.T.B.;40795916]Can we please stop the mini sentry and axtinguisher debate and get to other weapons?[/QUOTE] Sure. I think the Winger is too similar to the default Pistol and should somehow be changed to be more interesting.

[QUOTE=mySvenLabs;40796141]Sure. I think the Winger is too similar to the default Pistol and should somehow be changed to be more interesting.[/QUOTE] I agree right now its like a straight downgrade

[QUOTE=mySvenLabs;40796141]Sure. I think the Winger is too similar to the default Pistol and should somehow be changed to be more interesting.[/QUOTE] It needs more syngery with the Soda Popper, if anything. What if, instead of -ammo/+damage, it dealt less damage (33% less, let's say) but mini-crits turned into full crits?

[QUOTE=Unisath;40796371]It needs more syngery with the Soda Popper, if anything. What if, instead of -ammo/+damage, it dealt less damage (33% less, let's say) but mini-crits turned into full crits?[/QUOTE] The Soda Popper's already a trainwreck of a weapon, designing things with the intent of making the Soda Popper in its current state have synergy with it is like cleaning a toilet bowl right before you need to take a huge dump.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;40796397]The Soda Popper's already a trainwreck of a weapon, designing things with the intent of making the Soda Popper in its current state have synergy with it is like cleaning a toilet bowl right before you need to take a huge dump.[/QUOTE] It's kind of hard to make any weapon actually on par with the Scattergun. The Soda Popper could have a new mechanic that replaces the mini-crits (and could actually be activatable instead of instant) that increased firing/reload speed on all your weapons for a short bit. I don't know, I'm just tossing shit around.

It's a trainwreck primarily because of the way it rewards players...for doing absolutely nothing productive or interesting. It'd be like rewarding the Engineer with a damage-resisting aura just for hitting his sentry a few times. Any competent Scout already moves around like a twitchy jumping bean, there's literally no reason to reward them for doing what they're already doing. There's a very simple way to change it though. Take the Hitman's Heatmaker for example. It rewards Snipers who are capable of contributing to kills (either being the killer or just via assist), and in return, they get a short burst of being even more powerful than before. Take that and apply to the Hype meter. Suddenly the thing is way less stupid, it rewards for killing and assisting in killing, plus if you get a killstreak going, you'll be able to sustain the additional damage much like how the Sniper stays in Focus if he can pop a few heads.

[QUOTE=mySvenLabs;40796141] I think the Winger is too similar to the default Pistol and should somehow be changed to be more interesting.[/QUOTE] Can't that be said for almost all of the weapons that came out of the uber update?

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;40796502]It's a trainwreck primarily because of the way it rewards players...for doing absolutely nothing productive or interesting. It'd be like rewarding the Engineer with a damage-resisting aura just for hitting his sentry a few times. Any competent Scout already moves around like a twitchy jumping bean, there's literally no reason to reward them for doing what they're already doing. There's a very simple way to change it though. Take the Hitman's Heatmaker for example. It rewards Snipers who are capable of contributing to kills (either being the killer or just via assist), and in return, they get a short burst of being even more powerful than before. Take that and apply to the Hype meter. Suddenly the thing is way less stupid, it rewards for killing and assisting in killing, plus if you get a killstreak going, you'll be able to sustain the additional damage much like how the Sniper stays in Focus if he can pop a few heads.[/QUOTE] Why don't we have it where only moving forward gets you closer to Minicrits, Running Backwards (Side to side as well?) will deplete it, And my 50% increase to many you need to fill the meter.

[QUOTE=StormBlink;40798779]Why don't we have it where only moving forward gets you closer to Minicrits, Running Backwards (Side to side as well?) will deplete it, And my 50% increase to many you need to fill the meter.[/QUOTE] That still rewards Scouts for doing what they should be doing in the first place: running. Twisting a bad idea doesn't make it any better of an idea, it's still a bad idea at the core.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;40798802]That still rewards Scouts for doing what they should be doing in the first place: running. Twisting a bad idea doesn't make it any better of an idea, it's still a bad idea at the core.[/QUOTE] I think it would be better to try to find what the concept of a weapon is before making a change to it. I really doubt that the Soda Popper was meant to reward you for just running around, but at least to me, it seems fairly plausible that it's meant to be a scattergun that's better when the objective is far away from spawn, where you'd theoretically hit max hype just as you enter the battle. And just thinking about it, it seems even more plausible considering it's called hype in the first place.

The hype metter should increase with damage dealt, but reseted if you reload. you have two shots? if you land enough damage with these two, you gain a small crit boost wich keeps you on the offensive in order to keep pumping damage over your foes. you can pair it with the crit-a-cola to boost your effort and increase your speed, but still get exposed to damage. in the end you'd have the following scenario: can be used as a regular FAN, with no knockback. it still deals considerable damage. you are rewarded and encouraged to aim and get close to your enemies for an extra boost of damage. running away from danger makes you lose that boost, and the chance to get minicrits as they last for mere seconds. basically, the concept of the original popper is still there (keep running). but you are rewarded for actually working towards gettingthat bost instead of simply jogging.