The "Weapon Fixing Megathread" - We fix weapons' stats and get in fights

[OzzyCockroach]

Imagine if the Liberty Launcher's 40% faster projectile speed was an 'on-wearer attribute'.

40% faster Righteous Bison rays for days!

[Mr. Jelly]

[QUOTE=OzzyCockroach;41051105]Imagine if the Liberty Launcher's 40% faster projectile speed was an 'on-wearer attribute'.

40% faster Righteous Bison rays for days![/QUOTE]

Only if it also makes me swing 40% faster

Look out, Scouts

Also I figured out the perfect (not really) Rocket Jumpadumper buff (note: not really serious)

[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/5/53/Item_icon_Rocket_Jumper.png/100px-Item_icon_Rocket_Jumper.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]Current stats
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]+50% Mini-sentry resistance

Now it's a viable weapon (not really)

[MyBumBum]

[QUOTE=Mr. Jelly;41051435]Only if it also makes me swing 40% faster

Look out, Scouts

Also I figured out the perfect (not really) Rocket Jumpadumper buff (note: not really serious)

[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/5/53/Item_icon_Rocket_Jumper.png/100px-Item_icon_Rocket_Jumper.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]Current stats
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]+50% Mini-sentry resistance

Now it's a viable weapon (not really)[/QUOTE]

Maybe even apply this to the sticky jumper

[kariko]

Homewrecker needs some sentry resistance too. I use it as it is because I like being a Pybro but still, it would be cool to use the building damage bonus.

[HouraiDoll]

[QUOTE=kariko;41054221]Homewrecker needs some sentry resistance too. I use it as it is because I like being a Pybro but still, it would be cool to use the building damage bonus.[/QUOTE]

[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/4/4a/Item_icon_Homewrecker.png/100px-Item_icon_Homewrecker.png[/img]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Deals double damage against enemy buildings
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] +50% Sentry damage resistance on wielder (Passive)
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] +45% Damage done from melee sources while active.
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] Deals 25% less damage against players.

Many people might disagree with these stats, but it makes it more offensive. Suggestions are open.

[Metaru]

the homewecker is meant to turn you into a buff for sentry nests and literally the only help engineers get from another class, not to become a bullet sponge to tank sentries.

let alone the downgrades would still kill you way before you could reach your target. remember no class should ever rush agasint a sentry without backup or unles they're a disguised spy, otherwise, they render them completely useless(the sentry).

you already have plenty other resources to take down entries besides simple brute force, and isnt like a sentry, even a lv3 one won't get taken down by two or three players ifleft unnatended.

most sugestions in this thread fail to fix weapons without actually considering how they will affect both the user and his target. adding defensive buffs to a weapon for situations where you are not meant to be alone doesnt fix anything at all, let alone nerf. remember you're not playing Quake 3 Arena.

[Drury]

[QUOTE=Mr. Jelly;41051435]Only if it also makes me swing 40% faster

Look out, Scouts

Also I figured out the perfect (not really) Rocket Jumpadumper buff (note: not really serious)

[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/5/53/Item_icon_Rocket_Jumper.png/100px-Item_icon_Rocket_Jumper.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]Current stats
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/IMG]+50% Mini-sentry resistance

Now it's a viable weapon (not really)[/QUOTE]

The thing is, this only fixes the minisentry for trolldiers. There are x more roaming classes left neutralized by it.

[Mentlegen]

Honestly, I'm not in support of damage resistance on the Homewrecker period. Some slight knockback resistance that makes it possible to charge down a Level 3 Sentry under certain circumstances, such as ubers, I'm in support of. I've tried Homewrecking a Sentry under an uber before, just to fail because of the insane knockback. Something that requires the player to sneak around walls and think about how to get to it instead of letting him just rush out the Sentry in unbalanced play. Could the Pyro in technicality rush it down with the knockback resistance? Yes. Would he live to see another day? Hell no. While ubered, he becomes an Engy nest destroying monster.

Just something small to help him out but only if he plays it smart.

[DatWut?]

I thought of four possibilities for the Winger;
-a slight speed buff (On Wearer-attribute)
-decresed damage fall-off
-slightly increased jump height
-decreased fall speed

[_Kilburn]

Homewrecker should make buildings violently explode with the force of a crit grenade upon destroying them. I can imagine tons of possible uses for this. :v:

[Drury]

That would take telecamping to a whole new level.

Whoever teleports in gets instanuked.

[theharribokid]

[QUOTE=HouraiDoll;41054257][img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/4/4a/Item_icon_Homewrecker.png/100px-Item_icon_Homewrecker.png[/img]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Deals double damage against enemy buildings
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] +50% Sentry damage resistance on wielder (Passive)
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] +45% Damage done from melee sources while active.
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] Deals 25% less damage against players.

Many people might disagree with these stats, but it makes it more offensive. Suggestions are open.[/QUOTE]

I fell like damage resistance is not what it need but a pushback resistance, not too much though, you shouldn't be able to run directly at it and make it to the sentry, but getting the drop on it you should be able to stay standing next to it for long enough to hit it 2 or 3 times.

my stats would be:
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/4/4a/Item_icon_Homewrecker.png/100px-Item_icon_Homewrecker.png[/img]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] 100% damage vs buildings
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] 20% Pushback resistance from Sentries when active
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Damage removes Sappers
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -25% damage vs players

[Deodorant]

I still think the Homewrecker should be split into one anti-building weapon and one anti-sapper weapon. I love both aspects of the Homewrecker, but the weapon is just really schizophrenic as it is.

'Pushback resistance from Sentries when active' would be a great bonus trait for the anti-sentry Homewrecker. I don't really know what bonus trait(s) the anti-sapper one should have.

[PSI Guy]

Anti-sapper anything is just a stupid idea, full-stop. Let's make Pyro useful outside of baby-sitting and defending, shall we?

[Zannabluke]

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;41078067]Anti-sapper anything is just a stupid idea, full-stop. Let's make Pyro useful outside of baby-sitting and defending, shall we?[/QUOTE]

the degreaxtinguisher combo already makes pyro a really aggressive class.

[MissingGlitch]

I know people have their own ideas on nerfing the Degreaser + Axtinguisher but I have a simple idea that does not change a lot of things that people are used to.

[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG] Guarantees Critical damage on burning targets.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG] Deals 50% less damage on non-burning targets.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG] No critical hits against non-burning targets.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG] Not affected by faster weapon switch times.

This way it only hurts the people that puff n' sting. It does nothing to the people that use the Axtinguisher with any other flamer, and it does not hurt the people that use the Degreaser with any other melee weapon.

But I suppose switching out the speed for the weapon switch as the bonus in the Gas Jockey set works also.

[DrDonut]

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;41078131]I know people have their own ideas on nerfing the Degreaser + Axtinguisher but I have a simple idea that does not change a lot of things that people are used to.

[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png?t=20110419094531[/IMG] Guarantees Critical damage on burning targets.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG] Deals 50% less damage on non-burning targets.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG] No critical hits against non-burning targets.
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png?t=20110419092839[/IMG] Not affected by faster weapon switch times.

This way it only hurts the people that puff n' sting. It does nothing to the people that use the Axtinguisher with any other flamer, and it does not hurt the people that use the Degreaser with any other melee weapon.

But I suppose switching out the speed for the weapon switch as the bonus in the Gas Jockey set works also.[/QUOTE]
Or you could move the switch speed bonus to the powerjack, but give the degreaser the 10% speed bonus. Then, remove the set bonus concept. Even though I own the set, I think sets are unfair in some aspects. Ones with downsides to match upsides are fair, but things like the milkman set just provide unfair advantages.

[NapyDaWise]

[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/4/4a/Item_icon_Homewrecker.png/100px-Item_icon_Homewrecker.png[/img]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Damage removes Sappers
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Use primary ammo as metal to upgrade buildings
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -25% damage vs players

[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/2e/Item_icon_Maul.png/100px-Item_icon_Maul.png[/img]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] 100% damage vs buildings
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] 20% Pushback resistance from Sentries when active
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -25% damage vs players

[Drury]

[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;41078723][img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Use primary ammo as metal to upgrade buildings[/QUOTE]

Ewwww. You could as well give the engineer a flamethrower and let the pyro turtle your nest while you go around W+M1ing people.

[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;41078723][img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] 20% Pushback resistance from Sentries when active[/QUOTE]

20% sentry knockback resistance is next to nothing. I tested it, 40% is minimum to make it viable to ambush a sentry from a corner and not get knocked away three miles. Without sentry damage resistance you die too fast to even make one swing, though.

[sp]That is, unless you were joking and I'm an idiot.[/sp]

[NapyDaWise]

[QUOTE=Drury;41079286]Ewwww. You could as well give the engineer a flamethrower and let the pyro turtle your nest while you go around W+M1ing people.

20% sentry knockback resistance is next to nothing. I tested it, 40% is minimum to make it viable to ambush a sentry from a corner and not get knocked away three miles. Without sentry damage resistance you die too fast to even make one swing, though.

[sp]That is, unless you were joking and I'm an idiot.[/sp][/QUOTE]

I'm part joking, but i think the homewrecker currently isn't really defined as a of now. Is it a tool? Is it a weapon?

Pyro's gameplay changes seems to be more driven by his melees than his primaries. Some helping doing high damage, some helping survive longer, and some using to defend and help.
When charging sentries (like with a uber), I usually just use the flamethrower. I'm all for spliting the homewrecker into 2 entities, and since there's already a reskin for that it's doesn't even need an new model.
The homewrecker would stay a tool, helping engineer, and could use a slight buff/nerf to really change the pyro's gameplay just like the targe change the demoman's gameplay. If it's not upgrading building (which is really op :v:), it could be repairing or just replacing ammo.

The maul on the other hand would become a sentry busting weapon, with pushback/damage resistance. Pushback could even applies to every weapon, making the pyro better against soldier/demo maybe.

Just ideas right now, but i'd love to get complete new and usefull team oriented pyro playstyle other than puff'n'sting and all it's variant.

[ASIC]

[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;41079481]I'm part joking, but i think the homewrecker currently isn't really defined as a of now. Is it a tool? Is it a weapon?

Pyro's gameplay changes seems to be more driven by his melees than his primaries. Some helping doing high damage, some helping survive longer, and some using to defend and help.
When charging sentries (like with a uber), I usually just use the flamethrower. I'm all for spliting the homewrecker into 2 entities, and since there's already a reskin for that it's doesn't even need an new model.
The homewrecker would stay a tool, helping engineer, and could use a slight buff/nerf to really change the pyro's gameplay just like the targe change the demoman's gameplay. If it's not upgrading building (which is really op :v:), it could be repairing or just replacing ammo.

The maul on the other hand would become a sentry busting weapon, with pushback/damage resistance. Pushback could even applies to every weapon, making the pyro better against soldier/demo maybe.

Just ideas right now, but i'd love to get complete new and usefull team oriented pyro playstyle other than puff'n'sting and all it's variant.[/QUOTE]

The thing about the maul is that is it a reskin and more expensive then most craft hats.
I think that it should stay a reskin of the homewrecker.

Maybe give the homewrecker both sentry damage resistance and sentry knockback resistance.

[DatWut?]

[QUOTE=Deodorant;41077988]I still think the Homewrecker should be split into one anti-building weapon and one anti-sapper weapon. I love both aspects of the Homewrecker, but the weapon is just really schizophrenic as it is.

'Pushback resistance from Sentries when active' would be a great bonus trait for the anti-sentry Homewrecker. I don't really know what bonus trait(s) the anti-sapper one should have.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, since it has both aspects now, it doesn't need a buff or nerf.
You guys are trying to fix something that isn't broken.

My two cents: If the Sentry is active, burnt it down or do a Sentry rodeo/walk in circles around the Sentry while using the Homewrecker (it's hard, but works). How often does a Pyroget Ubered to take down a Sentry(nest) anyway? From my experience, barely. Medics rather stick to Soldiers, Demomen or Heavies for that.
However, when you see an Engineer redeploying a Sentry, the Homewrecker destroys the Sentry so fast, the Engineer doesn't stand a chance.

[Deodorant]

[QUOTE=DatWut?;41081802]Honestly, since it has both aspects now, it doesn't need a buff or nerf.
You guys are trying to fix something that isn't broken.

My two cents: If the Sentry is active, burnt it down or do a Sentry rodeo/walk in circles around the Sentry while using the Homewrecker (it's hard, but works). How often does a Pyroget Ubered to take down a Sentry(nest) anyway? From my experience, barely. Medics rather stick to Soldiers, Demomen or Heavies for that.
However, when you see an Engineer redeploying a Sentry, the Homewrecker destroys the Sentry so fast, the Engineer doesn't stand a chance.[/QUOTE]
The problem, as I see it, is that it [I]has[/I] both aspects. The weapon has two completely different utilities designed for completely different playstyles. The sapper removal is most useful to Pybros who hang around friendly territory, spychecking and guarding sentry nests. The damage bonus against buildings is most useful for Pyros on or beyond the frontlines, who regularly comes across enemy buildings and proceeds to suicidally bumrush them. It's a more or less balanced weapon, but it's balanced by being only half-good at both of those two things. It's like... I don't know.. If the Gunboats and Buff Banner got removed from the game and replaced with an item that reduces RJ self-damage with 30% and can be charged to minicrit-boost allies for 5 seconds. Two weapons that fully commit to one utility each makes so much more sense.

I've used the Homewrecker for like 70% of my Pyro playtime, and it always felt like a waste of potential. Because I played offensively I only got to remove sappers on the rare occasions when I spawned just as a teleporter was being sapped. And on the even rarer occasions when I saw a sentry being deployed in bumrush range, I basically always got stopped by the knockback mid-rush and died. I have switched to the Powerjack since and now I'm actually doing pretty well, but I'd love to get a sentry-wrecking tool that didn't feel like a waste of my melee slot.

[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/4/4a/Item_icon_Homewrecker.png/100px-Item_icon_Homewrecker.png[/img]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Damage removes Sappers
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] +200% likeliness of Pyro/Engie slashfics
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -25% damage vs players

[img]http://i.imm.io/19AXQ.png[/img]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] 100% damage vs buildings
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] 45% Pushback resistance from Sentries when active
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -25% damage vs players

Iunno.

[Kibbleknight]

personally, i think the homewrecker is already fine as is, and doesnt need splitting. However i do agree that there should be some sort of knockback negator by sentries.

[Bynine]

[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/c/c9/Item_icon_Big_Earner.png/100px-Item_icon_Big_Earner.png[/IMG]

[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Refills all cloak and ammo on kill
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/img] (HIDDEN ATTRIBUTE: If wearing Dead Ringer, only restores 50% cloak)
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -25 max health on wearer

[R.M.T.B.]

[QUOTE=Bynine;41087017][IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/c/c9/Item_icon_Big_Earner.png/100px-Item_icon_Big_Earner.png[/IMG]

[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Refills all cloak and ammo on kill
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/img] (HIDDEN ATTRIBUTE: If wearing Dead Ringer, only restores 50% cloak)
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -25 max health on wearer[/QUOTE]

Sadly I usually use the dead ringer in MVM....

[kariko]

[QUOTE=theharribokid;41069985]I fell like damage resistance is not what it need but a pushback resistance, not too much though, you shouldn't be able to run directly at it and make it to the sentry, but getting the drop on it you should be able to stay standing next to it for long enough to hit it 2 or 3 times.

my stats would be:
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/4/4a/Item_icon_Homewrecker.png/100px-Item_icon_Homewrecker.png[/img]
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] 100% damage vs buildings
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/15px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] 20% Pushback resistance from Sentries when active
[IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/IMG] Damage removes Sappers
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/15px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -25% damage vs players[/QUOTE]

Yeah when I said sentry resistance I meant pushback rather than damage cause that would be kind of unfair for a little pyro to have the ability to take lots of bullets for the team.

[theharribokid]

[QUOTE=Bynine;41087017][IMG]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/c/c9/Item_icon_Big_Earner.png/100px-Item_icon_Big_Earner.png[/IMG]

[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Pictogram_plus.png/16px-Pictogram_plus.png[/img] Refills all cloak and ammo on kill
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/fd/Pictogram_info.png/15px-Pictogram_info.png[/img] (HIDDEN ATTRIBUTE: If wearing Dead Ringer, only restores 50% cloak)
[img]http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/6/60/Pictogram_minus.png/16px-Pictogram_minus.png[/img] -25 max health on wearer[/QUOTE]

Having a hidden attribute that directly goes against a written rule sounds like a really stupid idea and will just make people rage and/or think the weapon is broken and/or bugged.

How about if it restored cloak but not instantly, like gently regen the amount of cloak it would have taken to fill the bar. That way you could still cloak with the IW instantly as you'd have a tiny bit to start the second you killed but wouldn't allow DR spies to uncloak,backstab,cloak in a perfect cycle.

[PSI Guy]

How about we rework the Homewrecker not to destroy sappers and just admit it's another failure of a weapon from the time where ideas like the Tribalman's Shiv, Scotsman's Skullcutter and Dalokohs Bar were considered acceptable?

[Psychopath]

[QUOTE=theharribokid;41089569]Having a hidden attribute that directly goes against a written rule sounds like a really stupid idea and will just make people rage and/or think the weapon is broken and/or bugged.

How about if it restored cloak but not instantly, like gently regen the amount of cloak it would have taken to fill the bar. That way you could still cloak with the IW instantly as you'd have a tiny bit to start the second you killed but wouldn't allow DR spies to uncloak,backstab,cloak in a perfect cycle.[/QUOTE]

There's an easy way to remedy that:

On-kill, grant large ammo box to self.

Done.

It's hardcoded into the Dead Ringer that anything that grants cloak is capped to only give 30% cloak, even if it provides more.

Blame the DR, not me.